Dalai Lama: Europe will become "muslim" or "african" if migrants stay

[OMonster 15,025]

4 minutes ago, LaLa said:

I just want everyone to be free, and safe, and happy (and I know you want that too)  

I think we have similar beliefs, too - and I hope the vast majority of people share that with us. And thank you for sharing the context you approach this discussion from. I think it's great that, as a white person, you are not blind to the struggles of people different to you. 

I wanted to pull-up this specific quote, though. I absolutely want everyone to be free, safe and happy. But here's the thing - freedom, safety and happiness all mean such radically different things to different cultures. In some cultures, the execution of gay people is a *facilitator* of wider peace and happiness. In others, mutilating women's bodies is not seen as an infringement on one's freedom. 

And that's the problem. Cultures (or at least, radical sectors of a particular culture) can be very different, and are not meant to integrate. Because if they did, it would not be peaceful, happy or safe for many millions of people. And I think, again, that is all the Dalai Lama was saying - though failed to communicate that point responsibly. 

Again, and I'm sorry to repeat myself, I *do not* think that Muslim people living in the West pose a threat of incompatibility. Not at all. But I do think the radical hypothetical of 'a majority of Europe being Islamic' would be dangerous if that meant that their traditional religious and legal customs became dominant. 

I guess my point is that total freedom (for *anyone* to live *anywhere*) is not possible... not when some religious and cultural beliefs are so incompatible with others. And the likelihood of radical interpretations of religion declining (particularly in territories dominated by only one religion) is pretty low. 

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

13 minutes ago, SKANK said:

It’s important to consider where he is coming from. 

The Dala Lama was the spiritual and political leader of Tibet. He was deposed by the Chinese government. The Tibetans were tortured, slaughtered, and forced to abandon their faith and culture, while China pushed its secular population into Tibet in order to gain control of the region. 

That is his frame of reference. 

 

 

The reason the Chinese gov. did this is also pretty horrid,  and a different topic.

[sophilosophy 20]

Coz they are not veggie enough for him 

[SKANK 14,288]

5 minutes ago, Woolfsmck said:

The reason the Chinese gov. did this is also pretty horrid,  and a different topic.

 

Yes, and it informs his perspective on how native populations can be negatively effected by migration. His culture and country has effectively dissolved. 

[Guest Adarsh]

I love this man more than anything but isn’t he a refugee in India himself? 

[LaLa 19,898]

21 minutes ago, OMonster said:

I guess my point is that total freedom (for *anyone* to live *anywhere*) is not possible... not when some religious and cultural beliefs are so incompatible with others. And the likelihood of radical interpretations of religion declining (particularly in territories dominated by only one religion) is pretty low. 

Maybe it's idealistic or naive, but I think it is possible. Maybe not today or tomorrow though, fair enough.  And climate change will probably alter life  so drastically in the coming years that a total shake-up of life on Earth is coming anyway 

But getting back to the Dalai Lama, he wasn't just talking about extremist Muslim groups, he mentioned Africa too which is a whole-ass continent with many cultures, so he's still not getting a pass from me. 

[GagaMariaSpears 1,627]

Aren't Bosnia and Albania Muslim countries? 

[OMonster 15,025]

22 minutes ago, LaLa said:

Maybe it's idealistic or naive, but I think it is possible. Maybe not today or tomorrow though, fair enough.  And climate change will probably alter life  so drastically in the coming years that a total shake-up of life on Earth is coming anyway 

But getting back to the Dalai Lama, he wasn't just talking about extremist Muslim groups, he mentioned Africa too which is a whole-ass continent with many cultures, so he's still not getting a pass from me. 

In many hundreds of years, when religion is no more - yes, it will be possible. And globalisation will absolutely play a part in that. But in our life times, our freedom will always be restricted by different values. 

And I think the fact that he mentioned other cultures beyond just Muslim / Islamic ideologies, is indicative of how he clearly isn't racist. This wasn't an attack or commentary on one specific religion / race / culture - it was just a comment on how if a 'foreign' culture ever dominated a 'native' culture, there would be trouble. And he is right, because of the legal implications this would have, there would be. 

Culture refers to the literal lifeblood of any given society. And his point wasn't just about violence or discrimination - it was about all kinds of incompatibilities that would occur in the above scenario. TV, film, music, fashion, food, holidays, language, business, healthcare - *everything* would change if a culture, without conforming to new customs, suddenly dominated another culture. 

Perhaps what will happen in many, many years is that, as a result of globalisation, all cultures will fall together and a totally new consensus will be formed - not one defined by religion or politics. Perhaps even, to take that one step further, we are *already* living in that transitional period... which is why the world is in such a volatile and divided state, as each 'identity' / 'culture' is fighting for itself. Scary thought, in some ways... liberating in others. 

Are we part of the era that is witnessing the death of religion, tradition and other social-constructions? And if we are, should we be trying to stop it? Because, inevitably, such a transformational process  is always going to be messy... as we can see in rises in hate crime, terrorism, division, mental health / identity crisis', and broader matters of inequality. 

If only time-travel were real... 

Spoiler

Sorry, I don't mean to keep firing back at you - I *really* enjoy these kinds of conversations, and I like exploring all the different points made... and each time you raise an interesting point, I like to think about it 

 

[AgusPop 4,162]

I think he is against  invasions of all kind, Tibet was invaded by China. so he knows. but of course, left and right will be crazy about it . mess 

 

[South Blonde 6,362]

I can't really talk about the whole Europe but I'm Italian and I can confirm that we've been pretty African for a long time and that's absolutely not a big deal...

[Swallow 12,052]

10 minutes ago, GagaMariaSpears said:

Aren't Bosnia and Albania Muslim countries? 

Yes and they are super irrelevant and not even in the top 40 European countries, your point? 

[Pacify Him 9,073]

Oh wow, tea  we're converting to Islam now, gays 

[LaLa 19,898]

7 minutes ago, OMonster said:

Perhaps even, to take that one step further, we are *already* living in that transitional period... which is why the world is such a volatile and divided nation, as each 'identity' / 'culture' is fighting for itself. Scary thought, in some ways... liberating in others. 

Are we part of the era that is witnessing the death of religion and tradition? If only time-travel were real.

Actually, I do think that's what is happening! We are definitely living in a time of transition, and I don't think there is any point in clinging to the "old ways". Much better to accept, and instead of flighting change, flight to make sure the change is for the better. 

(And don't worry, I don't feel attacked! I can tell we're having a genuine conversation )

[Alii 2,039]

2 hours ago, Didymus said:

Sorry pal, Western culture evolved from the Near East and Islam has been an integral part of Europe culturally, economically, politically and ideologically since the ****ing Middle Ages

What's the point even of spouting this nonsense when Western imperialism has illegitimately taken over the whole ****ing planet. Pick up a ****ing history book people, this ain't no game.

What about Islamic imperialism?

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

47 minutes ago, SKANK said:

 

Yes, and it informs his perspective on how native populations can be negatively effected by migration. His culture and country has effectively dissolved. 

You may reference the history of the British isle too...saxons aren't the native population there either.