Berlin: BDS is a antisemitic and reason for rising antisemitism

[Guest Anisko]

11 hours ago, Cocaine Heart said:

The part everyone is choosing to ignore where will she perform in Palestine.
Maybe she can sing Born To Die outside the Gaza border or maybe Money Power Glory in the West Bank as the homes of the people living there are being destroyed. I wonder. 

This is the best comment about Lana's whole mess in performing in Israel..  It's funny but it's soo sad at the same time when u think about it .. 

I'm half jewish but i can't support Israel...  And I feel ashamed of people supporting such country 

[Melech 9,900]

10 hours ago, Guillaume Hamon said:

They is the folks from the pro-Israel lobbies that we hear about. There's some balanced ones but they're not given a huge platforms most of the time so we rarely hear about these.

The ones we hear about have this habit of calling every body who... ( Let's say disagree with Benjamin netanyaou for example ) a jew-haters and compare them to Nazis. Even when the person simply disagree which has nothing to do with hating on jews...

When did I say antisemitism wasn't real? How can you understand something I clearly didn't say?

Yes, you dismissed it. Disagreeing with Israel’s right to exist is anti Semitic. 

Jews in Us campus are getting harassed for being Jewish by BDS people. BDS is violent. Period. 

[Guillaume Hamon 7,046]

9 hours ago, Melech said:

Yes, you dismissed it. Disagreeing with Israel’s right to exist is anti Semitic. 

Jews in Us campus are getting harassed for being Jewish by BDS people. BDS is violent. Period. 

I said disagreeing with an Israeli politic was not having a problem with jews. That doesn't mean I said antisemitism is not a thing, just that having this view is not an act of antisemitism.

Mmh... But saying they should stop expanding is not disagreeing with "Israel right to exist" tho,  it's just saying that they should exist as they are now and not expand more... Why do you say I don't want Israel to exist when I never said it?

So if SOME PEOPLE backing bds hate jews it means bds is an antisemitic action? That's the hell of a reach and you know it. Just say bds piss you off instead of jumping to conclusions that work for your narrative. It's dishonest.

[Melech 9,900]

13 hours ago, Guillaume Hamon said:

o if SOME PEOPLE backing bds hate jews it means bds is an antisemitic action? That's the hell of a reach and you know it. Just say bds piss you off instead of jumping to conclusions that work for your narrative. It's dishonest.

BDS yelled down a Holocaust survivor. The leader of BDS called for destruction of Israel. BDS South Africa yelled anti Semitic slurs. BDS in US campus threating Jewish students.

[Guillaume Hamon 7,046]

6 hours ago, Melech said:

BDS yelled down a Holocaust survivor. The leader of BDS called for destruction of Israel. BDS South Africa yelled anti Semitic slurs. BDS in US campus threating Jewish students.

I bet there's anti-palestinians among Israel supporters as well yet I'm not telling you it makes pro-Israel cause a violent cause. You can't dismiss a movement backed by a lot of person by only seing the bad seeds. It's not intellectually honest.

[Melech 9,900]

1 hour ago, Guillaume Hamon said:

I bet there's anti-palestinians among Israel supporters as well yet I'm not telling you it makes pro-Israel cause a violent cause. You can't dismiss a movement backed by a lot of person by only seing the bad seeds. It's not intellectually honest.

So, you would also say that Republicans are generally more racist ?

I have yet to see BDS making statements against antisemitic tendencies.

[River 128,535]

Like in every group, there are bad seeds, so yeah there is a small amount of people who use BDS to show to the world their antisemitism, so it's BDS job to kick them..

But BDS do it all wrong, their fight makes Netanyahu stronger and stronger and hurting the Palestinians, you are boycotting people that in their mind by default, you hate them, so this thought, when someone like Netanyahu is using to rise, it's makes the support in him to rise a lot, like after Lana he gained more and more votes.

BDS is more serving Netanyahu than the Palestinians at the end, this is not the way to replace this government and to kick out the devil..

[Guillaume Hamon 7,046]

18 hours ago, Melech said:

So, you would also say that Republicans are generally more racist ?

I have yet to see BDS making statements against antisemitic tendencies.

