Taylor earns her highest career peaks in Europe with Lover

[Saint Gaga 1,466]

I would rather sell 1M copies in US & be the #1 act there than selling 10k copies in irrelevant European countries & be #1 there

[Gizem 56]

47 minutes ago, gabeoz said:

Sis, it's all relative. Compared to many artists, you're right she wouldn't be considered local, but when you compare her to other artists on her level (including Gaga), they tend to have a much stronger international reach. Calling her local is a stretch, but it does convey the point she generally doesn't do that well in most international markets. 

Which artists except Adele and Ed, has more international reach than her? You mean more trach to Europe, not international reach. In really don't get why you all act like Europe is biggest market when it has only 3 market in IFPI list, equal to Asia or close to North America. She is able to fill stadiums in 7/10 big music markets. 

[gabeoz 7,915]

38 minutes ago, Gizem said:

Which artists except Adele and Ed, has more international reach than her? You mean more trach to Europe, not international reach. In really don't get why you all act like Europe is biggest market when it has only 3 market in IFPI list, equal to Asia or close to North America. She is able to fill stadiums in 7/10 big music markets. 

Trying to find where I said the word Europe or said it was just Europe 

[StrawberryBlond 15,560]

Not having much competition right now is a huge factor. There has been a distinct lack of huge albums this year so it's all relative. She only had 53k sales in the UK, only 24k of which were pure sales. Pretty bad for an artist whose last album had a #1 lead single and opened with 84k and whose tour played to 223k people. And who has had a #3 and #5 single this era. Just saying it like it is. If she continues down this path, things will only get worse.

1 hour ago, RAMROD said:

And all that back to the point that she is not a local act like some of you want to believe so bad. A local act would not reach audience more than her home town, or home country, if they are lucky. Let alone having sold out dates abroad, even if one is not visiting often. So honestly, y'all need to stop calling her that. Y'all just embarrassing yourself tbh.

If she's such a huge worldwide star, why does she rarely do concerts abroad? I can assure you that labels are all too happy to add tour dates wherever an artist is highly successful. 1989 was her most successful era in the UK (over 1m copies sold, none of her other albums come close) and yet she only did 2 arena dates (which she couldn't even sell out to full capacity) and a festival date. Her entire European tour consisted of 4 countries. Her entire world tour took in 10 countries. Pathetic. If you have demand in a country, you will be sent there. Period. Her team must know that even if her music sells, she has no demand as a touring act. Her weak international numbers at teeny venues during her Speak Now tour proved that. And "not visiting often" - how about never visiting? There's so many countries that are so obvious that most other artists go to frequently that she never does. She's been in the industry for 13 years and has 7 albums. She should have worked out how to be properly international by now. Stop making excuses for her shocking performance.

1 hour ago, Spock said:

And if y'all want to talk about local, during Speak Now (her most "local" era ever), she went on her most international tour to date and sold out venues across Europe. So let's not

This is actually hilarious. Those international dates were at tiny venues that didn't sell out compared to the large arenas and stadiums she did in America. Not one of those dates outside Oceania sold out, not even the small 9k capacity ones at Forest National, Oslo Spektrum and Zenith Paris. And she'd not performed in basically any of those countries until that point, so she'd built up fame and demand by the point. But even then, it still wasn't enough to sell out a teeny arena. I can confirm to you that not a single one of those European dates sold out. So let's not. It's funny that you're the one saying the haters are grasping at straws when you're the one trying to claim that a tour that performed to less than 100k people in the whole of Europe is proof of international success.

15 minutes ago, Gizem said:

Which artists except Adele and Ed, has more international reach than her? You mean more trach to Europe, not international reach. In really don't get why you all act like Europe is biggest market when it has only 3 market in IFPI list, equal to Asia or close to North America. She is able to fill stadiums in 7/10 big music markets. 

