Why Ariana Grande's "Sweetener" was a disappointment after another

[dynamite 56,945]

1 minute ago, Solitaiire said:

Oh well, who's right, a user on ggd or more than 15 critics who do that for a living? oh well...

Well... neither because it's all subjective isn't it?

[Inferno 2,880]

Its her best album. As with every album she takes a step further inching away from tween pop stardom and moving forward to something more adult. Sweetener has less gay club bops therefore I assume some of her fans might find it to be less exciting. I don't agree with that.

[SJAG 1,597]

4 hours ago, Flawless said:

As I already said in another thread critics doesn't count only the songs of the album in a review. Her image is good, she is getting hits, she doesn't have any scandal around her so this helps. She's just a sweet girl releasing a sweet album and for the first time she's risking something new, trying to avoid the pop formula a little bit. It's ok to dislike but it's not fair to say she doesn't deserve something just because you didn't liked. 

I actually think she deserves all her success. She's an amazing singer in my opinion, I just didn't like her album. That's what this thread was about. What she doesn't deserve, and I think A LOT of people can agree, is the EXTREME praise she's getting lately. Ariana is one of the main female singers right now, so she lives up to certain expectations, even lyrically. I don't get the hype about "Sweetener", and I already said, it's not a 80 score worthy album. Still love her.

[SJAG 1,597]

4 hours ago, Timmers said:

If these are the criteria by which Ariana is not a pop legend, then neither is Britney Spears or Rihanna.

Well, Ariana has a short career compared to them.

1 hour ago, Solitaiire said:

Oh well, who's right, a user on ggd or more than 15 critics who do that for a living? oh well...

Also, if you have expectations for something and it doesn't happen you're bound to be dissappointed, so that's your own fault. 

There's no need to be rude. I'm sorry if my opinion bothers you that much. And just because "15 critics" says "Sweetener" is a good album, I have to agree with them? I actually don't care about what others think. That's why I tagged the thread as "opinion". That's what I think of the album. I'm not calling critics unprofessional or something, I'm just saying that I wouldn't have given "Sweetener" such an high score.

[SJAG 1,597]

16 minutes ago, Inferno said:

Its her best album. As with every album she takes a step further inching away from tween pop stardom and moving forward to something more adult. Sweetener has less gay club bops therefore I assume some of her fans might find it to be less exciting. I don't agree with that.

I respect your opinion, but the reasons that makes you think the album is "more adult" are the same that makes me think the opposite. Different points of view. I respect her attempt to do something different and "experimental", but I personally didn't like the result, but her album is successful and I'm happy for her, you can't please everyone. I don't get the "gay club bops" part, like... no, that wasn't what I expected.

[SJAG 1,597]

3 hours ago, hunty said:

..and shame on you for repeating that sexual themes are cheap.

Well, I never said that. It's not about "themes", it's about how you talk about those "themes". You can talk about sex in a subtle, sensual way, or just go with "I like how you lick the bowl". But don't expect me to call the second option "mature".

[Inferno 2,880]

2 minutes ago, SJAG said:

I respect your opinion, but the reasons that makes you think the album is "more adult" are the same that makes me think the opposite. Different points of view. I respect her attempt to do something different and "experimental", but I personally didn't like the result, but her album is successful and I'm happy for her, you can't please everyone. I don't get the "gay club bops" part, like... no, that wasn't what I expected.

Im not sure that I think its necesarily "adult", I think every albums goes further into a more adult direction. What I meant by gay club bops was that all of her other albums provided the listener with multiple boppy gay club anthems (Be Alright, Into You, Break Free, Love Me Harder, etc etc). I dont feel as though this has nearly as many. I dont think this album is particularly experimental either, I just think its mellower than her other ones. I dont think people who want her to do her little Mariah Carey voice throughout the entire album are going to love the fact that she doesnt pull histrionics on every other song with some generic ballad.

[Inferno 2,880]

Just now, SJAG said:

Well, I never said that. It's not about "themes", it's about how you talk about those "themes". You can talk about sex in a subtle, sensual way, or just go with "I like how you lick the bowl". But don't expect me to call the second option "mature".

