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Gaga: "I ran away from Stefani & put on a superhero cape called Lady Gaga"

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Ronlop

It's pretty obvious Gaga is not the same woman she was in the past. She became famous due to her gimmicks and her avant-garde character was obviously pushed further by herself and her management, team to keep the brand selling.

That doesn't mean she didn't believe what she did was genuine then. Anyone who would take pop music so seriously to believe Gaga is your mother, mother monster or some other corny concept is the one who is deluded and you shouldn't blame Gaga for "misleading" you. She was an entertainer in and outside of her live shows and now she isn't. "I'd die for my fans" was a statement made for entertainment. That's the only difference.

I can understand that for many of you Gaga changed your life in some way or another or gave you strength and a feeling of empowerment. But you can not expect a woman to enslave herself to you always and serve the powerful avant-garde fashionista relevant pop artist character forever. And no one even said she won't give you that in the future in some way.

She's 32 years old. It's been more than decade since she first began and she changed like every other human being. She has different goals in her life and she learned and experienced alot.

As much as some of us want the old Gaga to come back, she never will. But that doesn't mean she won't re-invent herself to something  that would remind us of that old Gaga in a modern way and for that, I'm excited for what's to come.

Edited by Ronlop
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M Monstre
12 minutes ago, Didymus said:

But it's not that lol, you guys keep focusing on the wrong thing.

What makes this a tough pill to swallow for fans is that the moment she started talking about Gaga as a mask she completely changed up her visual and musical appearance and output to the point of unrecognizability :laughga:

What's hard for fans to grasp is how easily she's let go of exactly what so many fans thought was special, unique and original about her.

She's said numerous times that Gaga is a mask for her to be fearless, confident, etc. Gaga and Stefani are the same individual. The difference is that Stefani uses "Gaga" in order to be more confident in the public eye. It's not like she's completely shedding away her persona or anything. 

We also always have this discussion because once in a while she'll come up with statements like this one and all of a sudden people don't "know" who Gaga is, yet they still stay on this forum. Stefani is just as creative, artistically "weird" and "crazy", compassionate, loving, etc. as Gaga is. Gaga is just the platform for which she expresses her creative endeavours.

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Didymus
Just now, Ronlop said:

Anyone who would take pop music so seriously to believe Gaga is your mother, mother monster or some other corny concept is the one who is deluded and you shouldn't blame Gaga for "misleading" you.

Wow. No. Sorry, but that is really mean and demeaning.

Even if those people were "mentally weak" on that level, she still absolutely, and deliberately, exploited that weakness :smh: There's no way you can put 100% on the blame on the individuals themselves. That is a total co-dependent relationship.

2 minutes ago, Ronlop said:

As much as some of us want the old Gaga to come back, she never will. But that doesn't mean she won't re-invent herself to something  that would remind us of that old Gaga in a modern way and for that, I'm excited for what's to come. 

Very much agreed with this though.

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OG Gaga Stan
6 hours ago, Didymus said:

It's a little tiring to keep on hearing about how her non-Gaga projects are the most inspiring, most fulfilling and most creative work she's ever done :messga: I thought we finally left that behind after C2C where she never stopped babbling about how Tony finally taught her how to be a true artist :saladga:

On the other hand, I can understand.

And on one other hand, it could really just be promo talk we'll hear every single time.

Either way, it's becoming more and more unclear who we're supposed to be stanning for imo :cryga: I mean, she literally said Ally was not Lady Gaga (or even Stefani) and now she's saying it's the most fulfilling artistic endeavor she's ever taken on? :koons: I've been lost when it comes to understanding who she is since 2015.