Gaga, Beyonce, Justin Beiber, Ariana Grande, Pink, Coldplay, Bruno Mars, Rihanna, Eminem, Maroon 5, Drake, Shakira...could go on. And I'm not just talking about Europe either, I do mean globally. And when she can fill stadiums in multiple cities in these big international markets, then we can talk. As it is, her appearances there are brief. And when I say "local" when talking about English speaking acts, that will always cover every English speaking nation, like USA, Canada, UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, etc. If you're English speaking, you will naturally do well in these countries, so it's no big deal. It's how you perform in non-English speaking countries that truly determine how beloved you are on a global scale and how much your music really translates. Over and over again, the numbers have shown that those without English as their native tongue are on the whole, not interested. She's lucky she has America on her side because she'd be nothing without them.

[Gizem 56]

1 minute ago, gabeoz said:

Trying to find where I said the word Europe or said it was just Europe 

You said other artists have more international reach when they only have bigger reach at Europe. 

[Mana Mahad 1,749]

5 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Not having much competition right now is a huge factor. There has been a distinct lack of huge albums this year so it's all relative. She only had 53k sales in the UK, only 24k of which were pure sales. Pretty bad for an artist whose last album had a #1 lead single and opened with 84k and whose tour played to 223k people. And who has had a #3 and #5 single this era. Just saying it like it is. If she continues down this path, things will only get worse.

If she's such a huge worldwide star, why does she rarely do concerts abroad? I can assure you that labels are all too happy to add tour dates wherever an artist is highly successful. 1989 was her most successful era in the UK (over 1m copies sold, none of her other albums come close) and yet she only did 2 arena dates (which she couldn't even sell out to full capacity) and a festival date. Her entire European tour consisted of 4 countries. Her entire world tour took in 10 countries. Pathetic. If you have demand in a country, you will be sent there. Period. Her team must know that even if her music sells, she has no demand as a touring act. Her weak international numbers at teeny venues during her Speak Now tour proved that. And "not visiting often" - how about never visiting? There's so many countries that are so obvious that most other artists go to frequently that she never does. She's been in the industry for 13 years and has 7 albums. She should have worked out how to be properly international by now. Stop making excuses for her shocking performance.

This is actually hilarious. Those international dates were at tiny venues that didn't sell out compared to the large arenas and stadiums she did in America. Not one of those dates outside Oceania sold out, not even the small 9k capacity ones at Forest National, Oslo Spektrum and Zenith Paris. And she'd not performed in basically any of those countries until that point, so she'd built up fame and demand by the point. But even then, it still wasn't enough to sell out a teeny arena. I can confirm to you that not a single one of those European dates sold out. So let's not. It's funny that you're the one saying the haters are grasping at straws when you're the one trying to claim that a tour that performed to less than 100k people in the whole of Europe is proof of international success.

Gaga, Beyonce, Justin Beiber, Ariana Grande, Pink, Coldplay, Bruno Mars, Rihanna, Eminem, Maroon 5, Drake, Shakira...could go on. And I'm not just talking about Europe either, I do mean globally. And when she can fill stadiums in multiple cities in these big international markets, then we can talk. As it is, her appearances there are brief. And when I say "local" when talking about English speaking acts, that will always cover every English speaking nation, like USA, Canada, UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, etc. If you're English speaking, you will naturally do well in these countries, so it's no big deal. It's how you perform in non-English speaking countries that truly determine how beloved you are on a global scale and how much your music really translates. Over and over again, the numbers have shown that those without English as their native tongue are on the whole, not interested. She's lucky she has America on her side because she'd be nothing without them.

Fake 24k were physical sales and 12k downloads 

so far we have : 

#1 Belgium Flandre

#1 Irland

#1 Netherlands 

#1 UK (53k)

#1 Sweden

#2 Italy

#2 Germany

#3 Japan

#4 Belgium Wallonie

#5 France

[Gizem 56]

43 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Not having much competition right now is a huge factor. There has been a distinct lack of huge albums this year so it's all relative. She only had 53k sales in the UK, only 24k of which were pure sales. Pretty bad for an artist whose last album had a #1 lead single and opened with 84k and whose tour played to 223k people. And who has had a #3 and #5 single this era. Just saying it like it is. If she continues down this path, things will only get worse.

