Shallow Wasn't Meant for Success - A Rant on Promo Singles

[MonsterOfSpain 8,318]

1 minute ago, hellothing said:

Wasn't the second single supposed to be Boys Boys Boys? 

Boys Boys Boys was meant to be the 5th single after Paparazzi but they decided to scrap it and go straight with BR and TFM era

[Cloudbusting 1,548]

I agree with you but thank god that happened! Shallow is more memorable than INLA in the movie and as a song imo. The structure of the song is something different and makes it stand out against other songs INLA sounds very 90s ballad ( and a little bit like I bellive I can fly which )I think outside the us shallow is bigger than INLA could be. Now in the US I think  INLA would be bigger considering it would be played on the radio more easily so idk. Great thread

[Admin 24,441]

1 hour ago, hellothing said:

I believe that I'll Never Love Again could have been double the hit that Shallow could ever be.

If it could have, it would have.

[Bradley 59,064]

The fact that Shallow is so heavily featured in the trailer and released as the lead single though.

[mmkay 854]

1 hour ago, ReginaGeorge said:

Yikes...  User was not negative at all and he made some great points and he took some time to explain it in detail so you should respect that. 

[Regina George 59,387]

Just now, MKMK said:

Yea.. not obsessed.. it’s just not too hard to notice you spreading negativity on this forum and believe me it’s not allowed in here. I suggest you stop. Have a nice day 

[Antoni 5,332]

I love this theory and it's definitely backed up by the promo single history in her career, but want to add some intel to the OP if that's okay.

BTW: 1) Marry The Night was supposed to be the first single. That's what Gaga wanted, anyway. At least that's what everyone on this forum back in 2011 believed or had heard in an interview or whatever. My theory is that she wanted MTN before Born This Way was a whole concept for the album. 2) Judas wasn't a label pick as far as we know, that was Gaga's choice, too. She wanted to be controversial, and she seemed so excited about the song. She had so much control over that song that she made the single art using a friggin Word document and a cellphone camera, and the label didn't fight her. 3) Not a correction but want to say you're spot on about You & I. It did extremely well but was a label decision to try and duplicate the success of TEOG, and we missed out on more of Gaga's vision because of it. I vaguely remember her saying she wanted Government Hooker as a single, too. 

ARTPOP: This era was ruined before the DWUW / Venus switcheroo. Applause was not as big a hit with the GP as we convinced ourselves it was. The promo for it was HUGE so it felt like a massive moment in her career, but talk is not the same as success. The song sucked compared to every previous lead single (JD, BR, BTW), the GP didn't understand a lot of the lyrics, and she was faking being into it. She has admitted before that she was rushed to come up with the video concept and film it, and she was rushed to perform while still in pain and recovering from her surgery. Even more upsetting is that she doesn't like the song. She said in an interview (sorry it's been too long to remember which one) that she was against ever releasing Applause, but Troy thought it would be a huge hit with fans and on radio and drove her to put it on the album. Then he went into a meeting with the label to talk about what she wanted for the lead single, and by the end of the meeting they'd agreed on Applause instead of the song she wanted him to fight for. She wasn't even in the meeting if I remember correctly. If it were up to her, the first single would have been Aura, then Venus. I don't know if she's ever said that publicly about Aura, but according to someone in her inner circle that I've been friends with since 2013, that's the reason she leaked Aura (the good version where she's kind of screaming the verses, not the album version where she's talking). I think she thought of it as the next "holy **** what direction is Lady Gaga taking" single like Bad Romance was, where for weeks radio and the GP wouldn't stop talking about this new sound and what it says about the upcoming album. It also best reflected the original, experimental version of the album that she was working on before she broke her hip. She did NOT want our first taste of the album to be Applause, but it was clear that the label would never push Aura to radio. So Venus was definitely her chance to be "that" Gaga again, like you said. 

Lastly, to the user who told the OP to get a life: news flash, Gaga is a huge part of life for some of us. Don't yuck our yum. First graders have better manners than you. 

[hausofcy 20,325]

What a nice read! Your analysis is great up until the last part. INLA would never be biggen than shallow. It’s a very good emotional (one of my fave) gaga songs but you can’t deny the similarities to IWALY. I think shallow became as big as it has is just of how unconvential this song is. That’s why it’s a hit and serves longevity

[ImTired 3,955]

2 hours ago, hellothing said:

Before reacting LMAO, hear me out. This is a long read, but it's worth it I promise (I guess ).