This has really bothered me for the past four or five years. I can't stand how she constantly belittles her previous work with these hyperbolic claims, work that was infinitely more challenging, complex, and ambitious (both formally and intellectually) than any of the "authentic" work she's put out since. It's a lame marketing tactic and it's transparently inauthentic. We all know why she's doing it; she wants the public to love her and she wants to sell whatever project she's promoting, but the Gaga I started stanning back in 2008 truly made all of us original fans believe that she'd never sell out or put on an act like that for public approval. She speaks in this overly-mannered, affected way, carefully constructs these faux-heart-warming emotional speeches that she repeats over and over again and pushes herself to cry constantly in interviews and it's going to start working against her. People have already started noticing it (the "100 people in a room" thing becoming a meme is funny, but going back and watching her deliver that same line over and over again with this self-important gravitas as if what she's saying is profound is even more uncomfortable now than it was before). 

And the newer, elitist anti-pop fans that truly think Gaga can do no wrong always rush to defend her, make fun of anyone who has a problem with the way she's chosen to abandon everything that made us love her in the beginning, and pretend that this is a sign of growth, somehow, that she's actually "matured" by embracing a watered-down version of who she told us she really was for years and ejecting all of her ambition in the process, embracing this adult-contemporary top 40 sound with this maudlin approach to everything. The idea that "Lady Gaga" wasn't a reflection of who she really is and that it was all an act is a betrayal, full-stop, and it means that she lied to us for years to sell records. I'm still here because I don't believe her.

The point is: This is clearly a marketing tactic to appeal to Oscar voters and the general public. I get it. I get that she has to play the game, to a certain extent. That doesn't mean we have to like it, especially when it's obvious that she's being inauthentic.

I'll go back to praising her now, Joannesters, don't worry. :vegas: 

Edited by OG Gaga Stan
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27monster27
8 hours ago, Lippoutou said:

Yet in 2011 she shouted everywhere that Stefani and Gaga are the exact same person and if you called her Stefani you didn't understand anything. I don't know how to feel about it.

She was probably so used to "Lady Gaga" that she lost sight in being called Stefani.

STAN: Lady Gaga, Ariana Grande, Madonna, Nicki Minaj, Britney Spears, and Froy Gutierrez.
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giskardsb
22 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Of course not. Why would we be interested in seeing her real self? :diane:

I'm not. I wanna see her imagination, her creativity, her ideas, her dreams, her passions, her mental vomit. I couldn't care less about Stefani. She once seemed to understand that she was interesting exactly because she kept her personal life private, secret even, and just focusing on the art.

That's what pulled a lot of people in, who needed that fantasy and drama in their lives, who understood and appreciated it. I don't get how so many people are surprised we're bored as hell with all this "I just love walking in my garden, feeding my chickens" nonsense. It doesn't mean we don't care about her, it just means we'd rather focus on the work. You know, which once she prided herself on.

but you are wrong if you think she doesn't pride herself on her work now.  But her work has changed.

I'm a different kind of fan  I guess, probably because I'm a rock and jazz guy and generally think pop has way too much poor musicianship and superficial junk.  So that is my background to take into account.  I ignored Gaga because it overwhelming looked like she was all about spectacle.  Until she was a around a while and I finally started unearthing the real musician underneath, thats when I became a fan.   You could say I had to find Stefani in order to appreciate Gaga.  I later grew to appreciate what she does above and beyond her vocal talent, but that has always just been "extra" stuff I can take or leave.

You said earlier that she owed fans an explanation.  I'd say over the last ten years, she has lived her life almost completely in public, she's gone through injuries, mental health issues, relationships, etc, and she's even talked about a lot of these things publicly in various interviews. I don't know what she would say about why she's different now that isn't pretty obvious from evidence and the life changes.   Why would anyone expect her to be the same.

I also think the initial perception by many that she was all fluff and superficiality really affected her.  She IS a true musician, trained, and fantastic at what she does.   Its no surprise she has moved towards ways of emphasizing her musical ability, which she spent years of hard work to develop.   it's also no purprise that the Super Bowl was not a Madonna or Katy spectacle, which she would have done earlier.   Instead it was pop, but emphasized the songs, vocals, and performance ability that is innately Gaga/Stefani.

