Taylor earns her highest career peaks in Europe with Lover

[Adrenaliner 3,809]

1 hour ago, Gizem said:

Did you just underestimate the 53k in UK? Second biggest female debut of the year? And biggest was 65k. Sales dropped. Even Ed go from 600k to 120k. And she didn't even put Reputation to stream platforms. She did with lover. Your "she goes dowm narrative doesn't work. Sorry.

So you say that she was not able to fill stadiums in UK because of no demand at 1989 era, did she fill 2 wembley and 2 croke park because of reputation hype, 1/4 selling album of 1989 there?  Even her 1989 tour was mainly arenas at USA. Read her last interview and you will understand why it was arenas. 

What is pathetic? Grossing over 70 million with non-US dates which more than some biggest internatiol stars's(artists you named) total tour gross? 

At speak now, her most local era, she filled multiple arenas at Europe. And prove me which dates didn't sell out? You said you can confirm it. I am waiting. Only Italy date didn't sell out. She grossed 800k even in Norway. 

She jumped from 15k UK and 11k Ireland date in 1989 to Wembley and Croke park at Rep. She played at 12k stadiums in Germany and Netherlands too. She will probably jump to stadiums there too. Don't worry.  Tour success doesn't go with current success. This is why U2 and Rolling Stones still fill stadiums. 

Did you just name Justin Bieber, Ariana Grande, Drake, Rihanna etc.    Taylor played at Tokyo Dome at 2 times and broke the record of Madonna as Highest grossing concert in Asia with 7.5 million each night. She played 3/4 biggest stadiums in Oceania. She is highest grossing female in Canada Rogerts Centre. Rihanna played to half empty wembley, Ariana didn't even play to stadium in her career, Justin cancelled stadium part of her tour(his first stadium leg), Drake played to arenas didn't sell out even at her home country Canada. 

"she would be nothing without America" She has diamond album in Australia, 4 platinum album in UK, Red sold 600k there too, total 3 million sales, she has 9 platinum album at Philippines, She sold 1.5 million album sales at Japan with biggest concert for international artist, 4 album with 400k sales at Canada, 2 album 3× diamond in China which is highest cercification there, Lover already 1.5× diamond there. 

Top 10 music country according to IFPI are USA, Japan, UK, Germany, France, Australia, China, Brazil, Canada, Korea. If you left the markets you say, you left %40 of this list. And she is huge at Japan and China which you didn't mention. Total of 60 percentage. More than %75 with market sizes. 

Please stop embrassing yourself. 

yas drag her sis 

[Spock 20,292]

25 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Oh my God, you clearly have no idea how concert grosses work. I was just explaining this above. How sell-outs are recorded on Wikipedia are inaccurate. An artist no longer has to sell every last ticket to be a sell-out these days, they just have to sell enough tickets according to an algorithm present for each venue. The bigger the venue, the higher the expectation to sell more tickets. If you look up the capacity of these venues you quoted, you'll see that they hold way more than what she sold, particularly the Spanish one, where she only filled a quarter of the venue but it was bizarrely still reported as sold out. Learn how this stuff works before trying to school me. And I mean venues less than 10k are tiny venues. The majority of international dates she performed in were as such. You understand there are some acts who won't even tour in a country if their biggest arena is less than 13k, right? That was the attitude she took from Red onwards but before then, she was just desperate to perform anywhere who'd have her, as evidenced by these tragic 4-figure attendences. And I never said the 1989 tour wasn't sold out, I was talking purely about Speak Now's.

If she doesn't want to tour internationally, then she's a fool and is letting her fans down. And has some ego to think only English speaking countries truly matter and that as long as you're big in America, that's all that matters.

I have every right to state my opinion on her. I pride myself on stating facts. I have never misrepresented Taylor or said she was flopping when she wasn't. I just deal with the facts and how the industry works. Gaga's downfall in 2013 woke me up to how I was living in a fantasy world where people are successful forever. It led me to research the history of artist's careers and examine common patterns to determine where and when downfalls happen and realised that no one can be huge forever. You Taylor fans need to watch your attitude because the laugh will be on you one day. I thought Taylor fans who also liked Gaga would know better than to think their fave is untouchable.