What the point with republicans? I'm telling you that you can't sum up a group to the actions of some of his members...

As soon as they will do so everybody will just say "oh they're fighting anti-semites in their group it probably was more a anti-jew thing than a serous cause" and folks will label it like a fishy/ borderline anti-jew group. We never hear about BDS in my country so if the only times they're discussed in medias it's to discuss the bad seeds in their group everybody will only know that from them, more than their message.

[Guillaume Hamon 7,046]

18 hours ago, River said:

Like in every group, there are bad seeds, so yeah there is a small amount of people who use BDS to show to the world their antisemitism, so it's BDS job to kick them..

But BDS do it all wrong, their fight makes Netanyahu stronger and stronger and hurting the Palestinians, you are boycotting people that in their mind by default, you hate them, so this thought, when someone like Netanyahu is using to rise, it's makes the support in him to rise a lot, like after Lana he gained more and more votes.

BDS is more serving Netanyahu than the Palestinians at the end, this is not the way to replace this government and to kick out the devil..

Boycotting folks make them think that, by default, we hate them? I don't think they're that simplistic&naive over there. They know well it's to stop Israel expansion so they ( or the big majority of them at least ) know it's not about hating on them.

Local folks who pretend to feel this way are probably want to look like victims to deflect the fact they're not really trying to avoid the conflict with Palestinians at all. They say "everybody hate us and won't see that we're attacked by palestinians" to play the misunderstood card and avoid to discuss any change that would bring better conditions for peace.

So if BDS is not the good way what chance is there to make them change a part of their politic? Negotiations are going nowhere since decades and decades... Money is always the nerve of pretty much everything.   

[Melech 9,900]

2 hours ago, Guillaume Hamon said:

What the point with republicans? I'm telling you that you can't sum up a group to the actions of some of his members...

As soon as they will do so everybody will just say "oh they're fighting anti-semites in their group it probably was more a anti-jew thing than a serous cause" and folks will label it like a fishy/ borderline anti-jew group. We never hear about BDS in my country so if the only times they're discussed in medias it's to discuss the bad seeds in their group everybody will only know that from them, more than their message.

Excuse me? It’s anti-jewish af, it has parallels to the don’t buy at jewish stores in Nazi germany. Their message is wrong and false. 

Since you support the BDS, do you also boycott China? Or you only support BDS cause it targets Jews? 

[River 128,535]

5 hours ago, Guillaume Hamon said:

Boycotting folks make them think that, by default, we hate them? I don't think they're that simplistic&naive over there. They know well it's to stop Israel expansion so they ( or the big majority of them at least ) know it's not about hating on them.

Local folks who pretend to feel this way are probably want to look like victims to deflect the fact they're not really trying to avoid the conflict with Palestinians at all. They say "everybody hate us and won't see that we're attacked by palestinians" to play the misunderstood card and avoid to discuss any change that would bring better conditions for peace.

So if BDS is not the good way what chance is there to make them change a part of their politic? Negotiations are going nowhere since decades and decades... Money is always the nerve of pretty much everything.   

Hey

From your post I see that you don't really understand the Israeli mind, it's very different and to understand the conflict, you need to understand the player, that it's far from bad/good..

They are not "white privileged" but they are "religious privileged" and "post-WW2 privileged", it's important thing to understand.

I'm Israeli and I lived with them and I'm interacting with them every day.

See, since we are young they teach us this:

1. we are the chosen people by god

2. Arabs are the enemy except for countries we have peace with and they hate us

3. Everyone hates us abroad so be careful and don't show that you are a jew/Israeli.

So when a group that is pro-Palestinians and explicitly "hurting" Israel and Israelis, it's immediately labeled as antisemitic and hateful, it's not to be naive, it's to see a group of people who are going against them, they don't see this as BDS vs government.. it's BDS vs. the common people.. at the end they are losing, not the government.

The government is led by people that don't care if Lana or anyone will cancel, they don't even know who are those people, what they know is that they have another card to show to everyone that "everyone once again hates us and we need to be strong".

It's the use of the holocaust trauma that we still have in Israel against us in some sense.