Now maybe in your mind Gaga could have done that while still maintaining the performance art part, and she probably could have, but the way she has gone about it providing a clean break that says "this is about vocals, not performance art" helped the public get past their preconceptions.  And I don't mean the pop public, I mean the real public, of all demographics, that have accepted her now as a legit, fabulous musician, and have now supported her acting career.

I think many fans just don't like that they don't "own" her anymore.  She is loved by more than her initial pop fan base, on her way to becoming an icon loved for both her music and acting talent, and NOT just because she wears a shitload of clothes and is a "weird" arty girl.  And for the musician and actress named Stefani, THAT is probably all she wanted from age 4.

Edited by giskardsb
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M Monstre
2 minutes ago, Didymus said:

See, that's what I don't like. I already thought of her as an actress, a jazz and a rock singer before 2014 :messga: She already showed us all of those talents. She was already always more than a pop singer, so that doesn't add anything new to the conversation to me. Expanding your performance skills and exploring new media platforms shouldn't mean changing up your entire personality and artistic presentation :interestinga:

 

To you, perhaps, but to the majority of people out there all she was was the "crazy, weird pop star who made 'Just Dance' and 'Bad Romance'". 

As for "changing up her entire personality and artistic presentation", I believe that comes with her ageing. Sure, 32 itself isn't old, but after a literal decade in the music industry, she's changing. That's just normal for a person to do. She's still creative, artistically rebellious, imaginative, etc. That hasn't really shown yet because ASIB was not her project. She was a part of it, but didn't have full artistic control. Once LG6 comes around, she will have free range to do whatever she wants.

3 minutes ago, Didymus said:

100% agreed.

It's just odd that she says that about a jazz cover album and a feature film and not about her own work. Even when counting in the insecurity thing you mentioned, if anything, that shows she may be better thought of as a singer and an actress, and not a musician/artist :duck:

 

I get what you mean, but I just think it's different for Gaga, you know. I mean, we don't know her personal life or even her professional life all that well. There are definitely more things she's not telling us if she has this grandiose statement that says "I ran away from Stefani for so long". She does feel confident with her work, I just think that because she's such a people-person and she loves to have people around her, working intimately with other people is different. She can bounce creative, artistic ideas of off each other, she finds it inspirational in a different way than just writing music by herself. I mean, she also said similar things about Ronson, and that was for her own music. 

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Didymus
1 minute ago, OG Gaga Stan said:

the newer, elitist anti-pop fans that truly think Gaga can do no wrong always rush to defend her, make fun of anyone who has a problem with the way she's chosen to abandon everything that made us love her in the beginning, and pretend that this is a sign of growth, somehow, that she's actually "matured" by embracing a watered-down version of who she told us she really was for years and ejecting all of her ambition in the process, embracing this Adult-contemporary top 40 sound with this maudlin approach to everything. The idea that "Lady Gaga" wasn't a reflection of who she really is and that it was all an act is a betrayal, full-stop, and it means that she lied to us for years to sell records. I'm still here because I don't believe her. 

The point is: This is clearly a marketing tactic to appeal to Oscar voters and the general public. I get it. I get that she has to play the game, to a certain extent. That doesn't mean we have to like it, especially when it's obvious that she's being inauthentic.

Well, you put it very candidly (very nice choice of words, you have a gift for biting yet intellectually stimulating posts lol, love it) but I completely agree :queenga::applause:

It's led me to believe that many fans just didn't really understand what was special about her in the first place. When I see some people here referring to her 2008-2009 period as "just pop" or "empty" I'm absolutely baffled. Did they not see the hundred and one cultural references in her visual output? Did they not understand how her chosen sound was challenging and original in so many ways?

Apparently some fans just appreciate the more mainstream, less forward-thinking, more conventional, easy-on-the-ear and eyes version of Gaga, while still enjoying the idea that they're supposedly stanning for someone who is an avant-garde genius anyway who shits on other pop stars for that reason, despite not doing anything remarkable in comparison. That sounds like something a lot of people would fall for :koons:

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OG Gaga Stan
1 minute ago, giskardsb said:

I think many fans just don't like that they don't "own" her anymore.  She is loved by more than her initial pop fan base, on her way to becoming an icon loved for both her music and acting talent, and NOT just because she wears a shitload of clothes and is a weird girl.  