If she's such a huge worldwide star, why does she rarely do concerts abroad? I can assure you that labels are all too happy to add tour dates wherever an artist is highly successful. 1989 was her most successful era in the UK (over 1m copies sold, none of her other albums come close) and yet she only did 2 arena dates (which she couldn't even sell out to full capacity) and a festival date. Her entire European tour consisted of 4 countries. Her entire world tour took in 10 countries. Pathetic. If you have demand in a country, you will be sent there. Period. Her team must know that even if her music sells, she has no demand as a touring act. Her weak international numbers at teeny venues during her Speak Now tour proved that. And "not visiting often" - how about never visiting? There's so many countries that are so obvious that most other artists go to frequently that she never does. She's been in the industry for 13 years and has 7 albums. She should have worked out how to be properly international by now. Stop making excuses for her shocking performance.

This is actually hilarious. Those international dates were at tiny venues that didn't sell out compared to the large arenas and stadiums she did in America. Not one of those dates outside Oceania sold out, not even the small 9k capacity ones at Forest National, Oslo Spektrum and Zenith Paris. And she'd not performed in basically any of those countries until that point, so she'd built up fame and demand by the point. But even then, it still wasn't enough to sell out a teeny arena. I can confirm to you that not a single one of those European dates sold out. So let's not. It's funny that you're the one saying the haters are grasping at straws when you're the one trying to claim that a tour that performed to less than 100k people in the whole of Europe is proof of international success.

Gaga, Beyonce, Justin Beiber, Ariana Grande, Pink, Coldplay, Bruno Mars, Rihanna, Eminem, Maroon 5, Drake, Shakira...could go on. And I'm not just talking about Europe either, I do mean globally. And when she can fill stadiums in multiple cities in these big international markets, then we can talk. As it is, her appearances there are brief. And when I say "local" when talking about English speaking acts, that will always cover every English speaking nation, like USA, Canada, UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, etc. If you're English speaking, you will naturally do well in these countries, so it's no big deal. It's how you perform in non-English speaking countries that truly determine how beloved you are on a global scale and how much your music really translates. Over and over again, the numbers have shown that those without English as their native tongue are on the whole, not interested. She's lucky she has America on her side because she'd be nothing without them.

Did you just underestimate the 53k in UK? Second biggest female debut of the year? And biggest was 65k. Sales dropped. Even Ed go from 600k to 120k. And she didn't even put Reputation to stream platforms. She did with lover. Your "she goes dowm narrative doesn't work. Sorry.

So you say that she was not able to fill stadiums in UK because of no demand at 1989 era, did she fill 2 wembley and 2 croke park because of reputation hype, 1/4 selling album of 1989 there?  Even her 1989 tour was mainly arenas at USA. Read her last interview and you will understand why it was arenas. 

What is pathetic? Grossing over 70 million with non-US dates which more than some biggest internatiol stars's(artists you named) total tour gross? 

At speak now, her most local era, she filled multiple arenas at Europe. And prove me which dates didn't sell out? You said you can confirm it. I am waiting. Only Italy date didn't sell out. She grossed 800k even in Norway. 

She jumped from 15k UK and 11k Ireland date in 1989 to Wembley and Croke park at Rep. She played at 12k stadiums in Germany and Netherlands too. She will probably jump to stadiums there too. Don't worry.  Tour success doesn't go with current success. This is why U2 and Rolling Stones still fill stadiums. 

Did you just name Justin Bieber, Ariana Grande, Drake, Rihanna etc.    Taylor played at Tokyo Dome at 2 times and broke the record of Madonna as Highest grossing concert in Asia with 7.5 million each night. She played 3/4 biggest stadiums in Oceania. She is highest grossing female in Canada Rogerts Centre. Rihanna played to half empty wembley, Ariana didn't even play to stadium in her career, Justin cancelled stadium part of her tour(his first stadium leg), Drake played to arenas didn't sell out even at her home country Canada. 

