Is The Fame Monster a mess?

[gagzus 16,010]

2 hours ago, Why am I on GGD said:

Teeth barely has any electronic elements, sound sort of tribal, and it's the only song where her voice isn't stylised in any way. It's the only song that doesn't follow the typical pop structure.

It’s actually almost entirely electronic with the exception of the sax I think. It does follow a traditional pop structure almost entirely. It’s also not tribal it’s more along the lines of country ala Joanne with a hint of gospel energy. But it’s mostly just Pop-Rock at a stretch Pop-Country Rock

intro - don’t be scared..

verse 1 - don’t want no money

pre-chor - tell me something that’ll save me...

chor/post-chor - show me ya teeth...

verse 2 - got no salvation...

repeat pre, chor & post

bridge - show me your teeth, oh! Haow oh!...

Outro - show me your teeth (repetition) 

thats not an uncommon style of pop song tbh. It’s only minimally differed from the traditional 1-chor-2-bridge-chor/outro flow imo. 

[Didymus 34,380]

2 hours ago, Why am I on GGD said:

Three productions on the album don't match any of the other songs: Teeth, DITD and Speechless (to be clear, I love all these songs)

Do you people really think of musical cohesion as "these songs have to have the same instruments" That is not what cohesion is about, even on a sonical level.

[ANTI WP 19,825]

Not you again 

Spoiler

Jk but your concept of creating a thread is 

 

 

[Swallow 12,052]

The Fame & The Fame Monster are her most organised albums tho.

[Lemondeduerl 3,239]

She literally truns her fears into danceable pop songs, showing the darkness behind the fame, glamour and excesses. I mean that's beyond iconic. 

[MrDarkGa 311]

If we are talking track listing alone, Speechless sorta interupts the flow to me and would be better as a closer imo. 

If we're talking track choice, I always felt that Telephone is just not really carrying the theme as well as the others. In fact, I always felt Paparazzi was a better fit as its a bit more obviously dark tinged. It could be flipped as "Fear of Stalking/Obsession".

[crisTEAne 21,059]

[Babel 41,495]

10 hours ago, Guillermo Tello said:

Well, musically they are, but I meant in terms of cohesion based on the main theme of the albums. Like Joanne has a lot of songs that have nothing to do with Gaga's late aunt or ARTPOP has a lot of songs that doesn't talk exactly about Art 

That’s a ver superficial way of interpreting an album concept.

Joanne is also her middle name so at points there are songs that talks about her own journey, troubles and heartbreak. It’s not only a love letter to her family but to herself.

I always saw ARTPOP as a celebration of art rather than an art class. She always explained about putting her pain in the songs as a way of healing too. And pain is always a topic on art. 

Theres much more to talk about both albums and their meanings in depth though. But it’s not as plain as “Calls it ARTPOP, talks about Art and Pop”. How boring that would be. 

[Head Empty 25,237]

10 hours ago, Didymus said:

Do you people really think of musical cohesion as "these songs have to have the same instruments" That is not what cohesion is about, even on a sonical level.

How did I become "you people"?

And yes, for me instrumentation and production are great "tools" to create a cohesive sounding album. If she had recorded Lush Life on C2C with synths instead of a piano, it wouldn't be cohesive.

But please explain how I'm wrong

[JustJames 991]

Craziness. The only reason we are even evaluating the cohesion of the album is that LG *chose* to release a collection of songs that she stated publically all had the same source - her inner fears - and branded the work in a way more similar to a fashion collection than a pop album of 2009. She is sometimes her own worst enemy, though, because really, who listens to "1989" and tries to find a common thread that can be connected to that year, to birth, or to some other tangential theme (seriously just a random example - I don't know a single title from "1989" and am not stating an opinion of it)? Nobody. But, she was - and should have been - proud and wanted to share the story and concept with the world. 

Adding to that, she never seems to stop at the right time. I love her, but stopping with "the dark side of fame and expression of inner fears that it sheds light on" would have sufficed. No need to force songs into "fear of __ monster" categories (as she would later do with the "dance. sex. art. pop." theme of ARTPOP in a way); that, I think, can be debated as to its relevancy to the final EP. But, the macro concept was immaculate in execution except for "Telephone," which was clearly added to take advantage of what a Beyonce collab would due for her career at that time (and she was right).