I do know how it works thank you, but what you're saying makes absolutely no sense. A sold out show is a sold out show, regardless of factors like the ones you mention, actual attendance vs ticket sales, or scalper effects. But of course, ethical and informed music critic Strawberry Blond is going to break the wheel of the music industry and expose them for being liars, because every sold out show reported in the last 20 years has been a LIE and a music industry cover up because of the algorithm!!1!!!!1 The GP just has to know this and know that they've been lied to!

Please. This is just you trying to demerit Taylor again. I didn't see you spewing this crap when talking about Lana's sold out shows, which by the way, the comparison makes NO SENSE because Lana is an established touring act in Europe in 2019 with like six albums, and in 2011 Taylor was just trying to break into Europe. Like, I seriously cannot believe you're that deluded enough to think that such a comparison proves anything and makes sense.

The fact that Taylor doesn't want to tour and how that makes fans feel is irrelevant and an entirely different discussion that this one. What is relevant, however, is that Taylor has power and touring demand internationally. Out of the 12 shows in the European leg of the Speak Now World Tour, 9 were reported sold out. Yes, SOLD OUT, regardless of the algorithm that conveniently is only mentioned when Taylor is involved. so SEETHE.

I'm not a blind stan. I call on Taylor's bullshit when I have to and I know that no one stays on top forever. I said my piece during the ME! era. My current attitude has nothing to do with thinking she's untouchable (because she isn't) but with people like you who are borderline trolling and come into Taylor threads, not stating facts, but misrepresenting and twisting the truth. Practically anyone that's ever quoted you has called you out on that and your proven inability to be objective.

oh and also

33 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

And I never said the 1989 tour wasn't sold out, I was talking purely about Speak Now's.

 

2 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

1989 was her most successful era in the UK (over 1m copies sold, none of her other albums come close) and yet she only did 2 arena dates (which she couldn't even sell out to full capacity) and a festival date.

 

[Mana Mahad 1,749]

1 hour ago, Gizem said:

"Pure sales" is combined sales of physical and dijital sales. 

Looks like you don't know your country enough. You said she will hardly fill wembley stadium but she easily filled 2 wembley date back to back. This is why ı choose to go with numbers and it says she had second biggest female debut of the year. 

Of course public will start to lose interest. She is at her 13. year of her career. This doesn't mean she will hardly fill stadiums. 

She sold 2.8 million tickets worldwide. Last tour 800k tickets were from outside of USA with only 13 concert. It was not about gross, her attendance was huge. 

Taylor sold 18 million albums outside of USA, more than Ariana Grande, Justin Bieber or Drake's ww sales.  At least speak with knowledge instead of throwing popular artists names. 

Madonna and Beyonce filled stadiums after their peak and they were not rock bands. 

Who said she will keep selling 1 million in China. Even if she doesn't sell from now on, lover is already diamond and no international artist has diamond album there. 

Name me 3 country artist filled arenas hold 4 number attendance in Europe in her 3. era so you can drag this numbers... 

No, capacity doesn't work like this. Taylor played 80k capatiy stadiums in USA but there was 55-60k attendance. Weren't they sold out? No. Her stages are big and close the part of stage. The capacity you are talking about is 360 percentage. Taylor doesn't play 360 tours. Make it make sense. 

Bilboard tour numbers are there. She sold out every arena in Europe at speak now tour except Italy. If you say otherwise, come with receipts instead of your own ways of thinking. 

She has more than enough demand to tour USA, Canada, UK, Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, Ireland, China, Japan, Singapure, Philippines, Endonesia,Mexico, Brazil, Australia and New Zealand. And this is MORE THAN ENOUGH. And if she change her idea from arena tour to stadium one, you will see this tour. 