"she would be nothing without America" She has diamond album in Australia, 4 platinum album in UK, Red sold 600k there too, total 3 million sales, she has 9 platinum album at Philippines, She sold 1.5 million album sales at Japan with biggest concert for international artist, 4 album with 400k sales at Canada, 2 album 3× diamond in China which is highest cercification there, Lover already 1.5× diamond there. 

Top 10 music country according to IFPI are USA, Japan, UK, Germany, France, Australia, China, Brazil, Canada, Korea. If you left the markets you say, you left %40 of this list. And she is huge at Japan and China which you didn't mention. Total of 60 percentage. More than %75 with market sizes. 

Please stop embrassing yourself. 

[Gizem 56]

26 minutes ago, Mana Mahad said:

Fake 24k were physical sales and 12k downloads 

so far we have : 

#1 Belgium Flandre

#1 Irland

#1 Netherlands 

#1 UK (53k)

#1 Sweden

#2 Italy

#2 Germany

#3 Japan

#4 Belgium Wallonie

#5 France

All of them had weak competition this week according to @StrawberryBlond  This is why she is number 1. 

[Spock 20,292]

48 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

This is actually hilarious. Those international dates were at tiny venues that didn't sell out compared to the large arenas and stadiums she did in America. Not one of those dates outside Oceania sold out, not even the small 9k capacity ones at Forest National, Oslo Spektrum and Zenith Paris. And she'd not performed in basically any of those countries until that point, so she'd built up fame and demand by the point. But even then, it still wasn't enough to sell out a teeny arena. I can confirm to you that not a single one of those European dates sold out. So let's not. It's funny that you're the one saying the haters are grasping at straws when you're the one trying to claim that a tour that performed to less than 100k people in the whole of Europe is proof of international success.

You irk and irritate me to the point that I'm actually screenshooting attendance records and uploading it for you, sourced from Billboard Boxscores which are more reliable than a pressed internet random

Those venues were 99% sold out and here you are trying to make it seem as though she was performing in empty parking lots. No, they weren't stadiums, but Speak Now sold horribly internationally, with no hit single and had terrible charting outside of the US for the most part. And, I didn't know 15k, 9K, 8k, 5k capacities were "tiny venues". Taylor was touring a country record across the world, which is a genre no one cares for internationally, and there she was practically selling out arenas. So that is what normal people call international success; and you're the one looking like the clown here.

And do you know what's funny? You have been in every Taylor thread since at least 2014 polluting them with your nonsensically pressed and fact twisting walls of text. It's exhausting. I have clocked you countless of times, other Taylor fans have clocked you countless of times, and other users have clocked you countless of times. At what point are you going to stop? You're always bringing down her accomplishments with these dumb statements

On one of those instances when you were embarrassingly clocked years ago, she doesn't tour internationally simply because she doesn't WANT to. The demand is clearly there, as shown by the very successful legs of the almost sold out Speak Now World Tour. And once again, you're lying because EVERY single European show of the 1989 World Tour WAS sold out, and the Hyde Park show had record breaking attendance of over 65k which could have translated into multiple nights at the O2 or a stadium show. 

 

Why she doesn't want to tour, it's a mystery, but the demand IS clearly there. It's so funny trying to see you paint Taylor as if she were some Ciara flop. Not on my watch sis. Not to mention all the bullshit you're spreading everywhere about the Lover sales, which I won't get into here.

I can't wait for her to go on this crazy international Lover Tour like they are reportedly planning and for it to sell out everywhere so you can finally shut up 

[Versace 8,074]

But I thought she was only a thing in the US 

Where are the usual hating suspects (I'm looking for specific usernames)

[Versace 8,074]

2 hours ago, Saint Gaga said:

I would rather sell 1M copies in US & be the #1 act there than selling 10k copies in irrelevant European countries & be #1 there

She is the #1 act in the US 

Also kinda insensitive to call them irrelevant European countries. The world doesn't revolve around America you know 

[StrawberryBlond 15,560]

50 minutes ago, Mana Mahad said:

Fake 24k were physical sales and 12k downloads 

so far we have : 

#1 Belgium Flandre

#1 Irland

#1 Netherlands 

#1 UK (53k)

#1 Sweden

#2 Italy

#2 Germany

#3 Japan

#4 Belgium Wallonie

#5 France

That's why I said "pure sales." I never saw any info regarding downloads. And so what that she reached #1 in those countries? It's not hard to do at this present moment in time, there's no huge album acting as major competition. #1's are always relative to what's happening in the charts at that moment in time.

