MJ's music dropped from BBC Radio 2

[gagaisitalian 3,573]

Just now, Christian Haines said:

Uh Jackson’s insurance agency footed the bill. It was an unanimous decision by Jackson’s legal council and Jackson was pressured to resolve the case by his music label, Sony Music.They forced him to this decision because of course they wanted him to continue to tour,and make music.

Defend him all you want. The dude molested kids. We wouldn't be talking about it over 30 years after the initial instance if there wasn't heavy proof to back the claims. He himself admitted to sleeping in beds with kids.

[DpHitch1992 1,076]

42 minutes ago, Christian Haines said:

 

Ah yeah "evidence" that proved absolutely nothing and that he was acquitted from/invesitgated by the FBI for 10 years for but okay sureeeeeeee.Also nothing in that list also supports him being a pedophile with factual evidence so uh okay? You have absolutely no point here.

I used to think this but the FBI didn't usually investigate him for 10 years. The assisted the police when needed but they did not carry out a full investigation themselves. 

[Guest]

Let's do a recap.

If you really want facts read this (quite long)

Spoiler

's do a little recap

August 1993 : First accusations

Los Angeles Police Department began investigating claims that Jackson had molested a 13-year-old boy. Executing search warrants for a condominium in Los Angeles and Jackson’s Neverland Ranch in Santa Barbara County, Calif., the police seized videotapes but found no incriminating evidence. 

On July 2, 1993, in a private telephone conversation, Chandler (the father of the 13 year old boy) was recorded  saying:

There was no reason why [Jackson] had to stop calling me ... I picked the nastiest son of a bitch I could find [Chandler's lawyer Barry Rothman], all he wants to do is get this out in the public as fast as he can, as big as he can and humiliate as many people as he can. He's nasty, he's mean, he's smart and he's hungry for publicity. Everything's going to a certain plan that isn't just mine. Once I make that phone call, this guy is going to destroy everybody in sight in any devious, nasty, cruel way that he can do it. I've given him full authority to do that. Jackson is an evil guy, he is worse than that and I have the evidence to prove it. If I go through with this, I win big-time. There's no way I lose. I will get everything I want and they will be destroyed forever ... Michael's career will be over.[13]

In the same conversation, when asked how this would affect his son, Chandler replied:

That's irrelevant to me ... It will be a massacre if I don't get what I want. It's going to be bigger than all us put together ... This man [Jackson] is going to be humiliated beyond belief ... He will not sell one more record.[13]

The recorded conversation was a critical aspect of Jackson's defense against the allegations made against him. He and his supporters argued that he was the victim of a jealous father whose only goal was to extort money from him. In October 1994, Mary A. Fischer of GQ magazine reported it was Chandler who initially accused Jackson of molesting his son, before he demanded a screenwriting deal from Jackson instead of going to the police.

On August 21, a search warrant was issued, allowing police to search Neverland Ranch. Police questioned 30 children who were friends of Jackson, who all stated that Jackson was not a child molester. A police officer involved in the investigation told The Los Angeles Times that no evidence (medical, photographic or video) could be found that would support a criminal filing.

The police began an investigation into Chandler, and found that he was $68,400 behind in his child support payments, despite being well-paid as a dentist.On November 8, police searched the Jackson family home, Hayvenhurst, but found nothing of importance. They increased their efforts after no supporting evidence was found, and after questioning almost 30 children and their families, all of whom said Jackson had done nothing wrong.

Jackson began taking painkillers, Valium, Xanax and Ativan to deal with the stress of the allegations.

In December 1993, Jackson was served with a warrant for a strip search, as police wanted to verify Jordan Chandler's description of Jackson's private anatomy.[34] The order stated that officers were to examine, photograph and videotape Jackson's entire body, "including his penis, ****, hips, [and] buttocks". The police were looking for discoloration or any other signs of vitiligo that he[who?] had spoken about, or any other skin disorder. Refusal to comply would be used in court as an indication of guilt.

Jordan claimed that Jackson was circumcised.However, Jackson's autopsy report showed that he had not been circumcised and his foreskin appeared naturally intact, with no signs of having been restored from a circumcision.[57] Taraborrelli claims that Jordan correctly noted patchy colored skin on his buttocks, short pubic hair, and testicles marked pink and brown;[58] however, initially investigators claimed Chandler said Jackson had splotches on his genitals a color "similar to the color of his face" rather than pink and brown.

RESULT AND EVIDENCE : None. Accusations based on claims.

2003: Fallout from a documentary

In February 2003, with Jackson’s music career in decline, the documentary “Living With Michael Jackson,” based on interviews by the journalist Martin Bashir, was broadcast in Britain and the United States. In it, Jackson openly discussed sharing his bedroom with a young cancer survivor, and called people who object to such behavior “ignorant.”

The documentary sparked a criminal investigation, and in December, Jackson was charged with child molesting, serving alcohol to a minor, conspiracy and kidnapping. He faced up to 20 years in prison.