 

SUFFER

[davidtaylor 677]

I'm getting so confused how people are calling this a 'flop era' where are your sales to be calling her a flop? 

[Serial Chiller 8,044]

She’s always been huge in Asia idk why she just started taking off in Europe lol

[Mana Mahad 1,749]

#1 in Australia with the biggest debut of the year 

#1 in New Zealand 

[TheCureinMalibu 45,913]

15 minutes ago, Mana Mahad said:

#1 in Australia with the biggest debut of the year 

#1 in New Zealand 

do you know the exact sales for Aus? i need it for science.

[Ziggy 14,017]

56 minutes ago, Serial Chiller said:

She’s always been huge in Asia idk why she just started taking off in Europe lol

Because Europe’s a finnicky market that does import some music, but also makes a lot of their own so the trends are not always concurrent. Also doesn’t help her that she started as a very American act and there wasn’t a great deal of investment overseas. For Europe, you really need to try if you’re going to break through vs Asia, I find, is always very willing to find new acts *and* loves a blond, pretty white girl while Europe is like, “k...groundbreaking.”

[Adrenaliner 3,809]

1 hour ago, Serial Chiller said:

She’s always been huge in Asia idk why she just started taking off in Europe lol

Her singles has been big here since Red, but now I see that also her albums are getting the recognition they deserve

[StrawberryBlond 15,560]

19 hours ago, Gizem said:

"Pure sales" is combined sales of physical and dijital sales. 

Looks like you don't know your country enough. You said she will hardly fill wembley stadium but she easily filled 2 wembley date back to back. This is why ı choose to go with numbers and it says she had second biggest female debut of the year. 

Of course public will start to lose interest. She is at her 13. year of her career. This doesn't mean she will hardly fill stadiums. 

She sold 2.8 million tickets worldwide. Last tour 800k tickets were from outside of USA with only 13 concert. It was not about gross, her attendance was huge. 

Taylor sold 18 million albums outside of USA, more than Ariana Grande, Justin Bieber or Drake's ww sales.  At least speak with knowledge instead of throwing popular artists names. 

Madonna and Beyonce filled stadiums after their peak and they were not rock bands. 

Who said she will keep selling 1 million in China. Even if she doesn't sell from now on, lover is already diamond and no international artist has diamond album there. 

Name me 3 country artist filled arenas hold 4 number attendance in Europe in her 3. era so you can drag this numbers... 

No, capacity doesn't work like this. Taylor played 80k capatiy stadiums in USA but there was 55-60k attendance. Weren't they sold out? No. Her stages are big and close the part of stage. The capacity you are talking about is 360 percentage. Taylor doesn't play 360 tours. Make it make sense. 

Bilboard tour numbers are there. She sold out every arena in Europe at speak now tour except Italy. If you say otherwise, come with receipts instead of your own ways of thinking. 

She has more than enough demand to tour USA, Canada, UK, Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, Ireland, China, Japan, Singapure, Philippines, Endonesia,Mexico, Brazil, Australia and New Zealand. And this is MORE THAN ENOUGH. And if she change her idea from arena tour to stadium one, you will see this tour.

But I thought that did include digital sales, so I don't know why they were separated.

I didn't say she wouldn't sell Wembley. I was talking about how she wouldn't have demand for dates all over the UK and she didn't, she just went to Manchester and London, 2 dates at each. Someone with over 1m sales have easily done more concerts than that and outsold them better.

Of course she had a lot of sales because she kept her international concerts super exclusive. That means that people have to travel and they all crowd onto one date. If you have one date for an entire country, every fan from all over will descend on that date. Do dates up and down the country and your individual attendences and grosses will be spread and therefore, lower.

But Taylor doesn't have as many worldwide hit singles as other artists. Fact is that there's still loads of people who have no idea who Taylor is or can name any of her songs but they can name the others. That is the ultimate sign of worldwide reach.