24 minutes ago, Gizem said:

Did you just underestimate the 53k in UK? Second biggest female debut of the year? And biggest was 65k. Sales dropped. Even Ed go from 600k to 120k. And she didn't even put Reputation to stream platforms. She did with lover. Your "she goes dowm narrative doesn't work. Sorry.

So you say that she was not able to fill stadiums in UK because of no demand at 1989 era, did she fill 2 wembley and 2 croke park because of reputation hype, 1/4 selling album of 1989 there?  Even her 1989 tour was mainly arenas at USA. Read her last interview and you will understand why it was arenas. 

What is pathetic? Grossing over 70 million with non-US dates which more than some biggest internatiol stars's(artists you named) total tour gross? 

At speak now, her most local era, she filled multiple arenas at Europe. And prove me which dates didn't sell out? You said you can confirm it. I am waiting. Only Italy date didn't sell out. She grossed 800k even in Norway. 

She jumped from 15k UK and 11k Ireland date in 1989 to Wembley and Croke park at Rep. She played at 12k stadiums in Germany and Netherlands too. She will probably jump to stadiums there too. Don't worry.  Tour success doesn't go with current success. This is why U2 and Rolling Stones still fill stadiums. 

Did you just name Justin Bieber, Ariana Grande, Drake, Rihanna etc.    Taylor played at Tokyo Dome at 2 times and broke the record of Madonna as Highest grossing concert in Asia with 7.5 million each night. She played 3/4 biggest stadiums in Oceania. She is highest grossing female in Canada Rogerts Centre. Rihanna played to half empty wembley, Ariana didn't even play to stadium in her career, Justin cancelled stadium part of her tour(his first stadium leg), Drake played to arenas didn't sell out even at her home country Canada. 

"she would be nothing without America" She has diamond album in Australia, 4 platinum album in UK, Red sold 600k there too, total 3 million sales, she has 9 platinum album at Philippines, She sold 1.5 million album sales at Japan with biggest concert for international artist, 4 album with 400k sales at Canada, 2 album 3× diamond in China which is highest cercification there, Lover already 1.5× diamond there. 

Top 10 music country according to IFPI are USA, Japan, UK, Germany, France, Australia, China, Brazil, Canada, Korea. If you left the markets you say, you left %40 of this list. And she is huge at Japan and China which you didn't mention. Total of 60 percentage. More than %75 with market sizes. 

Please stop embrassing yourself. 

Yes, I just did. I know my own country, I know what's good and bad. I don't care that it's the second biggest female debut of the year. There was no huge names other than Ariana releasing this year. If she came out on top competing against Beyonce, Gaga, etc. then fair enough but when Ariana and maybe Billie are the only competition and their albums were months ago, sorry, no, this isn't good enough for the fame Taylor has reached. Ed's numbers dropped because it was a collab album, so it's a false equivalency. And everyone puts their albums to stream these days, Taylor's the anomoly, I never thought she would suffer that much if she gave in after all this time as she's that famous enough that people would still buy it.

She built up demand by keeping those dates scarce, obviously. If she sells out to that extent every time she comes here then fair enough but I somehow don't think it'll continue as the public will lose interest when she's no longer fronting a massive era.

Yeah, because she charges a lot for tickets and stadium tickets are always more expensive anyway. That's why any artist sells as much as they do now. What is pathetic is that she only did 10 countries on a supposed world tour despite it supporting the biggest album of her career. There's no excuse.