RESULT AND EVIDENCE: None. Accusations based on claims

2005: Trial

Michael Jackson was charged with molesting Gavin Arvizo, a 13-year-old boy. Jackson was indicted for four counts of molesting a minor, four counts of intoxicating a minor to molest him, one count of attempted child molestation, one count of conspiring to hold the boy and his family captive, and conspiring to commit extortion and child abduction. 

In August, authorities interviewed Gavin Arvizo, his mother Janet, and younger brother Star.[2]In November, Gavin told police that Jackson had molested him several times in February and March 2003, when, according to Janet, Jackson had held the family captive at Neverland Ranch.

On November 18, 2003,[6] police searched Neverland Ranch.[5] Nothing incriminating was found.[12] On November 23, Jackson was arrested and led in handcuffs by the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department before the media.[13] He was released an hour later after posting a $3 million bond.[6]

Jason Francia, who was 24 at the time of the trial, testified that Jackson had molested him on several occasions while tickling him. Francia's mother was employed by Jackson as a maid. Francia said that "every time I was being tickled there was some sort of exchange of money", with the understanding that he would not tell his mother

In April 2005, Ralph Chacon, a former security guard at Neverland Ranch, testified that he had seen Jackson performing oral sex on Chandler in the early 1990s.[24] He also described seeing Jackson passionately kiss him and place his hand on the boy's crotch.[20] He said he did not report the incident to police because he thought he would not be believed

A former maid at the ranch, Adrian McManus, alleged she had seen Jackson kissing boys including the child star Macaulay Culkin, and described Jackson touching Culkin's leg and "rear end".[24] She also claimed that she had seen Jackson touching Chandler's genitals.[24] Culkin denied being molested by Jackson

According to testimony, Chacon and McManus had been found guilty of stealing items from Jackson's house amounting to more than $50,000, and ordered to pay more than $1 million in legal fees.[20] Under cross-examination from Mesereau, the pair admitted that they had been paid thousands of dollars to give a tabloid interview. McManus admitted that she and her husband were found to have defrauded a relative's children of money from their estate, and that she had stolen a sketch by Jackson worth $35,000.[20] Mesereau accused the pair of attempting to "get even" with Jackson for the failed suit and characterized them as money-seekers.[20]

Jordan Chandler, the alleged victim in the 1993 child abuse allegations, left the country rather than appear as a witness.[29] He had been legally emancipated from his parents.[29] In the event that Chandler gave evidence, Mesereau said that he had prepared witnesses who would say Chandler had told them the abuse never happened and that he would never talk to his parents again for forcing him to lie.

Gavin Arvizo was 15 when he testified.[15] He claimed that, after Living with Michael Jackson aired, Jackson had begun serving him and his younger brother wine and making sexual advances.[32] He said that Jackson had masturbated him to ejaculation after they drank alcohol,[33] and then told him that if men do not masturbate, they "might rape a girl".[34] Challenged by Mesereau, who said that Gavin had told sheriffs that his grandmother had said this, Gavin said "I'm not exactly sure what my grandmother told me".[34] Gavin admitted that he had told his school administrator that Jackson had not molested him

Fingerprints from Gavin and Jackson were found on ****ographic magazines belonging to Jackson. Mesereau countered that Jackson had caught Gavin reading them and locked them in a briefcase

The trial heard that Gavin's father had persistently begged celebrities for money after Gavin had been diagnosed with cancer.

Gavin's younger brother, Star, told the court that he had twice seen Jackson molest Gavin.[35] He also said that Jackson had displayed his erection and masturbated in front of them, telling them that "everyone did it" and encouraging them to try it.[35] Star testified that Jackson had given the boys alcohol, sometimes in soda cans, and which Jackson called "Jesus juice".[35] Star also said Jackson had showed the brothers internet ****ography on his computer.[35] The Guardian described Star as a "hapless witness for the prosecution, forgetting crucial details that he had revealed to the grand jury, even when prompted by the prosecution"

Janet Arvizo:

The defense sought to portray Janet as untrustworthy, with a history of perjury and fraud. She admitted to having lied under oath in an earlier lawsuit.[28] The prosecution planned to have an expert on domestic violence testify that she may have lied because she had been beaten by her ex-husband, but the judge did not allow it, saying it would be irrelevant.[28] The defense also presented evidence of Janet having committed welfare fraud, for which she was later convicted.[37]

 

RESULT AND EVIDENCE: All of the accusations were made by people who were caught lying, or being frauds...

@Didymus

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Didymus said:

https://www.mjfacts.com/resources/011805pltreqaseemd.pdf

Page 2. Look up those books. Basically designed for male pedophiles. My memory was faulty though, they only found the kids' fingerprints on adult p-rnographic material (equally troubling imo, as showing kids that kind of material is a classic grooming practice). But he did keep the "nude boys books" in a locked filing cabinet away from his other p-rnographic books, which means he treasured them.