But as Israeli who lives abroad, I can say that yes, I need to think twice if to say that I'm from Israel, because the income can be supportive or it can be very hateful, violent (verbally mostly) or like "Israeli pig, kids killer" even though I didn't serve the military, but just being Israeli I'm labeled as one without knowing me..

Now, for the common people, the Palestinians are the bad guys and you can't blame them, you see it as an outsider, see it from the insider mind, the Palestinians hurt them too, killed and injured, so they will never care about them, they want the "problem" to be solved no matter what.. so there are no victims here really, they kill each other all the time..

You will never know how it was for a kid to live during the second Intifiada when you could be bombed when taking a bus or you will never know how is it to be outside when there's an alarm and a rocket is flying above you..

And you will never know how is it to lose a mother for one of those ("plastic home made" as some says) rockets, but I know.

So look, there are victims in both sides, all have story, we all have, this conflict took too much lives, so it's just wrong to see it as bad/good and to victims/no victims.. we are all victims of this conflict at the end, it f-cked our minds, we see the world differently...

[Guillaume Hamon 7,046]

On 9/4/2018 at 2:00 PM, Melech said:

Excuse me? It’s anti-jewish af, it has parallels to the don’t buy at jewish stores in Nazi germany. Their message is wrong and false. 

Since you support the BDS, do you also boycott China? Or you only support BDS cause it targets Jews? 

And here we go with the absurd nazi comparisons... Always the victimization card used even when it's not valid just to appear like you make a point...

Not buying from jews simply cause they're jews in nazi germany has nothing to do with doing a boycott to try to make a country change a policy... But you know it very well. That's just one more dishonest line from you.

Yep I don't buy "made in china" stuffs neither since I try to do responsible purchase. I don't say I'll never make " a bad gest" when it comes to buying stuffs but at least I try to inform myself and to keep up. So no it's not about "jews" or non-jews it's about impact, whatever the zone on this earth...

Keep deflecting on other issues, countries. Like that we don't talk about the reasons folks back BDS in the first place.

[Guillaume Hamon 7,046]

22 hours ago, River said:

Hey

From your post I see that you don't really understand the Israeli mind, it's very different and to understand the conflict, you need to understand the player, that it's far from bad/good..

They are not "white privileged" but they are "religious privileged" and "post-WW2 privileged", it's important thing to understand.

I'm Israeli and I lived with them and I'm interacting with them every day.

See, since we are young they teach us this:

1. we are the chosen people by god

2. Arabs are the enemy except for countries we have peace with and they hate us

3. Everyone hates us abroad so be careful and don't show that you are a jew/Israeli.

So when a group that is pro-Palestinians and explicitly "hurting" Israel and Israelis, it's immediately labeled as antisemitic and hateful, it's not to be naive, it's to see a group of people who are going against them, they don't see this as BDS vs government.. it's BDS vs. the common people.. at the end they are losing, not the government.

The government is led by people that don't care if Lana or anyone will cancel, they don't even know who are those people, what they know is that they have another card to show to everyone that "everyone once again hates us and we need to be strong".

It's the use of the holocaust trauma that we still have in Israel against us in some sense.

But as Israeli who lives abroad, I can say that yes, I need to think twice if to say that I'm from Israel, because the income can be supportive or it can be very hateful, violent (verbally mostly) or like "Israeli pig, kids killer" even though I didn't serve the military, but just being Israeli I'm labeled as one without knowing me..

Now, for the common people, the Palestinians are the bad guys and you can't blame them, you see it as an outsider, see it from the insider mind, the Palestinians hurt them too, killed and injured, so they will never care about them, they want the "problem" to be solved no matter what.. so there are no victims here really, they kill each other all the time..

You will never know how it was for a kid to live during the second Intifiada when you could be bombed when taking a bus or you will never know how is it to be outside when there's an alarm and a rocket is flying above you..

And you will never know how is it to lose a mother for one of those ("plastic home made" as some says) rockets, but I know.

So look, there are victims in both sides, all have story, we all have, this conflict took too much lives, so it's just wrong to see it as bad/good and to victims/no victims.. we are all victims of this conflict at the end, it f-cked our minds, we see the world differently...