Beyonce and Madonna are better at worldwide reach, though. And I didn't say no popstar could do this but they have to expand their scope and really develop themselves to do so. Taylor's too much in her comfort zone.

Your quote about country artists makes little to no sense, but I think you're asking me "name a country artist who had more than a 4-figure attendence per show for their third album's era"? Well, I'm just about to give you the biggest serving of all - Shania Twain. Her third album, Come On Over, was her biggest seller and is one of the biggest sellers of all time and she had a 165 date world tour that went to the UK and Australia internationally. While I can't seem to get the figures for those shows (tours back then never reported all indiviudal grosses), seeing how she performed in much bigger arenas than Taylor did with Speak Now, I'd be willing to bet she sold more. Country music can sell internationally, you just have to sell it right.

I wasn't talking about 360 stages, I was talking about end stage shows. Those figures I quoted were end stage figures. It makes sense, you just don't want it to.

It's not "my own way of thinking," it's how the industry works. You don't have to sell out every show to be considered sold out, you just have to sell enough according to each venue's standards. I don't know how many times I can repeat it. Oslo, Birmingham and London were the only dates that had decent figures that were close to a proper sell-out but everywhere else had really low standards. Milan obviously wasn't budging with its set standard. Maybe the other ones were paid off to say it was a sell-out when most of them were only half full? Don't judge it by Billboard figures. Look up the actual end stage capacities of these arenas and then look at how much she sold and you'll realise how loose the term "sell out" is these days. If you still don't believe me, read the reply I said to the person below me where I explain how Gaga played the same venues as Taylor, sold more tickets and is labelled sold out as well, therefore, the standards for Taylor were set lower, probably because her staging wasn't as expensive back then.

If she has the demand there, why doesn't she go, then? Makes no sense. My theory is that her ego's so big that she thinks she's too good for small venues. You'll notice from Red and onwards, she only tours at large arenas at the very least, which is why her only European dates were in London and Berlin - she didn't have the demand to do large arenas anywhere else. God forbid she performs at a 9k capacity arena these days, even if she could sell it out. 13k seems to be her limit, anything else is beneath her.

18 hours ago, Spock said:

I do know how it works thank you, but what you're saying makes absolutely no sense. A sold out show is a sold out show, regardless of factors like the ones you mention, actual attendance vs ticket sales, or scalper effects. But of course, ethical and informed music critic Strawberry Blond is going to break the wheel of the music industry and expose them for being liars, because every sold out show reported in the last 20 years has been a LIE and a music industry cover up because of the algorithm!!1!!!!1 The GP just has to know this and know that they've been lied to!

Please. This is just you trying to demerit Taylor again. I didn't see you spewing this crap when talking about Lana's sold out shows, which by the way, the comparison makes NO SENSE because Lana is an established touring act in Europe in 2019 with like six albums, and in 2011 Taylor was just trying to break into Europe. Like, I seriously cannot believe you're that deluded enough to think that such a comparison proves anything and makes sense.

The fact that Taylor doesn't want to tour and how that makes fans feel is irrelevant and an entirely different discussion that this one. What is relevant, however, is that Taylor has power and touring demand internationally. Out of the 12 shows in the European leg of the Speak Now World Tour, 9 were reported sold out. Yes, SOLD OUT, regardless of the algorithm that conveniently is only mentioned when Taylor is involved. so SEETHE.

I'm not a blind stan. I call on Taylor's bullshit when I have to and I know that no one stays on top forever. I said my piece during the ME! era. My current attitude has nothing to do with thinking she's untouchable (because she isn't) but with people like you who are borderline trolling and come into Taylor threads, not stating facts, but misrepresenting and twisting the truth. Practically anyone that's ever quoted you has called you out on that and your proven inability to be objective.

oh and also

Yes, a sold out show is still a sold out show, but not by technical standards. I'm just trying to inform those who are unware of how the industry changed. When sales started going down, standards changed to ensure that lesser sold concerts could still be recorded as sell outs, to protect the ego of artists and labels. If you look at tours around the 90's and before, you'll barely see any 100% sell outs because you had to actually sell every ticket to be a sell out back then. Now it's a case of "there's enough here so it seems sold out and the arena's re-couped its costs so call it a sell-out." I'm not trying to be a snooty critic when I say this, I'm just telling you the truth.

