Shallow Now Gaga's Biggest Global Hit?

[Adelita 3,177]

1 minute ago, FfFfFfFF said:

Cher had plenty of hits before Believe. 3 1# songs before it.

And I don't see how the fact that Sorry had a sample contradicts the fact that was successful. Hung Up  and Sorry were Madonna's comeback hits and made a lot of year-end charts, regardless of circumstances.

"Pleny of hits" - extremely locals

She only have one song in this chart: http://www.mediatraffic.de/alltime-track-chart.htm, which is exactly Believe, her first and only real worldwide hit.

About Madonna: Seeing the truth is not for everyone.

[Adelita 3,177]

1 minute ago, FfFfFfFF said:

Well it's very hard to measure how big a song was, and then compare it mathematically to her comeback to see if it was bigger. I don't think it can work like that.

But that's the way it was, Cher never had a big worldwide hit and everybody knows that, and Believe was only successful for his pioneering auto-tune.

 

[FfFfFfFF 54,014]

1 minute ago, Adelita said:

"Pleny of hits" - extremely locals

She only have one song in this chart: http://www.mediatraffic.de/alltime-track-chart.htm, which is exactly Believe, her first and only real worldwide hit.

About Madonna: Seeing the truth is not for everyone.

On that chart Madonna's biggest song is Hung Up (#125), the second is Vogue (#126), Papa Don't Preach is third (#163). If that chart proves Cher's most successful song is Believe then it proves that Madonna's most successful song is Hung Up which makes her comeback bigger than her early hits.

[FfFfFfFF 54,014]

5 minutes ago, Adelita said:

But that's the way it was, Cher never had a big worldwide hit and everybody knows that, and Believe was only successful for his pioneering auto-tune.

 

Most hit songs song had something distinctive, this doesn't take away the fact that they had success. We can say ''oh that song was a hit because it was catchy'' - but this is the point of hit songs.

[Adelita 3,177]

12 minutes ago, Economy said:

I don't know the chart history for all of her songs but "If I could turn back time" was definitely a big one

 

And either way she had a major career for decades when she had her biggest hit that's was the point

'If I Could Turn Back Time' was a moderate success, in YEC arround the world, it only managed to appear in the top 40 of 4 countries and only in the top 10 of Australia, which we can't even pretend it was a huge hit or striking like the others girls signature hit like I posted at the beginning of this topic.

[Adelita 3,177]

2 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

Most hit songs song had something distinctive, this doesn't take away the fact that they had success. We can say ''oh that song was a hit because it was catchy'' - but this is the point of hit songs.

 

And who said the opposite? 

[Adelita 3,177]

7 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

On that chart Madonna's biggest song is Hung Up (#125), the second is Vogue (#126), Papa Don't Preach is third (#163). If that chart proves Cher's most successful song is Believe then it proves that Madonna's most successful song is Hung Up which makes her comeback bigger than her early hits.

Using ABBA's sample to succeed in Europe after American Life's backlash/Being canceled in the United States for me isn't playing fair, it's being smart, and that's what Madonna did, Hung Up for me is the same as the movie Mamma Mia, both hits, but anchored in the legacy of another artist.

[MonsterOfSpain 8,275]

6 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

On that chart Madonna's biggest song is Hung Up (#125), the second is Vogue (#126), Papa Don't Preach is third (#163). If that chart proves Cher's most successful song is Believe then it proves that Madonna's most successful song is Hung Up which makes her comeback bigger than her early hits.

It's actually Like a Prayer at #83 but I agree that, if not her biggest, Hung Up is up there among Madonna's signature hits.

But that chart says Shape of You is the 2nd biggest song of all times and Perfect is at #12 too so I wouldn't really take it as a fact  

[FfFfFfFF 54,014]

Just now, Adelita said:

 

And who said the opposite? 

You said that Sorry was successful because it had a sample and that Believe was successful because it had autotune.

Also to mention: when Cher was at her peak many countries still didn't have official charts.

[FfFfFfFF 54,014]

1 minute ago, Adelita said:

Using ABBA's sample to succeed in Europe after American Life's backlash/Being canceled in the United States for me isn't playing fair, it's being smart, and that's what Madonna did, Hung Up for me is the same as the movie Mamma Mia, both hits, but anchored in the legacy of another artist.

Are we measuring chart success or musical artistry? 

[Adelita 3,177]

1 minute ago, MonsterOfSpain said:

It's actually Like a Prayer at #83 but I agree that, if not her biggest, Hung Up is up there among Madonna's signature hits.

But that chart says Shape of You is the 2nd biggest song of all times and Perfect is at #12 too so I wouldn't really take it as a fact  

Shape Of You has sold 40 million SPS copies according to the IFPI, let's not denigrate the fact that it was one of the biggest hits in history.

[Adelita 3,177]

1 minute ago, FfFfFfFF said:

Are we measuring chart success or musical artistry? 

 

One is related to the other, the success in the charts is based on the art that the artist put out, commercial or underground.

[FfFfFfFF 54,014]

Just now, Adelita said:

 

One is related to the other, the success in the charts is based on the art that the artist put out, commercial or underground.

This doesn't mean that you can downplay a song success because of it. Sure, we can analyse things like this since we are a pop forum but the discussion here is simply which songs were bigger. How they sounded is unrelated in this type of discussion. 

[Adelita 3,177]

3 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

You said that Sorry was successful because it had a sample and that Believe was successful because it had autotune.

Also to mention: when Cher was at her peak many countries still didn't have official charts.

The Cher's peak, commercially speaking, was in the Believe era, when all the official charts of the world already existed.

And yes, Hung Up was only successful by the ABBA sample because she knew that her image was burned in the US and played safe, using sample from the biggest band in Europe to cover the rhombus that would occur in the US.

In addition, Believe owes it's success to the revolution it caused.

 

[Adelita 3,177]

2 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

This doesn't mean that you can downplay a song success because of it. Sure, we can analyse things like this since we are a pop forum but the discussion here is simply which songs were bigger. How they sounded is unrelated in this type of discussion. 

But that's exactly what I'm referring to, the success of each song has a cause behind it, and I've just explained why those songs were successful, but at no time did I deny that they were successful.