Hey. Thanks for your anser.  

Okay so it's a conditioning pretty much. I see.

I know well there's victims on both sides, I never denied that actually, and I know it's not black and white. That's why I mainly blamed the governments making these decisions in m comments.

It's still a bit hard to believe that there's not more people breaking this "every body hate us" conditioning. Mainly when there is internet reachable by most Israelis since a while now to help them see different angles and see how these fears are manipulated.

Or maybe it's a bit too early yet and that's a change to come with the young generations then... I hope so cause at the end of the day we can't wait for a political resolutions so BDS still seem the only way to ring a bell for politicians.

[River 128,535]

1 hour ago, Guillaume Hamon said:

Hey. Thanks for your anser.  

Okay so it's a conditioning pretty much. I see.

I know well there's victims on both sides, I never denied that actually, and I know it's not black and white. That's why I mainly blamed the governments making these decisions in m comments.

It's still a bit hard to believe that there's not more people breaking this "every body hate us" conditioning. Mainly when there is internet reachable by most Israelis since a while now to help them see different angles and see how these fears are manipulated.

Or maybe it's a bit too early yet and that's a change to come with the young generations then... I hope so cause at the end of the day we can't wait for a political resolutions so BDS still seem the only way to ring a bell for politicians.

There are of course, from the left wings, like me, but the price that we need to pay is a bit too much, we are traitors, haters, they use "left" as a curse, using violent, it's not a good time to be part of the left wing in Israel and to talk about peace.

My mom was a peace activist, she stood in the border and screamed at soldiers before BDS was even born, was part of many groups of Palestinians and Israelis for peace, when she died, we got a lot of "happy messages", like she deserved it, like the people that she loved killed her, sh-t like that..

Netanyahu is doing the best to divide us, Israel is in a bad bad place, something like in Turkey let's say, it's becoming a dictatorship... can you believe that the Israeli equivalent to the FBI is interviewing left wing Israelis that comes back from abroad before they let them enter Israel? one of the questions is "why you don't support Netanyahu".. we got to this point...

So far the government said nothing about Lana, they didn't care, it cased damage only to the organizers, because they paid 700k$ to her already..

My other problem is when BDS comes to private people, I'll never understand the hate to Gal Gadot.. like calls her a terrorist and sh-t like that.. she was a soldier because it's a must, not so many people are strong enough to risk their future.. I was in jail because I didn't want to serve and my future in Israel was doomed, I couldn't find a job... and like she was a gym coach.. she never actively killed Palestinians, she was kinda irrelevant t the conflict..  she's supporting Israel but not her government, trust me..

[Guillaume Hamon 7,046]

22 hours ago, River said:

There are of course, from the left wings, like me, but the price that we need to pay is a bit too much, we are traitors, haters, they use "left" as a curse, using violent, it's not a good time to be part of the left wing in Israel and to talk about peace.

My mom was a peace activist, she stood in the border and screamed at soldiers before BDS was even born, was part of many groups of Palestinians and Israelis for peace, when she died, we got a lot of "happy messages", like she deserved it, like the people that she loved killed her, sh-t like that..

Netanyahu is doing the best to divide us, Israel is in a bad bad place, something like in Turkey let's say, it's becoming a dictatorship... can you believe that the Israeli equivalent to the FBI is interviewing left wing Israelis that comes back from abroad before they let them enter Israel? one of the questions is "why you don't support Netanyahu".. we got to this point...

So far the government said nothing about Lana, they didn't care, it cased damage only to the organizers, because they paid 700k$ to her already..

My other problem is when BDS comes to private people, I'll never understand the hate to Gal Gadot.. like calls her a terrorist and sh-t like that.. she was a soldier because it's a must, not so many people are strong enough to risk their future.. I was in jail because I didn't want to serve and my future in Israel was doomed, I couldn't find a job... and like she was a gym coach.. she never actively killed Palestinians, she was kinda irrelevant t the conflict..  she's supporting Israel but not her government, trust me..

Thank you very much for your comment, that's very informative!  

I'm sorry you and your family went through all that...   I wish Netanyahu will not be elected again and someone better will replace him... There's always hope. Even when it's long. <3