Actually, I do say this stuff for my faves as well. Of course I know that some Lana's and Gaga's dates were not properly sold out. For BTWB, there is no way those Eastern European dates were sold out like claimed - some of them were held at open air festival grounds and yet 16k and 12k is a sell-out? And I was at that second London date and can confirm that that place was maybe 70-75% full yet it was sold out. As for Lana, same - I've been to her concerts and they make the arena smaller by putting curtains around the areas that didn't sell so the place seems much smaller to cover up all the unsold areas. Still gets labelled sold out, however. And Lana sold out better than Taylor in arenas with her debut, I was there to witness that. And by the way, here's some stats to prove that Taylor's apparent sell outs were just the result of really low standards - she sold 3,421 tickets in Italy which was only 1,164 tickets away from a sell-out according to Billboard...Gaga played the same venue with the Joanne tour and sold 11,170 tickets and that was labelled as a sell-out (Lana also sold out the same venue last year, with 11,853 tickets). Now, tell me how Taylor was apparently just 1,164 tickets away from selling out the same venue with her measly 3,241 ticket gross? And also tell me how an arena that can hold over 11k people would look remotely impressive or anywhere near sold old with just over 3k people in it? Gaga also played some of the other same venues she played and it's the same story. Taylor "sold out" Manchester Arena with 10,488 tickets...Gaga sold out that arena with 15,543 tickets with BTWB. Taylor "sold out" Odessy Arena with 8,058 tickets...Gaga sold out that arena with 10,038 tickets with MB. Taylor "sold out" O2 Arena Dublin with 8,681 tickets...Gaga sold out that arena with 11,497 tickets with Artrave. Explain. I will not "SEETHE" as I know I'm right and you're obstinately refusing to acknowledge the truth: algorithms exist, standards differ according to cost of stage and lower sellouts were introduced to placate artist's big egos.

I do state facts, even when they're hard to say and I'm not biased. It is others who refuse to be objective and are willing to trust biased celebrity sources instead of figures and patterns laid out in front of them.

When I said that line, I was referring to the current method of recording sellouts, the "not sold out technically but recorded as sold out" mentality. I thought it was obvious when I was talking technically and reluctantly accepting the system.

17 hours ago, Mana Mahad said:

SUFFER

Stop using that gif and acting smug. I don't feel the least bit diminished because everyone else seems to only talk in corrupted Billboard figures instead of looking at how the industry records sellouts these days and how it's all a pile of BS at the end of the day but we accept it.

[BornAsUnic0rn 2,245]

Yes, Taylor!! Talent always wins.

 

seeing this woman succeed is so satisfying to me. the perfect example of talent, hard work, being smart and savvy and staying kind hearted & true to yourself pays off.

 

Off topic: This one user here scares the **** out of me. All this going off and collecting all these recipes just to twist them, undermine her success, and her continuously outdoing all of her peers and laugh at her for only doing well in most of the world. I don’t get it, what’s wrong with him? Who hurt him? Why undermine a woman’s success and worth?

 

Calling Taylor a flop when she’s still steamrolling over the whole pop sphere just because she can’t exactly  top her achievements in a time when albums literally DON’T SELL while she still does 1,2-6mio first week world wide.. that just makes your faves look even weaker. Honey, you need to calm down. 

[StrawberryBlond 15,560]

12 minutes ago, BornAsUnic0rn said:

Off topic: This one user here scares the **** out of me. All this going off and collecting all these recipes just to twist them, undermine her success, and her continuously outdoing all of her peers and laugh at her for only doing well in most of the world. I don’t get it, what’s wrong with him? Who hurt him? Why undermine a woman’s success and worth?

