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Is Pop Being Misunderstood?


BleepBloop

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BleepBloop

Hello gworls.

The last few days I've been thinking a lot about Pop music and the stereotypes and also the bad reputation that's surrounding it, so I would like to discuss this matter!

Pop is often portrayed either as dumb or as the fast food of music. While I do get that mentality when thinking about pop music as "popular music", that's being played on the radio 24/7, it does stagger me when people brush off artists such as Lorde, Robyn, Charli XCX, Caroline Polachek and many more, when they see the word "pop" attached to them. So my question todays is: What does Pop mean to you and what differentiates "generic/mainstream pop" from "quality/intelligent pop"?

For me, pop is a genre that encapsulates all the actual subgenres of pop, such as avant-garde pop, electro pop and indie pop, dance pop, EDM and so on. When it comes to the quality of pop music, it's quite simple for me: well thought-out and smart lyrics,  mainly a layered and forward-looking production and  to be frank, not being heard on the radio lol. Good pop music needs a certain sensibility that not everyone has in posession.

And yes. Music is subjective, but if you're someone who can take music seriously and can be objective about it, then you'll understand: critical acclaim>charts. 

And no, I didn't wanna name artists that IMO make sh*t pop music, but the radio is full of them:emma:

Sorry for the long read, I just really wanted to hear people's opinions on this:)

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pop music to me is eclectic and fun and doesn't take itself too seriously. it takes inspiration from all sorts of places. personally, i'm a fan of hooks and pretty melodies and so i tend to gravitate towards pop more since a lot of pop songs have that structure and are catchy or easy-listening.

angels forever, forever angels
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I agree in that there are misconceptions regarding "pop" as a genre (many of which, like the disdain for "disco" as a genre, could be tied to misogyny and homophobia).

In the most general sense, it should be fair to acknowledge that there will be "good" pop music, as much as there is "bad" rock or classical or indie music. Digging in a little deeper, I think there is a misconstruing of what "good" music really is.

It's subjective, ultimately, but I think pop music is easily misidentified as dumb and simple because it relies on hooks, melodies, and catchiness. As if that isn't just a facet of music, but whatever.

In the most fake-deep way (like me, I guess, in my pretentious indie/rock/electronica phase), it's so easy (and popular) to brush off pop as shallow, inauthentic, and for the masses. I think there could easily be a re-evaluation of the existence of "guilty" pleasures, and why the enjoyment of pop music in particular is (maybe not as much now) considered so shameful.

3 points in and ready for more
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BleepBloop
2 minutes ago, Miel said:

I agree in that there are misconceptions regarding "pop" as a genre (many of which, like the disdain for "disco" as a genre, could be tied to misogyny and homophobia).

In the most general sense, it should be fair to acknowledge that there will be "good" pop music, as much as there is "bad" rock or classical or indie music. Digging in a little deeper, I think there is a misconstruing of what "good" music really is.

It's subjective, ultimately, but I think pop music is easily misidentified as dumb and simple because it relies on hooks, melodies, and catchiness. As if that isn't just a facet of music, but whatever.

In the most fake-deep way (like me, I guess, in my pretentious indie/rock/electronica phase), it's so easy (and popular) to brush off pop as shallow, inauthentic, and for the masses. I think there could easily be a re-evaluation of the existence of "guilty" pleasures, and why the enjoyment of pop music in particular is (maybe not as much now) considered so shameful.

Yes, I do agree with that. I won't go blaming anyone who chooses to listen to The Chainsmokers, but them saying that any of their songs aren't generic is not realistic. You can like something and know that it's generic

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there is pop, it's a gender, and there is mainstream. Most of the time the mainstream is into money. I don't wanna throw shade by saying commercial music... 

Pop is a point of view about people, and artistry. so yeah it's definitely misunderstood.

hello hello baby.
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FfFfFfFF

Writing a pop hit, a song that is simple yet memorable enough to catch attention is actually harder than writing songs in other genres. :flower: 

The truth is, just like any other genre, pop includes songs that are bad and songs that are good and songs that are bad. I would even go that far to say there are degrees of experimentality and innovation in particular pop songs/ releases/ artists.