Gaga's career post-TFM has been quite interesting to follow. When Judas came out, it was the start of the immense backlash that continued until the end of ARTPOP. After Judas, her first single flop, The Edge of Glory was released as a buzz/promo single. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but from what the rumors around that time were saying, she was supposed to release Marry the Night as the next single (Marry the Night was also rumored to be the lead single off Born This Way, but was eventually pushed back until the fifth single because of the unexpected problems Judas caused. This is another thread.); but, because of the overwhelming success of The Edge of Glory, her team made her first major single switcheroo.

Don't get me wrong, The Edge of Glory deserved to be a single. It's a great song, and it's considered a classic by fans and non-fans alike. So what's wrong about this?

My views on this are controversial. The switch was made at a time when Gaga had a specific plan in mind for the era. Remember the music video fiasco regarding the mermaid? This was not implemented because The Edge of Glory wasn't the initial plan for the third single. It's because they were conceptualizing in a rush. Who's to say that the timing constraint didn't put unnecessary pressure between Gaga and the director which added to the stress that lead to 'artistic differences'?

She did get her mermaid concept music video during You and I; but, the song, great as it is, was not the juggernaut that could have brought back the success of the era. The single after Judas was supposed to be controversy-repairwork. The less than stellar visuals for The Edge of Glory really hurt the triage after Judas, especially when people expected visuals from Lady Freaking Gaga during her prime, a very visual-heavy artist.

By the time Marry the Night rolled around, the era's long dead. Her first single that peaked outside the top ten officially ended her imperial phase. This severely dictated the momentum for her next era.

Enter ARTPOP. Still riding the backlash from overexposure, injury, and controversy from BTW, Applause underperformed as a lead single. It did hold well under all the scrutiny and she was able to serve a hit. We were in for a very ambitious album with unrestricted visuals with Venus on the way.

But then, Do What U Want reared it's ugly head (I'm sorry for calling DWUW ugly, it's my favorite ARTPOP song to the deathzies). They did the switcheroo AGAIN. This time, rushing for visuals and in pain, Gaga rushed headlong to controversy after Applause's wasted image repairwork. If this didn't end up as a single, I have a feeling that the scrutiny between her and R Kelly wouldn't have been as pronounced. We all know what happened with the MV, don't we? Gaga realized her mistake and didn't release the video. This was an era suicide at this point. ARTPOP couldn't take a hiatus, not when she needed a hit so badly. This my friends, made ARTPOP, ARTFLOP.

Sure, there are many factors that killed this era. But the MV and floppage of a potential second single almost singlehandedly did it. When G.U.Y. came around, nobody was interested in Gaga anymore.

Cheek to Cheek was a wise move. This lowkey repaired her image, and she recuperated.

When Joanne was released, she was in an interesting position. Nobody was expecting anything overly successful from her. This gave her the freedom to choose any single from her album without the fear of underperforming. Why did you think they picked Perfect Illusion as lead? Now, Gaga wanted A-Yo as the second single but because of the immense success of Million Reasons, they switched it up again.

'So, hellothing, Million Reasons was the monster hit that A-Yo dreams to be. You're opinion is wrong, you delusional daddy!'

Well, gay fan, because she wasn't as scrutinized during this era, the switch was less harmful. What's her worst music video? What? Oh, it's MILLION REASONS.

Do you notice the trend? Every time a single switcheroo happens, the visuals suffer. Joanne did not suffer as heavily with the lacking visuals because a) Gaga focused more on the music and less on the videos, and b) she had the Super Bowl to back up Million Reasons's promo. You do have to at least admit that MR's MV sucks.

So, are buzz singles still hurting, or at least containing Gaga from epic levels of success today? Here's where we're going to venture to conspiracy land. Shallow was meant to be a buzz single, and her epic comeback was impeded by this decision.

OK OK HEAR ME OUT. Shallow is a monster hit. It is. No one can deny that. But I'll ask you this - What song from A Star Is Born was designed to be the biggest song in the soundtrack? Which song had two versions? Which song was the ****ing FINALE?