 

Calling Taylor a flop when she’s still steamrolling over the whole pop sphere just because she can’t exactly  top her achievements in a time when albums literally DON’T SELL while she still does 1,2-6mio first week world wide.. that just makes your faves look even weaker. Honey, you need to calm down. 

She's no longer doing well in most of the world and hasn't since 1989. The rest of the world slowly moved on from her after that, as evidenced by single and album sales. I'm a she and there's nothing wrong with me and no one hurt me, I'm just very passionate about music and like to see the best win. And I'm very critical of any tricks in the industry to make artists look better or how we drop our standards to maintain that our faves are still winning in tough times. I'm a feminist, I'm not saying anything bad against Taylor because she's a woman, I'm just focusing on her music and the truth of a situation. I'm just as harsh on male artists. And are you suggesting that it's ok to undermine a man's success and worth?

It shouldn't matter that albums aren't selling right now - if you're a big name, you should be the exception. If you sell Taylor's numbers, of course we set the bar higher in your case. It's the double edged sword of being that famous. I'm just highly critical of any claims that Taylor is still as successful as ever when she's never been able to touch the success of 1989 yet and is clearly on a steady downfall. Those numbers are so high compared to audience interest in her singles that they will tail off sharply in the coming weeks and if there's no other hits, continue to drop like a stone.

[BornAsUnic0rn 2,245]

1 minute ago, StrawberryBlond said:

She's no longer doing well in most of the world and hasn't since 1989. The rest of the world slowly moved on from her after that, as evidenced by single and album sales. I'm a she and there's nothing wrong with me and no one hurt me, I'm just very passionate about music and like to see the best win. And I'm very critical of any tricks in the industry to make artists look better or how we drop our standards to maintain that our faves are still winning in tough times. I'm a feminist, I'm not saying anything bad against Taylor because she's a woman, I'm just focusing on her music and the truth of a situation. I'm just as harsh on male artists. And are you suggesting that it's ok to undermine a man's success and worth?

It shouldn't matter that albums aren't selling right now - if you're a big name, you should be the exception. If you sell Taylor's numbers, of course we set the bar higher in your case. It's the double edged sword of being that famous. I'm just highly critical of any claims that Taylor is still as successful as ever when she's never been able to touch the success of 1989 yet and is clearly on a steady downfall. Those numbers are so high compared to audience interest in her singles that they will tail off sharply in the coming weeks and if there's no other hits, continue to drop like a stone.

Who of your faves is being the exception tho? For the standard that is NOW, Taylor is literally the exception. And this hate train you and others are on needs to stop. 

 

Bohooo she’s just doing amazing, she isn’t doing exceptional. What a flop.

In 2019 she outdid Gaga’s last 4 records, Lana’s whole album circles are what Taylor’s moderate single eras are. 

The problem IS you. Because you hold the biggest artists to unsubstainable standards, not realizing that in your theory and reasoning EVERY artist is losing and flopping. Because YOU nitpick an area where an artist isn’t doing exceptional, and when he/she is you twist it till it isn’t. And you go on and cherrypick a single achievement where another artist did way better. So you frankensteined (see what i did there?) a monster full of crazy successes and achievements no one should ever be compared to and hold it against (in this case) Taylor, just to tear her achievements down. and the question is.. WHY? 

You seen how Gaga’s downfall happened while she still outdid peers with an awful mess of an era. So why are you actively feeding this narrative with Taylor? 

Clearly you are unhappy with yourself and you can’t stand seeing people succeed. 

 

 

[Andrea B 16,761]

On 8/30/2019 at 6:59 AM, gagannefrancc said:

well considering the fact this IS her first top 5 entry there, so basically she's local. at least now, she's not quite anymore. let's celebrate to that. 

she's never been local, she's huge in Asia. 

[Gizem 56]

1 hour ago, StrawberryBlond said:

But I thought that did include digital sales, so I don't know why they were separated.

