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ARTPOP Doesn't Have Much To Say

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Smother Em Eh
25 minutes ago, RenegAde2888 said:

I think joanne is weaker lyric wise tbh

It honestly is. ARTPOP many have had some cringey and weird lyrics, but atleast it was nothing short of interesting. 

Joanne’s lyrics are quite basic and actually more repetitive then ARTPOP’s (except Venus is quite repetitive) 

Dope’s lyrics alone sh*t on any song on Joanne, lyrically! 

Stream Gaga’s discography on Spotify! Come on LM’s
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Gov Hooka

Agreed. I feel like her original track list and vision would have satisfied her concept better but I think the whole label/team fiasco messed that up. I think Aura, ARTPOP, Applause, Do What U Want, and to a lesser extent Venus, G.U.Y., MJH, and Dope address the album’s theme as you stated it 

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Gov Hooka
32 minutes ago, RenegAde2888 said:

I think joanne is weaker lyric wise tbh

Facts. Gypsy alone is more authentic, when it comes to Gaga, lyrically than anything on Joanne.  

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Sanne Godijn

If There is one on ARTPOP that still hits right in the hart and song is dope i can feel gagas pain and sadness when i heard it 

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Ziggy
1 hour ago, heygirl said:

*unpopular opinion alert*

This has most probably already been brought up some time but it's really dawned on me more and more that though the concept of ARTPOP (the reverse Warholian experience, the artistic revolution through the potential of pop, putting the art before the pop, etc.) is often considered meaningful and genius (which I agree with), the content of the album itself is a long shot away from what Gaga describes it to be. We get fascinating interviews with Gaga reflecting on what the concept of ARTPOP is about but where on the album, except possibly the title track, is that concept truly manifested? It seems to me as if she makes it seem intellectual when, in fact, the music doesn't have much to say at all. 

This quote from the review by AllMusic is my thinking process in a nutshell: "The concept is artful and logical, yet ARTPOP never insinuates or settles in the subconscious; it always assaults, determined to make an impression even when all it has to say is that it doesn't have much to say."

And yes, I think the music is fun and a lot of it great. But that's besides the point.

Gtg:gaycat: 

ARTPOP was meant to be an immersive, multimedia project. The music was the “pop” part of it. She made it hyper vapid and hyper shallow in an attempt to then put it on a canvas of high art. It reverses Warhol and pop art (to Gaga; you can debate the success of it) because in the whole endeavor she tried to put art into the pop space via her collaborations whereas Warhol used pop to subvert the expectations of what fine art could be. Gaga wanted to use art to subvert what the definition of pop could be hence the “don’t call me a pop star” stuff. It relates to The Fame in that it’s supposed to be satirical.

 

again, how successful she was is arguable but that was her intent. The music itself *was* shallow, but purposefully so. She wanted to make a point through expressions of excess in drugs, sex, partying, etc.

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Edonis

Whew. okay.

I mixed opinions about the concept of ARTPOP and how it came to be, its themes, and why it was received the way that it was, but to cut to the chase I think disregarding what LG said, the album is mostly about her very strong experiences with sex and how physical and emotional intimacy affects an individual.

You see this on practically every single track on the album (with a few exceptions, and even those tracks have a very strong theme of passion or desire, not necessarily sexually, but emotionally---> Applause/Fashion!/Gypsy, but even then, I think the demos may have had more to do with this theme). Even the title track discusses her relationship between being a pop artist and making music for the sake of art while using lyrics related to sexuality and romance (I'll undress you, lover's kites are flown on beaches for public site, perverse hue, etc.). And when you look at the album with that perspective, you can kind of see that theme of wanting something strongly or experiencing something in an escapist way through sex or intimacy or love. Sure there's imagery of partying, and drugs, and extravagant high-camp pulsating stuff BUT I think those things are secondary to the story most of the songs relay to listeners. There are so many sex metaphors and references to intimacy and aphrodisiacs, and almost like...cries for help at times that the thematic label assigned to the record seems almost ludicrous imo.

I genuinely believe that this commentary on her intimacy was further supported by her more "stripped back" makeup looks we saw at the start of the era. The darker hair color, the simpler costumes, etc. (this changed of course, but I'm talking early in the album cycle prior to GUY or anything) I think LG really felt that this album was to be her most intimate thematically compared to TF/TFM/BTW because she was sharing something so intimate about herself which is...sex lol.

Personally, I think the record was asked to change in tone and in "meaning" at least PR-wise for a couple of reasons:

1. Label request

2. They didn't want to be compared to Madonna's Erotica. Remember, earlier that year was when the reductive comment was made and the post-super bowl shitshow that commenced

3. There was an expectation coming off of BTW that her music needed to be "deep" and have "substance" and maybe people in her camp felt the album was too "superficial" in concept or basic coming off of how prolific BTW was thematically and culturally.

4. LG was in a different place in her life around album release compared to when she worked on most of the songs in 2012. She was a lot angrier for business reasons, she had a lot of personal stuff going on, hip injury, etc.

I genuinely believe had the album been explained as a commentary on her difficult relationship with relationships and sex that it would have been received better. At least by critics.

Of course, this is all my opinion. I still think the album maintains a lot of the pop culture themes even amidst all of the sex and partying because that it what most of pop culture is so.

Sorry for the essay :bradley: I just have a lot of opinions about the good sis and this record.

