Spiked on Sam Smith: "You're still a he"

[JINNOCIDE 3,692]

1 minute ago, Akiki said:

So we are obligated to be a "Say yes" to everything just because of that? 

And who decided for the LGBT fellows? Did we sign a treaty. Do you have an LGBT membership card? 

LGBT community is not an established organization. It's a group of people characterized by their sexuality. It's like being poor and rich, being black or white. None of those are homogeneous and think alike. They are connected by one single characteristic. 

I--  

yes the LGBT community isn't an organization and that's exactly why it should embrace people overtime

 

do you remember the term GLS? when the community only embraced gays, lesbians and people who were allies to the cause? missing someone? yeah, trans people weren't even explicit on the term. what did we do? we learned and grew from it. now we have a better term, and it can grow and change.

 

also LGBT isn't just about sexuality??? trans is about gender and how a person may not feel right in their body. it has nothing to do with sexuality

 

so saying non binary people shouldn't even be on the LGBT flag is an ignorant statement, yes

[Edonis 26,145]

1 minute ago, Akiki said:

But it bothers me to be in the same bag that non-binary people. Specially when their actions may have consequences for the LGBT. 

It shouldn't bother you. And what consequences? A homophobe or transphobe is still going to hate the collective LGBTQ+ community, regardless of non-binary inclusion (which it is). These concerns are all superfluous stuff to worry about. I advise you to go speak to some non-binary people and learn their story and history and why they are the way they are. Why these things are important to them, and why they deserve basic respect. It's not hard and there's zero excuse coming from another LGBT person. 

[JINNOCIDE 3,692]

if it's already hard for non binary people to get help from people within the community that says things like they shouldn't be part of the LGBT community and it might ruin/hurt the cause (LMAO ) could you imagine getting "social approval" for the majority of people who are straight and cis and don't even wanna get in this bandwagon of sexuality and gender identity?

 

yikes, I feel for you guys

[SlaeUrAnus 14,748]

17 pages... I- 

[Bear 7,515]

52 minutes ago, Hurem said:

 

Just because I’m gay doesn’t mean I’m accepting of everything not straight or cisgendered in this world.  And with the way that gays and SJWs have been acting lately, I’m actually finding myself on the other side of the story.

I'm not saying you should, I just don't understand how you can expect people to accept you for being the G in LGBTQ+ but then won't show the same respect back to the TQ+ part of it.

If your position was "I really dont get non-binary and I don't believe in it, but it doesn't affect me so I'm gunna treat these people in a way that makes them comfortable" I could almost understand it.

But to see gay men of all people go out of their way to call it "fake", "attention seeking" or a "mental illness" knowing full well what gays have been through in history is just unfathomable to me Like these same attitudes have supressed gay men throughout history and still do to this day, why on earth are we putting that back out into the world at another group? That's how I think anyway.

[LordEnigma 11,313]

3 hours ago, fathermonster said:

He still has a **** so factually anf scientifically he's a male. So...  I don't understand this non binary fad that everyone is jumping on. How can you turn round and say you're neither male or female 😂

Third gender has been a thing for many centuries. Maybe do a little research before calling it a "fad" 🤷🏻‍♂️

Do you believe pre-op trans women are still male?

[Miel 15,009]

That's... like, an act of violence, I think? Misgendering, especially one this aggressive, is the core of violence against people who are not cisgender.

 

[Miel 15,009]

It is LITERALLY crazy to me that so many people- in the case of this site, GAY men- are intentionally and wilfully ignorant regarding trans- and nonbinary- issues. 

[LordEnigma 11,313]

8 minutes ago, Miel said:

It is LITERALLY crazy to me that so many people- in the case of this site, GAY men- are intentionally and wilfully ignorant regarding trans- and nonbinary- issues. 

Honestly, I've viewed myself as non-binary for many years. But the reaction I've gotten from people has forced me to stay in the binary box and I honestly don't feel safe enough to express that side of me.

I expected there to be one or two people on this site calling it ridiculous but there's such a huge group rejecting it - it's hard to read and not get angry.

My thing, though, is that I understand the difference between someone misgendering me on accident versus someone doing it on purpose. I'd never expect anyone on the street to get it right - I'd just hope the people closest to me accept it.

But anyway, i think what's bothering most people is that they don't have a clear picture of what a non-binary person is while you can clearly come up with a picture in your head for female/male. Non-binary doesn't have a box - there's such a wide spectrum. Just wish people would say "I don't understand but teach me" rather than "I don't understand and here's my defense as to why you should get over it."

[Miel 15,009]

9 minutes ago, LordEnigma said:

Honestly, I've viewed myself as non-binary for many years. But the reaction I've gotten from people has forced me to stay in the binary box and I honestly don't feel safe enough to express that side of me.

I expected there to be one or two people on this site calling it ridiculous but there's such a huge group rejecting it - it's hard to read and not get angry.

My thing, though, is that I understand the difference between someone misgendering me on accident versus someone doing it on purpose. I'd never expect anyone on the street to get it right - I'd just hope the people closest to me accept it.