Again, no hard evidence. But it's still evidence. And, again, it would be more than enough evidence for parents trying to keep their kids safe if this wasn't about a celebrity. Now, once more, this does not mean Michael is guilty. But the only reason imaginable for people to look at the evidence that is there and say "he's totally innocent, how can you think otherwise" is because they are fans. No one knows the truth. But there is more than enough reason to be suspicious. That's literally all. I don't understand how that's already too much for some of you. We're talking about a grown man who paid parents to sleep with their kid in the same bed, like, how much do you need?

u should read my recap

[SLAG 7]

2 minutes ago, gagaisitalian said:

Defend him all you want. The dude molested kids. We wouldn't be talking about it over 30 years after the initial instance if there wasn't heavy proof to back the claims. He himself admitted to sleeping in beds with kids.

Sleeping in the same bed = rape?

We wouldn’t be discussing it 30 years after or 10 years after his death if these “victims” didn’t need money. 

[InTraumatica 5,786]

Why should we believe Kesha and not them? 

[Didymus 32,819]

2 minutes ago, kyanewest said:

u should read my recap

Scrolling through it, it doesn't seem to address the fact that Michael had several books full of nude children in his bedroom, so that doesn't seem to be a relevant reply.

[Didymus 32,819]

1 minute ago, DziJuLaj said:

Why should we believe Kesha and not them? 

What's the connecting thread? Celebrity status. Sad tbh.

[geusst1235 5,398]

Just now, gagaisitalian said:

Defend him all you want. The dude molested kids. We wouldn't be talking about it over 30 years after the initial instance if there wasn't heavy proof to back the claims. He himself admitted to sleeping in beds with kids.

And there you go not even giving a counterpoint.There ISN'T heavy proof thats the thing,if there is actually present it.Also yes he did say that,however being close friends with someone who had a pretty ****ed up childhood/not much of one(in a different way of course) its astonishing how much the behavior is similar.I'm not saying that sleeping in a bed with other children is something I would personally do,but it is a fact that MJs childhood affected him greatly.He was a child in a man's body,and felt safe with kids(just like my friend to a lesser extent).Also sleeping in a bed does not automatically equal rape either.

[geusst1235 5,398]

4 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Scrolling through it, it doesn't seem to address the fact that Michael had several books full of nude children in his bedroom, so that doesn't seem to be a relevant reply.

He had truckloads of books sent from fans(which would specifically be children related since they knew he liked children).My school also has books similar to that in the library.Does that make the librarian/staff or anyone that reads one a pedophile? Or anyone else that had similar books that were OFFICALLY released.

[Didymus 32,819]

Just now, Christian Haines said:

He was a child in a man's body,and felt safe with kids(just like my friend to a lesser extent).Also sleeping in a bed does not automatically equal rape either. 

But why would you be so adamant about sleeping with kids in the first place, even if you are a kid in a man's body (which is not a recognized diagnosis btw)? I feel like some of you guys are completely missing the point about what makes everything so off-putting and uncomfortable. It's not about Michael feeling safe with kids and wanting to hang out with them, that's all fine. That doesn't require an explanation. What does require an explanation is why he slept with children at all, regardless of his ****ed up childhood.

[Didymus 32,819]

Just now, Christian Haines said:

He had truckloads of books sent from fans(which would specifically be children related since they knew he liked children).My school also has books similar to that in the library.Does that make the librarian/staff or anyone that reads one a pedophile? Or anyone else that had similar books that were OFFICALLY released.

I'm not saying anything at all. I'm simply responding to the people who say there is "ZERO" evidence. Once again, the jury admitted themselves there was convincing evidence, just not enough to be certain about Michael's guilt. That's a completely different story compared to the ones you're spreading around here.

[RochestrMonstr 2,274]

I've said this before, I really hope someday there is somehow a better way for police to prove innocence or guilt in these cases. I don't know how long it would take for science to come that far, but situations like this would hopefully be prevented all together (and at the very least, they wouldn't be up for debate). 

No one deserves to be a victim of sexual assault, and no one deserves to be accused of a crime they did not commit.  All-around bad.  

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Scrolling through it, it doesn't seem to address the fact that Michael had several books full of nude children in his bedroom, so that doesn't seem to be a relevant reply.

There were art books,  clearly stated as not being ****ographic in nature but as items that could “possibly” be used as part of a “grooming” process. Again claims to fit a narrative.

Plus all the accusations are invalid since they all been caught in their lie. 

If at least one of them accused him and we had no evidence of them ever lying in their past, then maybe there could be suspicion.

But in this case, they all have inaccuracies in their stories + a history of scamming people for money

That's a big fat pile of evidence AGAINST Michael if u ask me

I'm open minded, and u can prove me wrong but for now I dont see anything that points to him being a monster

[OBEY 57,107]

5 minutes ago, Didymus said:

I'm not saying anything at all. I'm simply responding to the people who say there is "ZERO" evidence. Once again, the jury admitted themselves there was convincing evidence, just not enough to be certain about Michael's guilt. That's a completely different story compared to the ones you're spreading around here.

"He slept in his bed with children on tour, there's NO EVIDENCE HE RAPED THEM". yeah we don’t know if he did raped them, but you can't deny that it's a very strange situation.