I can prove it by looking up the concert capacities of these venues. Manchester Arena, for example, holds about 16k for concerts and she performed to just over 10k. Palacio De Los Deportes was the most embarrassing one, with a 15k capacity but only selling just over 3k. She doesn't even reach double figures for the majority of these dates, that tells you all you need to know. Even Lana Del Rey, who has never had hits like Taylor, played the same venues she did with her last tour and sold them out better. Sell-outs the way they are recorded on Wikipedia aren't genuine sell-outs. You just have to sell a set amount of tickets according to an algorithm to determine if you've sold enough to have what's considered basically a sell-out show. Clearly, these venues had very low standards. And grossing 800k in Norway is nothing amazing. Ticket prices are always sky high in that country, in fact, everything's ridiculously overpriced in that country.

Because she has grown in fame since then. Of course that's what happens. But at some point, when you're a popstar, it has to stop if you're not getting hits. Rock bands operate on a different plane as fans of them are far more diehard even when they don't have success anymore. The pop world is fickle. If you ain't hitting, you ain't ticketing.

I wasn't talking about the touring power of these acts but about their entire careers and how popular they are internationally. That's way more impressive than just working off their touring power. I'm much more impressed by artists who sell millions of albums worldwide as opposed to those who sell out tours. All the artists I listed are much more successful than Taylor in ways other than touring.

Those countries pale into insignificance without America, though. I shouldn't need to point this out. It's obvious, you just don't want to face up to it.

This is just the first week. These sales are too good for them to keep continuing, it'll all be downhill from here on out. Do you think she'll keep selling 1m copies in China every week from here on out? Dream on.

22 minutes ago, Gizem said:

All of them had weak competition this week according to @StrawberryBlond  This is why she is number 1. 

Exactly. I don't know what's so funny.

10 minutes ago, Spock said:

You irk and irritate me to the point that I'm actually screenshooting attendance records and uploading it for you, sourced from Billboard Boxscores which are more reliable than a pressed internet random

Those venues were 99% sold out and here you are trying to make it seem as though she was performing in empty parking lots. No, they weren't stadiums, but Speak Now sold horribly internationally, with no hit single and had terrible charting outside of the US for the most part. And, I didn't know 15k, 9K, 8k, 5k capacities were "tiny venues". Taylor was touring a country record across the world, which is a genre no one cares for internationally, and there she was practically selling out arenas. So that is what normal people call international success; and you're the one looking like the clown here.

And do you know what's funny? You have been in every Taylor thread since at least 2014 polluting them with your nonsensically pressed and fact twisting walls of text. It's exhausting. I have clocked you countless of times, other Taylor fans have clocked you countless of times, and other users have clocked you countless of times. At what point are you going to stop? You're always bringing down her accomplishments with these dumb statements

On one of those instances when you were embarrassingly clocked years ago, she doesn't tour internationally simply because she doesn't WANT to. The demand is clearly there, as shown by the very successful legs of the almost sold out Speak Now World Tour. And once again, you're lying because EVERY single European show of the 1989 World Tour WAS sold out, and the Hyde Park show had record breaking attendance of over 65k which could have translated into multiple nights at the O2 or a stadium show. 

 

Why she doesn't want to tour, it's a mystery, but the demand IS clearly there. It's so funny trying to see you paint Taylor as if she were some Ciara flop. Not on my watch sis. Not to mention all the bullshit you're spreading everywhere about the Lover sales, which I won't get into here.

I can't wait for her to go on this crazy international Lover Tour like they are reportedly planning and for it to sell out everywhere so you can finally shut up 

Oh my God, you clearly have no idea how concert grosses work. I was just explaining this above. How sell-outs are recorded on Wikipedia are inaccurate. An artist no longer has to sell every last ticket to be a sell-out these days, they just have to sell enough tickets according to an algorithm present for each venue. The bigger the venue, the higher the expectation to sell more tickets. If you look up the capacity of these venues you quoted, you'll see that they hold way more than what she sold, particularly the Spanish one, where she only filled a quarter of the venue but it was bizarrely still reported as sold out. Learn how this stuff works before trying to school me. And I mean venues less than 10k are tiny venues. The majority of international dates she performed in were as such. You understand there are some acts who won't even tour in a country if their biggest arena is less than 13k, right? That was the attitude she took from Red onwards but before then, she was just desperate to perform anywhere who'd have her, as evidenced by these tragic 4-figure attendences. And I never said the 1989 tour wasn't sold out, I was talking purely about Speak Now's.