 

11 minutes ago, Ronlop said:

I can understand that for many of you Gaga changed your life in some way or another or gave you strength and a feeling of empowerment. But you can not expect a woman to enslave herself to you always and serve the powerful avant-garde fashionista relevant pop artist character forever. And no one even said she won't give you that in the future in some way.

This sentiment really, really bothers me, and I keep seeing it being repeated over and over again on here in a way that I find really irritating. The idea that original fans at one point did and are currently attempting to own her or control her is disgusting. We did not ever own her, nor did we think we did. We admired her for her own art, her own perspective, and we think she's deliberately sanded off her rough edges to appeal to a broader audience in a way that we find inauthentic. It's not that we don't want her to "grow" (god, I'd love some genuine, intellectual growth and ambition out of the next Gaga album); it's that we don't buy this development as "growth." It feels like she's sliding into conformity, becoming like every other rich white celebrity that palls around with other millionaires at cocktail parties that she  mocked and rebelled against in her early work. I don't find that to be "growth" or an indication of newfound "maturity."

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Didymus
4 minutes ago, giskardsb said:

I'm a different kind of fan  I guess, probably because I'm a rock and jazz guy and generally think pop has way too much poor musicianship and superficial junk.  So that is my background to take into account.

I despise most pop music. Doesn't make me love The Fame any less. That was Gaga at her most creative, postmodern and culturally challenging. That even her fans don't understand that makes me really sad.

5 minutes ago, giskardsb said:

Why would anyone expect her to be the same.

Because she claimed to be in control, to know what she was doing, to portray an act in public, to be a "con artist of fame". I'm not expecting her to not be affected by her emotional troubles. I just didn't expect she assumed we cared. I'm just here for the art. Her feelings she should keep for her shrink. Sorry if that sounds mean, but that's the way it is for me.

All this babbling about what she's going through is an excuse to not create anything artistically. Stone me, but, yeah, that's what I believe. She's either lazy artistically or she's so far up her own ass that she actually thinks her descriptions about life in a Malibu mansion are somehow relevant for her fans and, even worse, the wider public. Or both.

She used to be all about the work and not at all about her personal life. That's something to applaud in this industry. I'm not going to applaud her for turning her back on that philosophy now. I don't know why anyone else does, it's weak and superficial. So she's a human being, so what? We all are. That is not some huge revelation to me. Literally every pop star nowadays brags about their mental problems. I think that's vain, insulting and very unhealthy for the fans.

9 minutes ago, giskardsb said:

the way she has gone about it providing a clean break that says "this is about vocals, not performance art" helped the public get past their preconceptions.

But who cares about public perception? I thought she was different. I thought she wanted to bring the avant-garde into the mainstream, actually make a difference. Are we supposed to cheer her on while she is teaching her fans to appeal to the status quo, to get people's attention and approval simply because.. well, you can?

No. She looked us dead in the eye in early 2014 after she went viral with a performance in which a girl vomited on her, something she bravely called "art", and told us she would rather go back to singing in an irrelevant bar than to let the pressure of the industry to get to her. To not criticize her for betraying that laudable philosophy would be to have no spine and to make excuses for what's essentially a rich woman living in an overpriced home, expecting us to contribute to her wealth without delivering the goods. Sorry.

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OG Gaga Stan
7 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Well, you put it very candidly (very nice choice of words, you have a gift for biting yet intellectually stimulating posts lol, love it) but I completely agree :queenga::applause:

It's led me to believe that many fans just didn't really understand what was special about her in the first place. When I see some people here referring to her 2008-2009 period as "just pop" or "empty" I'm absolutely baffled. Did they not see the hundred and one cultural references in her visual output? Did they not understand how her chosen sound was challenging and original in so many ways?