Im sorry but "**** bicycle" is cool but somehow this album is too crudely sexual for you? lol

[SJAG 1,597]

Just now, Inferno said:

Im sorry but "**** bicycle" is cool but somehow this album is too crudely sexual for you? lol

We were talking about "Sweetener" though. I've never mentioned her past songs. I wasn't much of a "stan" or whatever when her old songs were released, so I don't know exactly how people reacted to them. I followed Ariana Grande's Sweetener era way more.

That being said, "Side to Side" isn't a lyrical masterpiece, but it's a cute song you can dance to, and that's what I said about "Sweetener" too so I don't get why you're confused. The songs are overall catchy, and I really enjoy some, it's really not that deep.

[Inferno 2,880]

Just now, SJAG said:

We were talking about "Sweetener" though. I've never mentioned her past songs. I wasn't much of a "stan" or whatever when her old songs were released, so I don't know exactly how people reacted to them. I followed Ariana Grande's Sweetener era way more.

That being said, "Side to Side" isn't a lyrical masterpiece, but it's a cute song you can dance to, and that's what I said about "Sweetener" too so I don't get why you're confused. The songs are overall catchy, and I really enjoy some, it's really not that deep.

No one is saying its deep? You invited a discussion and we're having one. So engage then.

 

[SJAG 1,597]

3 minutes ago, Inferno said:

No one is saying its deep? You invited a discussion and we're having one. So engage then.

I explained. I don't like STS for its lyrics but for its sound, and I feel the same way for a couple of song from "Sweetener". Just that.

I just realised I made a long thread with a motivated opinion while I could have just wrote "I find Sweetener underwhelming".

[JohnnyVersace 8,982]

But why does every album these days have to have some massive political appeal and comment on the state of the world or have any sort of philanthropic message behind it tho

Next

[NONONONO 709]

I understand your points, but as a pop album, I really love Sweetener - it's my favourite album of hers.

[SJAG 1,597]

16 minutes ago, JohnnyVersace said:

But why does every album these days have to have some massive political appeal and comment on the state of the world or have any sort of philanthropic message behind it tho

Next

You didn't get the point of the thread.

By the way, I'm not saying I wanted "Sweetener" to have a "massive political appeal" or to "comment on the state of the world", but THAT would have been an actual upgrade.

[JohnnyVersace 8,982]

25 minutes ago, SJAG said:

You didn't get the point of the thread.

By the way, I'm not saying I wanted "Sweetener" to have a "massive political appeal" or to "comment on the state of the world", but THAT would have been an actual upgrade.

But your whole post talks about how she's not mature enough, doesn't acknowledge the terrorist attack in the right way, isn't feminist enough, and relies on sex to write songs. But what's wrong with that? Several Gaga songs can be boiled down to vapid, sex-focused lyrics, but it's about the imagery and performances that drive a point home. Ariana's done the same thing (obviously w different themes). 

I think that the critique we give pop music these days, and the need for it to be "deep" or overly meaningful stunts the artistic growth. Sweetener, imo, is largely about the sounds, the production, the vocals, the vibes. 

And yet, this is the same forum that constantly condemns the current state of pop, and so so desperately pleads for the days of Rihanna, Katy, Britney, pop Nicki, Kesha, etc. But, let's not forget that the 2008-2014 period of pop was LARGELY categorized by "let's live our life tonight before we get old and party and drink and dance" songs. So, were those failures because they relied on party messages, and lacked a deep message?

We have finally received an album that isn't trying to shove some bullshit, fabricated, semi-aware message down our throats, and look at how it's getting dragged here. Tons of threads about how awful, or boring, or meaningless, or "wrong" this album is. It's POP ****ING MUSIC. She doesn't have to be an expert on feminism, or be the anti-terrorist political activist of 2018. She's inspired by ****, and romance, and sex, and "vibing," and imo bashing that is a terrible ciritism of an album.