If she doesn't want to tour internationally, then she's a fool and is letting her fans down. And has some ego to think only English speaking countries truly matter and that as long as you're big in America, that's all that matters.

I have every right to state my opinion on her. I pride myself on stating facts. I have never misrepresented Taylor or said she was flopping when she wasn't. I just deal with the facts and how the industry works. Gaga's downfall in 2013 woke me up to how I was living in a fantasy world where people are successful forever. It led me to research the history of artist's careers and examine common patterns to determine where and when downfalls happen and realised that no one can be huge forever. You Taylor fans need to watch your attitude because the laugh will be on you one day. I thought Taylor fans who also liked Gaga would know better than to think their fave is untouchable.

[Jose P 23,341]

3 hours ago, Saint Gaga said:

I would rather sell 1M copies in US & be the #1 act there than selling 10k copies in irrelevant European countries & be #1 there

LOL. I love how only the US matters for some reason. Those “irrelevant” European countries hold millions of people who listen to music as well. Nothing makes them worth less than American buyers.

[Gizem 56]

42 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

That's why I said "pure sales." I never saw any info regarding downloads. And so what that she reached #1 in those countries? It's not hard to do at this present moment in time, there's no huge album acting as major competition. #1's are always relative to what's happening in the charts at that moment in time.

Yes, I just did. I know my own country, I know what's good and bad. I don't care that it's the second biggest female debut of the year. There was no huge names other than Ariana releasing this year. If she came out on top competing against Beyonce, Gaga, etc. then fair enough but when Ariana and maybe Billie are the only competition and their albums were months ago, sorry, no, this isn't good enough for the fame Taylor has reached. Ed's numbers dropped because it was a collab album, so it's a false equivalency. And everyone puts their albums to stream these days, Taylor's the anomoly, I never thought she would suffer that much if she gave in after all this time as she's that famous enough that people would still buy it.

She built up demand by keeping those dates scarce, obviously. If she sells out to that extent every time she comes here then fair enough but I somehow don't think it'll continue as the public will lose interest when she's no longer fronting a massive era.

Yeah, because she charges a lot for tickets and stadium tickets are always more expensive anyway. That's why any artist sells as much as they do now. What is pathetic is that she only did 10 countries on a supposed world tour despite it supporting the biggest album of her career. There's no excuse.

I can prove it by looking up the concert capacities of these venues. Manchester Arena, for example, holds about 16k for concerts and she performed to just over 10k. Palacio De Los Deportes was the most embarrassing one, with a 15k capacity but only selling just over 3k. She doesn't even reach double figures for the majority of these dates, that tells you all you need to know. Even Lana Del Rey, who has never had hits like Taylor, played the same venues she did with her last tour and sold them out better. Sell-outs the way they are recorded on Wikipedia aren't genuine sell-outs. You just have to sell a set amount of tickets according to an algorithm to determine if you've sold enough to have what's considered basically a sell-out show. Clearly, these venues had very low standards. And grossing 800k in Norway is nothing amazing. Ticket prices are always sky high in that country, in fact, everything's ridiculously overpriced in that country.

Because she has grown in fame since then. Of course that's what happens. But at some point, when you're a popstar, it has to stop if you're not getting hits. Rock bands operate on a different plane as fans of them are far more diehard even when they don't have success anymore. The pop world is fickle. If you ain't hitting, you ain't ticketing.

I wasn't talking about the touring power of these acts but about their entire careers and how popular they are internationally. That's way more impressive than just working off their touring power. I'm much more impressed by artists who sell millions of albums worldwide as opposed to those who sell out tours. All the artists I listed are much more successful than Taylor in ways other than touring.