Apparently some fans just appreciate the more mainstream, less forward-thinking, more conventional, easy-on-the-ear and eyes version of Gaga, while still enjoying the idea that they're supposedly stanning for someone who is an avant-garde genius anyway who shits on other pop stars for that reason, despite not doing anything remarkable in comparison. That sounds like something a lot of people would fall for :koons:

Thank you! Ugh. Someone else that gets it. 

I'll keep waiting for her ambition to come back. Hopefully she finds it again. 

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Bambino

This woman is complicating things about her identity once again upon the release of every project she does. Stefani or Gaga or whatever she sees herself as, she was much more interesting back in the day, artistically, musically and culturally.

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Ronlop
24 minutes ago, OG Gaga Stan said:

 

This sentiment really, really bothers me, and I keep seeing it being repeated over and over again on here in a way that I find really irritating. The idea that original fans at one point did and are currently attempting to own her or control her is disgusting. We did not ever own her, nor did we think we did. We admired her for her own art, her own perspective, and we think she's deliberately sanded off her rough edges to appeal to a broader audience in a way that we find inauthentic. It's not that we don't want her to "grow" (god, I'd love some genuine, intellectual growth and ambition out of the next Gaga album); it's that we don't buy this development as "growth." It feels like she's sliding into conformity, becoming like every other rich white celebrity that palls around with other millionaires at cocktail parties that she  mocked and rebelled against in her early work. I don't find that to be "growth" or an indication of newfound "maturity."

But we are. Look at some of the comments. Alot of fans really expect Gaga to be the crazy pop star with the strange outfits and the huge dance records because that's what she was in the past and why they became fans in the first place. So essentially, what dictated this fanbase's image of Gaga are few or maybe several good memories from 2008-2013.

And she had to keep that image up until 2014 when she first broke it by doing a jazz record with Tony Bennet, later on releasing a folk-americana album in 2016 which is very off-brand if you ask me. It's a risk and she created new career routes for herself and did exactly what was her own perspective. No one wanted that from Lady Gaga but she did it anyways.

If you doubt the final result of these career choices, that's a different story and I can't argue with you on that because that's up to your taste. But you can tell they came from a genuine place and was her way to rebel against what she is expected to do by her critics, media and the fans.

Sliding into conformity could be seen as growth. Her going to rich people cocktail parties and living her life in her $24m mansion in Malibu could be where she feels more comfortable now. She can't live a more artsy, rebellious lifestyle in New York like she used to because she is famous and her Malibu residency allows her to live peacefully which is what everyone wants at the end of the day. You are not in a room to judge her for that especially when you didn't go through what she went through but you can be disappointed because you expect something different from her. But again, that's you putting her in a box.

She's still very much passionate in the work she does. She gives her own say into everything and she even still gives you throwbacks to her old-self at times. But she tries to live a normal life when she's not on stage unlike in the past. Is she interesting now? Not really. Could she be interesting again? Definitely and that's why I'm still here. 

 

 

 

Edited by Ronlop
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gumzy3000

I do remember her saying to people years ago to not call her Stefani and to call her only Gaga or Lady Gaga. When I think about it from her shoes, it is clear she was extremely ambitious and hardworking. During this time (2008 to 2015ish), she was in her twenties with all the energy and rage that comes with it. She was building her CAREER and she wasn't going to let her past come in the way. She was creating a character and an iteam to sell with hypercommercialism. Yes, she did become extremely successful and iconic but I am sure it took a massive toll on her. She broke her hip, had depression, loneliness, anxiety, breakups, probably lost family and friends, was even perhaps pressured to things she didn't want to do by her record label and she even had a drug period where she was smoking pot a lot (2012ish). Not to mention the media was borderline abusive to her during 2013-2014.

What I am trying to say is that she went through a lot to create "Lady Gaga" and when she says she found Stefani, she is talking about going back to her roots and rebuilding the relationships she had with her friends and family. Also, I think this also means she is putting herself first for once and she is doing what is best for her mental and physical state.  

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