I didn't say she wouldn't sell Wembley. I was talking about how she wouldn't have demand for dates all over the UK and she didn't, she just went to Manchester and London, 2 dates at each. Someone with over 1m sales have easily done more concerts than that and outsold them better.

Of course she had a lot of sales because she kept her international concerts super exclusive. That means that people have to travel and they all crowd onto one date. If you have one date for an entire country, every fan from all over will descend on that date. Do dates up and down the country and your individual attendences and grosses will be spread and therefore, lower.

But Taylor doesn't have as many worldwide hit singles as other artists. Fact is that there's still loads of people who have no idea who Taylor is or can name any of her songs but they can name the others. That is the ultimate sign of worldwide reach.

Beyonce and Madonna are better at worldwide reach, though. And I didn't say no popstar could do this but they have to expand their scope and really develop themselves to do so. Taylor's too much in her comfort zone.

Your quote about country artists makes little to no sense, but I think you're asking me "name a country artist who had more than a 4-figure attendence per show for their third album's era"? Well, I'm just about to give you the biggest serving of all - Shania Twain. Her third album, Come On Over, was her biggest seller and is one of the biggest sellers of all time and she had a 165 date world tour that went to the UK and Australia internationally. While I can't seem to get the figures for those shows (tours back then never reported all indiviudal grosses), seeing how she performed in much bigger arenas than Taylor did with Speak Now, I'd be willing to bet she sold more. Country music can sell internationally, you just have to sell it right.

I wasn't talking about 360 stages, I was talking about end stage shows. Those figures I quoted were end stage figures. It makes sense, you just don't want it to.

It's not "my own way of thinking," it's how the industry works. You don't have to sell out every show to be considered sold out, you just have to sell enough according to each venue's standards. I don't know how many times I can repeat it. Oslo, Birmingham and London were the only dates that had decent figures that were close to a proper sell-out but everywhere else had really low standards. Milan obviously wasn't budging with its set standard. Maybe the other ones were paid off to say it was a sell-out when most of them were only half full? Don't judge it by Billboard figures. Look up the actual end stage capacities of these arenas and then look at how much she sold and you'll realise how loose the term "sell out" is these days. If you still don't believe me, read the reply I said to the person below me where I explain how Gaga played the same venues as Taylor, sold more tickets and is labelled sold out as well, therefore, the standards for Taylor were set lower, probably because her staging wasn't as expensive back then.

If she has the demand there, why doesn't she go, then? Makes no sense. My theory is that her ego's so big that she thinks she's too good for small venues. You'll notice from Red and onwards, she only tours at large arenas at the very least, which is why her only European dates were in London and Berlin - she didn't have the demand to do large arenas anywhere else. God forbid she performs at a 9k capacity arena these days, even if she could sell it out. 13k seems to be her limit, anything else is beneath her.

Yes, a sold out show is still a sold out show, but not by technical standards. I'm just trying to inform those who are unware of how the industry changed. When sales started going down, standards changed to ensure that lesser sold concerts could still be recorded as sell outs, to protect the ego of artists and labels. If you look at tours around the 90's and before, you'll barely see any 100% sell outs because you had to actually sell every ticket to be a sell out back then. Now it's a case of "there's enough here so it seems sold out and the arena's re-couped its costs so call it a sell-out." I'm not trying to be a snooty critic when I say this, I'm just telling you the truth.