Those countries pale into insignificance without America, though. I shouldn't need to point this out. It's obvious, you just don't want to face up to it.

This is just the first week. These sales are too good for them to keep continuing, it'll all be downhill from here on out. Do you think she'll keep selling 1m copies in China every week from here on out? Dream on.

Exactly. I don't know what's so funny.

Oh my God, you clearly have no idea how concert grosses work. I was just explaining this above. How sell-outs are recorded on Wikipedia are inaccurate. An artist no longer has to sell every last ticket to be a sell-out these days, they just have to sell enough tickets according to an algorithm present for each venue. The bigger the venue, the higher the expectation to sell more tickets. If you look up the capacity of these venues you quoted, you'll see that they hold way more than what she sold, particularly the Spanish one, where she only filled a quarter of the venue but it was bizarrely still reported as sold out. Learn how this stuff works before trying to school me. And I mean venues less than 10k are tiny venues. The majority of international dates she performed in were as such. You understand there are some acts who won't even tour in a country if their biggest arena is less than 13k, right? That was the attitude she took from Red onwards but before then, she was just desperate to perform anywhere who'd have her, as evidenced by these tragic 4-figure attendences. And I never said the 1989 tour wasn't sold out, I was talking purely about Speak Now's.

If she doesn't want to tour internationally, then she's a fool and is letting her fans down. And has some ego to think only English speaking countries truly matter and that as long as you're big in America, that's all that matters.

I have every right to state my opinion on her. I pride myself on stating facts. I have never misrepresented Taylor or said she was flopping when she wasn't. I just deal with the facts and how the industry works. Gaga's downfall in 2013 woke me up to how I was living in a fantasy world where people are successful forever. It led me to research the history of artist's careers and examine common patterns to determine where and when downfalls happen and realised that no one can be huge forever. You Taylor fans need to watch your attitude because the laugh will be on you one day. I thought Taylor fans who also liked Gaga would know better than to think their fave is untouchable

"Pure sales" is combined sales of physical and dijital sales. 

Looks like you don't know your country enough. You said she will hardly fill wembley stadium but she easily filled 2 wembley date back to back. This is why ı choose to go with numbers and it says she had second biggest female debut of the year. 

Of course public will start to lose interest. She is at her 13. year of her career. This doesn't mean she will hardly fill stadiums. 

She sold 2.8 million tickets worldwide. Last tour 800k tickets were from outside of USA with only 13 concert. It was not about gross, her attendance was huge. 

Taylor sold 18 million albums outside of USA, more than Ariana Grande, Justin Bieber or Drake's ww sales.  At least speak with knowledge instead of throwing popular artists names. 

Madonna and Beyonce filled stadiums after their peak and they were not rock bands. 

Who said she will keep selling 1 million in China. Even if she doesn't sell from now on, lover is already diamond and no international artist has diamond album there. 

Name me 3 country artist filled arenas hold 4 number attendance in Europe in her 3. era so you can drag this numbers... 

No, capacity doesn't work like this. Taylor played 80k capatiy stadiums in USA but there was 55-60k attendance. Weren't they sold out? No. Her stages are big and close the part of stage. The capacity you are talking about is 360 percentage. Taylor doesn't play 360 tours. Make it make sense. 

Bilboard tour numbers are there. She sold out every arena in Europe at speak now tour except Italy. If you say otherwise, come with receipts instead of your own ways of thinking. 

She has more than enough demand to tour USA, Canada, UK, Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, Ireland, China, Japan, Singapure, Philippines, Endonesia,Mexico, Brazil, Australia and New Zealand. And this is MORE THAN ENOUGH. And if she change her idea from arena tour to stadium one, you will see this tour. 

 

[MrHappy 1,717]

Oh my god how HOW ??? Hoooow ?? With that album ?  sometimes I really want to live 80s just because of that. 

High quality albums were sold in the world at that time.