The mindset that pop = trash  actually traces back to ''Disco sucks'' movement but I wouldn't be surprised there's some misogyny in it too since pop is a genre where are more females and the mindset is mostly embraced by rock fans which tend to be more men than females. I am really familiar to it because I have a lot of friends that listen to rock and it annoys me to be honest. :green:

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I think the idea that pop is just what's popular at the moment or that it's only synth pop is an aggravating view that I see constantly on this site (mainly to discredit Joanne). Pop music as an umbrella term is a mix between several other genres of music with an emphasis on lyrics, hooks, the verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus structure, etc. There is a formula that is associated with pop music that I think helps differentiate the genre from one sound to another. Pop can literally be anything. 

When it comes to misconceptions about pop music, I think a lot of it originates from the simplicity associated with some styles of pop and how some people view that as "watering-down" a genre it borrows from. The idea that it's cheap is mainly from people's pre-conceived notion that so and so artist is manufactured and inauthentic for whatever reason, which is weird to me. There are just as many inauthentic and manufactured artists in other genres just as they are in pop, but often time, people that are most critical to pop music tend to ignore those things. I think a lot of it is indeed linked to homophobia and misogyny like @Miel suggests. Female artists tend to be at the forefront of pop music since the 1960's and gay audiences tend to consume pop music (club culture and the disco-era definitely shaped this property). 

Idk, regardless of where LG's career goes, I will always be grateful for her album The Fame and how it helped reinvigorate my love for pop music and electronic sounds when I was too blind to give it any proper attention. 

Unfortunately this stigma against pop isn't likely to go away any time soon. Tying it back to Gaga, you see how people make comments like "I couldn't stand her music, but now I love ___ or ___". 

There's always going to be a 'dirty' association to pop, unfortunately. But it's whatever. I don't pay much attention to it anyways. 

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Pop has two meanings: Whatever is popular and it can be considered to also be its own style of music. For the latter, you know it when you hear it. For the former, rock can be pop, country can be pop, hip-hop can be pop, so on so forth. It just depends on what sound is ultimately popular. But actual pop music is very much just pop, generally appealing to the average person.

And just because I saw it mentioned, there is no such thing as universally "good" music. As much as I'd love for that to be so... it isn't.

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i don't think it should be brushed off as an inferior genre, and eventually people are going to see this, like they did with rock

but i can agree that is getting saturated, like disco, and it has to change somehow

my bet is the more sonically-diverse, less synthy and deeply introspective version of pop that lorde, lana del rey and now billie eilish popularized is going to stick arround and be a "next-big-thing" 

but i think and hope we still have good "current type of pop" acts going strong in the future. and for this let me selfishly recommend we appreciate the work Tove Lo is doing, she really is a "2010-esque" Pop Artist that can also do the "Lorde-ish" sound  (Stay High for example) and can coexist very well in an hypothetical world where this is the dominant type of music

ice heard one side from above
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StrawberryBlond

To me, pop is a sound that's mainstream and catchy and takes influences from other genres but makes them mainstream (pop rock, country pop, indie pop) for more mass consumption. Pop music also has some set standards when it comes to topic and general attitude. For example, most pop music is about sex, so if you're very anti sexuality, why would you make pop music? That's why I don't really understand the existence of Christian pop because the morals don't match up. Whenever I hear pop that's very sweet and innocent and childish, I always think, this isn't true pop, pop music isn't afraid of sex. That was the whole reason I was very against calling Taylor Swift's early material pop even though everyone else did because she didn't sing about sex and seemed to be almost disapproving of it and wanted to keep things appropriate for her young fans. So, I always thought of her more of a country artist and making 1989 was when she fully formed into pop because she completely abandoned the country edge to her work and was no longer against singing about sex.

Thing is, I'm actually not a big fan of the artists you listed but not because the word "pop" is attached to them but merely because I don't think their music is all that. I think it's sad when people judge a genre completely as opposed to the individual artist. I think pop music can be good as long as there's lots of lyrics (so many pop songs now are sadly devoid of that),  a powerful chorus and has some intelligence and diverse content in it. That's the same standard I apply to all music and I think pop should be no different.

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