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Edonis

@Bio omg I just saw your post and it's low key similar to mine. I kind of agree :udidnt:

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Dolce Vita
57 minutes ago, OG Gaga Stan said:

People have been posting this hot take for years and it never makes any sense.

Here's what I wrote the last time someone tried it:

You summed it up perfectly

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AJRocketMan

Some of the songs do have something to say but most of the songs don’t. That’s why I choose to see ARTPOP as a party record because when I look at it from that perspective I can enjoy the album much more. I suggest you all do the same.

ARTPOP was simply too ambitious to execute properly, especially at Gaga’s age and with her level of experience. I can see her tackling that idea effectively at 40 but not at 27! Think about it, she was 27 when the record came out, and she was 25 when she started on it. I believe she had no business making concept records at that point in her career, especially ones so elaborate. 

She should have just focused on making high quality party records instead. ARTPOP should have definitely been a singles album. Think of her True Blue to TFM and Born This Way’s Like A Virgin, and perhaps Do What U Want being Gaga’s La Isla Bonita (that song was destined to be a classic).

I’m a Bad Kid and I will survive

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LaLa

For me, the theme of ARTPOP is right there in the first track, loud and clear: "do you want to see the girl who lives behind the aura?". She is asking this of her lovers, the media, her fans, and even herself on songs like Swine and MJH. "If you knew the real me, would you love me?"

To me this is one of the fundamental questions of humanity, and a classic theme in art. And she's turned around and made fun pop music from it. ARTPOP! 

 

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littlepotter
1 hour ago, A Hybrid said:

First off, ARTPOP is neither about “an artistic revolution” nor “putting art before pop”. It’s a reverse Warholian experience, like you said, which means using classical art as a part of pop music. This doesn’t apply to more than half of the album, but still.

Not only does ARTPOP not have “much” to say, it doesn’t have ANYTHING to say. That’s the thing about postmodernism, also in literature: it doesn’t deal with social commentary, it uses art purely as art. Art doesn’t have to have a point to be good.

I’m not saying ARTPOP is good or bad here, just saying that you’re judging ARTPOP from the only angle where it’s not supposed to be judged. The hypothetical concept of integrating symbols of classical art into pop is not supposed have a social or political purpose.

I love this!

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Ziggy
1 hour ago, bxr said:

 

 

honest question: its genesis thesis was a “reverse warholian expedition” or “reverse warholian experience”? idk, just curious, since it seems to be focal to the conversation, and the terms are synonymous, but not entirely identical …

“expedition” is predicated upon the journey itself (which, establishes some sense of meaning by definition of progress from one point to another … so even in a postmodern sense, the journey itself could be considered a “point” and ARTPOP (and/or Gaga as the artist (or soup can, within context of the metaphor) in front of the canvas)) would be the vehicle or vessel … an “experience” on the other hand, is more aligned with the “doesn’t have to have a point,” as it doesn’t have to go anywhere necessarily to exist in a moment of immersive observation, or art for the sake of art, just creative expression or reflection maybe …

but, idk … it could be neither or both and mean anything and/or nothing at all …

 

OP: ARTPOP feels like spontaneous combustion of a supernova at the locus of fame’s crucible … it feels like the simultaneous pleasure and toil of spectacular carnage … but with some sense of imminent release or liberation … and, to me at least, that was translated through lyrics and instrumentation or production or sonic composition that conveyed strong imagery beyond immediate word play … but, again, that’s just my opinion in this moment, and could make no ostensible sense at all

Expedition. I know because it was even more ridiculous than saying experience and I was here for it lol

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ThatBinch

Completely disagree. There is a lot to unpack in this album. It may not be talking about immigration or gay marriage or religion, like BTW, but it touches on many interesting things, like declarations of female empowerment (Aura, MANiCURE), the ways women can use their sexuality as power (Aura, Venus, G.U.Y, MANiCURE, Donatella), the lies between men and women in relationships (Aura, Sexxx Dreams), the importance of art, family and love over money, fame and other shallow things (Jewels n Drugs, Donatella, Applause), the ways a person can hold onto their true selves when being physically or mentally abused (DWUW, Swine), the ways people fall into or overcome substance abuse (Dope, Mary Jane Holland), how people's perception of you doesn't matter if you're true to yourself (DWUW, Donatella), feeling alone on your journey through life but finding solace in knowing your family or lover is there to get you through it (Gypsy) and last but not least the relationship between art and pop and how it's a metaphor for people coming together through music (ARTPOP, Applause).

ARTPOP has a lot to say. There may be a couple of fun songs that don't sound like they're saying much, but even those contribute to the album's narrative and themes. It has as much to say as any of her other albums. If you can't find the meaning in it... well, that's too bad. 

Edited by ThatBinch
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Prismatic Monster

Actually agree. It's my favorite album of hers, so funny and danceable, it's really colorful! But still, I don't think it really expresses what Gaga wanted to express (she even said she was disappointed the album didn't come out as she wanted), aka the artistic and experimental concept, and actually listening to songs like venus and ARTPOP (lowkey aetheral and experimental imo) makes me wonder how the album could be if her artistic vision was fully realized (sonically talking, not only aesthetics wise). So yes, a funny and great album and my favorite album, but quality wise I'd say her other albums are better imp :shrug:

Stream Harleys in Hawaii while you're waiting for LG6 release in 2024~
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ice bear

i'm tired of defending ARTPOP, but ARTPOP deserves all the defense possible 

ice bear coolest bear // adopt a kitty

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