Actually, I do say this stuff for my faves as well. Of course I know that some Lana's and Gaga's dates were not properly sold out. For BTWB, there is no way those Eastern European dates were sold out like claimed - some of them were held at open air festival grounds and yet 16k and 12k is a sell-out? And I was at that second London date and can confirm that that place was maybe 70-75% full yet it was sold out. As for Lana, same - I've been to her concerts and they make the arena smaller by putting curtains around the areas that didn't sell so the place seems much smaller to cover up all the unsold areas. Still gets labelled sold out, however. And Lana sold out better than Taylor in arenas with her debut, I was there to witness that. And by the way, here's some stats to prove that Taylor's apparent sell outs were just the result of really low standards - she sold 3,421 tickets in Italy which was only 1,164 tickets away from a sell-out according to Billboard...Gaga played the same venue with the Joanne tour and sold 11,170 tickets and that was labelled as a sell-out (Lana also sold out the same venue last year, with 11,853 tickets). Now, tell me how Taylor was apparently just 1,164 tickets away from selling out the same venue with her measly 3,241 ticket gross? And also tell me how an arena that can hold over 11k people would look remotely impressive or anywhere near sold old with just over 3k people in it? Gaga also played some of the other same venues she played and it's the same story. Taylor "sold out" Manchester Arena with 10,488 tickets...Gaga sold out that arena with 15,543 tickets with BTWB. Taylor "sold out" Odessy Arena with 8,058 tickets...Gaga sold out that arena with 10,038 tickets with MB. Taylor "sold out" O2 Arena Dublin with 8,681 tickets...Gaga sold out that arena with 11,497 tickets with Artrave. Explain. I will not "SEETHE" as I know I'm right and you're obstinately refusing to acknowledge the truth: algorithms exist, standards differ according to cost of stage and lower sellouts were introduced to placate artist's big egos.

I do state facts, even when they're hard to say and I'm not biased. It is others who refuse to be objective and are willing to trust biased celebrity sources instead of figures and patterns laid out in front of them.

When I said that line, I was referring to the current method of recording sellouts, the "not sold out technically but recorded as sold out" mentality. I thought it was obvious when I was talking technically and reluctantly accepting the system.

Stop using that gif and acting smug. I don't feel the least bit diminished because everyone else seems to only talk in corrupted Billboard figures instead of looking at how the industry records sellouts these days and how it's all a pile of BS at the end of the day but we accept it.

She didn't have so much sales because of exclusive dates. She had so many dates in Oceania and North America. She is already huge in Asia. She has fastest selling song in Japan and her all albums were huge success there. She sold 1.5 million albums in Japan alone. About UK, if she is nothing at mainland Europe like you say, she didn't get help from there. 

Hits doesn't make you bigger anywhere at all. Justin had more hit single in Europe but did he play stadiums there? No. Ariana had much more number 1's at UK than Taylor but she still plays arenas there at her 5. era. People go concert to listen albums, not just for a few songs. 

No, Beyonce doesn't have bigger ww reach. Taylor has much bigger in North America, Asia and Oceania. 

Is this your best example? Come on over tour? The tour had 153 concert at N.A. total of 165. This is what ı was talking about. And 7 arena date in australia is not impressive. Taylor was first woman toured Australia with stadiums after Madonna, with her RED tour as country act. And she played big venues in UK. Thank you for proving my point better. She toured countries in Europe as country act in her most local era aka speak now. Taylor was the country act with most global reach. 

What is end stage numbers? Do every artist use same stage? Taylor's Reputation tour was biggest stage in history example. Her stages are huge. 

According to you, Taylor's %80 North American dates didn't sell out. She played 80k stadiums but 60k sell outs.. It doesn't work like that. 

If ı were artist, and able to play 50k stadiums, ı would chose them instead of 10k arenas. Who doesn't? This is not ego. This is common sense. 

All artists doesn't try to sell out like you say. Even huge ones. You can see multiple reported shows didn't sell out at concerts of Justin Bieber, Ariana Grande, Drake, Nicki Minaj etc. They are few examples. 

If demand is huge, they add more seats to average capacity of arena/stadium. At most of the USA dates, they did it for rep tour. Beyonce sold out stadium with 38k, Taylor with 49 at the same stadium. Both of them sold out, Taylor just added more seats due to demand. And they were weird places. I saw them myself. This is why they play to different capacities. 

Like ı said, as a pop star, she has demand to play stadium in 5 continents. Can you name any other solo artist able to do that right now except Adele and Ed?