I'll Never Love Again was supposed to be the HIT of the soundtrack. It was supposed to be promoted heavily, receiving the single treatment. I strongly believe that if the buzz/promo single AKA Shallow didn't overshadow INLA, I'll Never Love Again would have turned out to be the monster Adele-sized, I Will Always Love You ballad hit that A Star Is Born could have served.

I believe that I'll Never Love Again could have been double the hit that Shallow could ever be.

I love her success, don't get me wrong. I just had this thought that if her promo/buzz singles didn't exist, we could be standing in a very different place. Still, when all's said and done, I am hoping for Gaga to win that Oscar for Shallow.

Rant/Conspiracy/Rambling over. Hellothing OUT!

I'm sorry, but they included Shallow in the first trailer and it blew up from there. I think they knew that all plans were off with any other song on the soundtrack after the "Ahhhhhhhhhhaaa Ahhhhh ahhhhh" thing took off after that first trailer. AND they released it a week early for Grammy eligibility. They knew it was THAT hit...

[Serial Chiller 8,044]

Oh please, INLA is cute and all but Shallow is iconic. Also, the second song to be in line for success would be ARUTW, if it was pushed. I mean the stats speak for themselves. 

[Zaskar 3,926]

Agree with everything, except INLA will never be as big as Shallow no matter what!

 

[BenG 19,908]

INLA would have been dubbed the poor man's version of a Whitney ballad. Shallow was fresh and unique, and it can stand on its own. That alone makes it much better than INLA.

[That J 12,166]

"Alot of people compare Madonna's work with Lady Gaga's, and in most cases the younger model has found ways to do it bigger, weirder and more disturbingly than her predecessor. But there is one place where Gaga can't hold a candle to Madonna, and that's pissing off the Catholic Church.

Back in 1989, Madonna's "Like a Prayer" managed to get the Vatican to release a statement condemning the video as blasphemous. Down the line, it was voted the most groundbreaking music video of all time. Lady Gaga was trying to cash in on some of that controversy with her new song "Judas," but ultimately the video was too confusing to upset anyone.

The narrative is pretty straightforward: Jesus is a Latin biker who goes clubbing with Mary Magdalene (Gaga). He and Judas get into a bar fight. It just doesn't have the same sacrilegious flavor of "Like a Prayer": In straight narrative terms it's more like one of those corny "updated" Bible stories you'd hear in Sunday school. Catholic League president Bill Donohue wouldn't even deign to call the video "anti-Catholic": In her "Judas" video, Lady Gaga plays fast and loose with Catholic iconography, and generates several untoward statements, but she typically dances on the line without going over it. Perhaps that is because the video is a mess. Incoherent, it leaves the viewer more perplexed than moved. The faux-baptismal scene is a curious inclusion, as is her apparent fondness for the Jesus character. But if anyone thinks the Catholic League is going to go ballistic over Lady Gaga’s latest contribution, they haven’t a clue about what really constitutes anti-Catholicism. Lady Gaga probably had a whole statement prepared for when the church condemned her, about the rights of artistic freedom or some such. Now she's going to have to save that until her next video, when she is forced to kiss a girl or promote condom use in order to provoke a reaction."

That was the consensus of the Judas video, which is one of my fave videos ever by the way.  

However, the JUDAS saga is ONLY controversial to people in the fanbase. It wasnt big news at all.  Lol. 

The single was a top ten hit so it is even hard to call it a flop. The Edge Of Glory which followed it was a big hit for Gaga. 

The only issue around this time was too much too soon. She was EVERYWHERE and needed to take some time away to not exhaust the market. 

As far as Shallow goes, it was BOUND to be the hit they leaned on. Just watch all the initial trailers. I like your post and what you are getting at but I respectfully disagree.

[Quartz 12,535]

2 minutes ago, MonsterOfSpain said:

Boys Boys Boys was meant to be the 5th single after Paparazzi but they decided to scrap it and go straight with BR and TFM era

That's interesting. I always thought that BDR was released way before Poker Face that's why I didn't count it as a switch. In my mind, it was just a normal buzz single before the official single. 

[MaryJaneHolland 77,348]

Well maybe INLA was the finale, but the Shallow performance was when the star was born