I think "Paparazzi" was the perfect transition from The Fame > TFM eras, particularly considering that originally, TFM was only intended to be a short re-release. Prior to Papa, none of her singles were related to fame whatsoever. A lot of people hate "Starstruck," but if LoveGame was #5, I have to believe a Flo Rida collaboration could have matched that success, while giving more context to the theme and potentially setting up Papa for a better chart position since it deserved so much more than #6. 

Did she ever talk much about her plan for the singles off TFM? The Alejandro/DITD switch has been told many times, but is that it? I can't understand why you would stop at 3 singles when all charted top 3 and the rest were almost all similarly brilliant. I am not as familiar with when she recorded or wrote her unreleased work, but others mentioned Animal and Reloaded as options, and she absolutely should have made it into a full LP with a minimum of 5 singles. I think an LP would have secured the Grammy and Monster + DITD/SHICD would have ended the era with 2 more top 10 hits. 

[Inferno 2,880]

On 7/27/2019 at 1:04 AM, Why am I on GGD said:

Sonically it is, in my opinion. And contrary to what y'all drama queens are saying, that doesn't mean it's a bad album.

Three productions on the album don't match any of the other songs: Teeth, DITD and Speechless (to be clear, I love all these songs)

- Teeth barely has any electronic elements, sound sort of tribal, and it's the only song where her voice isn't stylised in any way. It's the only song that doesn't follow the typical pop structure.

- DITD would've fit perfectly on BTW with it's heavily distorted sound and even the theme. The only song that sort of matches on TFM is Bad Romance.

- Speechless is the least fitting. The retro sound, the accent, and the lack of synths. It shares no production elements with any other songs. Even thematically I think it doesn't really match the other "fears", as this is the only fear driven by something external, and not her personal psyche. 

The other songs all match relatively well. Clean, modern, somewhat industrial synths. Boppable. It's a diverse album, and it's great, but the style is a little all over the place.

You could say the same about ARTPOP, but at least there I get the feeling it was intentional, as that whole era was centred around transforming every second.

Starting this off by saying cohesion is not just about using the same instruments, as didymus stated. It's also about a vibe, a general aesthetic story which this album adheres to on all but one track.

Dance In the Dark fits directly with Bad Romance, Alejandro, Monster, So Happy I Could Die, Telephone and Teeth though. Its odd to me that people don't seem to get the thread that not only connects all of these songs even despite their slight variative differences but songs from The Fame as well as future albums BTW and AP. It's this 80s darkwave undercurrent that's present on every album mentioned. Buzzy synths and industrial pounding beats are underneath just about everything. In fact, Paper Gangsta and I Like It Rough are in the same sonic family as Dance In the Dark and Heavy Metal Lover imo. Actually even Alejandro, people mistake it for this summery tropical bop but its actually got that quasi-goth depeche mode pop production aesthetic that ties a lot of her work together (which is why it's kind of hilarious that people were in an uproar about how dark it's video was when in actuality it perfectly fit the vibe of the production). And I guess you could say Teeth is kinda tribal but I always thought of it as a goth new Orleans vampire type vibe, which even though it's a slight departure because of that it still aesthetically fits in with the gothpop theming of the ep especially with its inclusion of synths and again, those pounding beats under the production. You're also not taking into account the cohesion lyrically speaking through the use of horror and other dark melancholic metaphors.

Production wise every song on TFM is of the same family if you think about that darkwave europop undercurrent present on everything but Speechless, the only black sheep meant to highlight her piano ballad prowess. But I'd argue it's melancholy lyrical content and the way it's sung as if drunk on whiskey at a bar from a jukebox, it still fits the Dark theme in that way. I'd allow for that to be considered a reach tho lol

Id say every album besides The Fame + Monster is a little all over the place sonically but they're still all tied together conceptually or with vibe. But of them all TFM is the cohesive cohesive one.

[Felix34 45]

No The Fame Monster is an AMAZING album. TFM literally is her Blackout!

[raragaga 8,119]

[Doot 2]

Exactly the opposite.

The Fame Monster and The Fame are the only two releases she'd had that actually feel like every song fits the theme and is supposed to be there.

[FfFfFfFF 56,094]

Madness luv.