But anyway, i think what's bothering most people is that they don't have a clear picture of what a non-binary person is while you can clearly come up with a picture in your head for female/male. Non-binary doesn't have a box - there's such a wide spectrum. Just wish people would say "I don't understand but teach me" rather than "I don't understand and here's my defense as to why you should get over it."

Thank you, and I'm sorry.

It's just... there are so many explanations, from a scientific context and from a social context and from a historical context and from all of them combined, that explains the literal validity of identities outside of a binary. 

I think there's such a vehement and quick "anti-SJW" reaction present on this site, specifically regarding the whole "I'M GONNA GET ATTACKED IF I GENDER SOMEBODY WRONG LMAO". As if they aren't actively wanting to misgender somebody on purpose.

Black Trans Women have a rate of death that is, like, significantly higher than any demographic. Trans and NB People of Color are literally the core of the LGBT rights movement. And yet, all of a sudden gay men adopt archaic ideologies that put them in a position where they can discredit that? It's a shame.

You are right in that it would be ideal if people had a more sympathetic or even just a fairly inquisitive reaction out of it, where they know there is a space for learning (in science and academia, that's called "inquiry-based learning", so I hope people don't use that to back up their ignorance). Instead, there's hate.

edit: and back to your personal point, I wanted to reiterate that I'm sorry about your experiences regarding that. It's akin to many people's experiences of being "in the closet", but in an environment that is much more confusing and almost dangerous. I hope that you, and everybody else on here that feels the same way, will find an environment where that is not present.

[LordEnigma 11,313]

1 minute ago, Miel said:

Thank you, and I'm sorry.

It's just... there are so many explanations, from a scientific context and from a social context and from a historical context and from all of them combined, that explains the literal validity of identities outside of a binary. 

I think there's such a vehement and quick "anti-SJW" reaction present on this site, specifically regarding the whole "I'M GONNA GET ATTACKED IF I GENDER SOMEBODY WRONG LMAO". As if they aren't actively wanting to misgender somebody on purpose.

Black Trans Women have a rate of death that is, like, significantly higher than any demographic. Trans and NB People of Color are literally the core of the LGBT rights movement. And yet, all of a sudden gay men adopt archaic ideologies that put them in a position where they can discredit that? It's a shame.

You are right in that it would be ideal if people had a more sympathetic or even just a fairly inquisitive reaction out of it, where they know there is a space for learning (in science and academia, that's called "inquiry-based learning", so I hope people don't use that to back up their ignorance). Instead, there's hate.

I completely understand people who are misgendered and their reactions - it's terrifying to walk in public against social norms. Heck, I don't even walk close to my boyfriend in public because I'm scared people may say something or attack. For me, since I present as male in public - I don't expect workers or the public to refer to me as they/them. The only people I expect that of are the people I tell - which I haven't said/corrected in years cause it's just too much to unpack for me emotionally (I already deal with enough without gendering myself correctly).

At this point - the male/female binary is just ridiculous. There is such a spectrum that even the "manliest" man has feminine traits. But if you want to be referred to as he/him, there's no point in arguing. Gender is all by society and unfortunately sex is the deciding factor in all of this for the majority of people.

[Kapi09 2,462]

It is crazy...  If you look at some person you know if it is a boy or girl. When you want to talk with someone on street you dont ask about gender because you know it... And you know if you should use "he" or "she".

If he want to talk about himself in a diffrent way, it is ok. But we shouldnt force anyone to think in the same way. 

For me HE is a 100% men. 

[Battle 4 Ur Life 5,830]

I have no ideas what’s been going on in these 17 pages and frankly I don’t think I even want to but I just want to say that

I think this article is a piece of garbage and these people are not only ignorant but also arrogant to an extreme. trying to define what somebody else but yourself is requires a whole gallon of bigotry and I hope they get put in their place by celebs and the media.

this is disgusting and infuriating and if you agree with this article I feel sorry for you.

[fathermonster 1,438]

35 minutes ago, LordEnigma said:

Honestly, I've viewed myself as non-binary for many years. But the reaction I've gotten from people has forced me to stay in the binary box and I honestly don't feel safe enough to express that side of me.

I expected there to be one or two people on this site calling it ridiculous but there's such a huge group rejecting it - it's hard to read and not get angry.

My thing, though, is that I understand the difference between someone misgendering me on accident versus someone doing it on purpose. I'd never expect anyone on the street to get it right - I'd just hope the people closest to me accept it.

But anyway, i think what's bothering most people is that they don't have a clear picture of what a non-binary person is while you can clearly come up with a picture in your head for female/male. Non-binary doesn't have a box - there's such a wide spectrum. Just wish people would say "I don't understand but teach me" rather than "I don't understand and here's my defense as to why you should get over it."

You want people to understand this "third gender" but don't post any information or experience about it. Interesting.  please tell us what this means. I'm curious to know what the third gender is and what if feels like to be part of it. 

[TheQueenLG 2,469]

7 hours ago, kyanewest said:

Are we gonna pretend like women are as strong physically as men?  There are some differences between men and women that science backed up. Of course the ideas that women should do x y z and men do x y z are false, but still, there's a difference between the body of a man and the body of a woman. 

Look up a straw man logical fallacy....