Israel’s ambassador wants to meet Lorde

[ctherainbow 3,162]

6 hours ago, Born To Slay said:

He thinks she won't show and that if she ducks him, it'll make her side look like they're afraid to debate.

So the extremists on one side will be happy because to them, she looks foolish, and the extremists on the other side will be happy because she didn't meet with him, and meanwhile the rest of us who actually care about the human beings suffering in this conflict will be pissed at the effort being wasted on this petty dispute.  Great.    

[Born To Slay 10,996]

29 minutes ago, ctherainbow said:

So the extremists on one side will be happy because to them, she looks foolish, and the extremists on the other side will be happy because she didn't meet with him, and meanwhile the rest of us who actually care about the human beings suffering in this conflict will be pissed at the effort being wasted on this petty dispute.  Great.    

Well, that may be the result. I think he's trying to get moderates think Lorde's side is stupid. If she doesn't show up, he hopes that some moderates will think "it's just an ignorant celebrity grandstanding and not able to back it up". He hopes that some moderates thinking this will hurt his opponents in the court of public opinion. 

I personally think she should meet him, that would do wonders for both her PR and the PR of the opposition to Israels crimes. 

[ctherainbow 3,162]

1 hour ago, Born To Slay said:

Well, that may be the result. I think he's trying to get moderates think Lorde's side is stupid. If she doesn't show up, he hopes that some moderates will think "it's just an ignorant celebrity grandstanding and not able to back it up". He hopes that some moderates thinking this will hurt his opponents in the court of public opinion. 

I personally think she should meet him, that would do wonders for both her PR and the PR of the opposition to Israels crimes. 

I mean, her way of handling this situation was kind of ignorant, but I can't see any moderates being swayed by an ambassador lowkey picking a fight with a celebrity.    

This is kind of a tangent, and not at all in reply to your post, but it blows my mind that there are people out there who think that either Israel or Palestine is a purely innocent victim here.  A boycott, or any other measure that takes one side and shuts down progress in relations between the citizens of both groups, is just going to make things worse.    

[Florian 19,952]

7 hours ago, babs said:

I mean, she IS getting some backlash nonetheless but I don't think it's that big that her career is going down the drain or even affect her that much, a lot of people don't really care a lot about the whole israeli/palestinian conflict, I'm gonna bite the bullet and admit that 2 years ago I didn't have a clue what the whole thing was even about. It's the same for a lot of people

If you're from the egocentric US it's not shocking

Isreali/Palestinian issue has been talked regularly on news in France and I assume the rest of Europe.

[Werk 13,166]

Can someone explain to me everything that's going on 

[Born To Slay 10,996]

12 minutes ago, ctherainbow said:

I mean, her way of handling this situation was kind of ignorant, but I can't see any moderates being swayed by an ambassador lowkey picking a fight with a celebrity.    

This is kind of a tangent, and not at all in reply to your post, but it blows my mind that there are people out there who think that either Israel or Palestine is a purely innocent victim here.  A boycott, or any other measure that takes one side and shuts down progress in relations between the citizens of both groups, is just going to make things worse.    

There are dumb people that could actually be swayed by that. Look who America elected last year...

[babs 5,093]

5 hours ago, Florian said:

If you're from the egocentric US it's not shocking

Isreali/Palestinian issue has been talked regularly on news in France and I assume the rest of Europe.

I'm venezuelan, buddy.

[ctherainbow 3,162]

6 hours ago, Born To Slay said:

There are dumb people that could actually be swayed by that. Look who America elected last year...

I'll give you that.    

[FABian 852]

Who cares. 

If you guys want to be political and act like y'all care for any political issues, why don't we talk about Yemen ?

 

[LordEnigma 11,313]

No matter what - she’s going to get backlash. Sometimes you just have to do what you think is best and stand by it.

Not every single person on this planet is going to be happy - why has no one learned this?

[Naor Daniel 937]

9 hours ago, Werk said:

Can someone explain to me everything that's going on 

1. Lorde schedules performances in Tel Aviv, Israel and St. Petersburg and Moscow, Russia 

2. Lorde proudly tweets about these three problematic locations on Twitter, naively, I guess due to ignorance

3. Crazy social justice warriors are losing their mind... No, not for performing in a violator of human rights Russia, the one who killed hundreds of thousands in Syria, Ukraine, Georgia and Russian LGBTQ, but Israel. The antisemites cannot accept anything culturally or economically related to the Jews.

4. Lorde is bombarded with comments against her scheduled performance in Israel, the BDS joins in.

5. Two New Zealand women who are NOT native to the land (one Jew, one Palestinian) urged white Lorde to not perform in a country that "steals land" (it's okay only if you're white) and violates Palestinian rights, urge her to boycott the country

6. Lorde gives up to the antisemitism and cancels the Tel Aviv show, while Russian dates stay in tact. 

7. Lorde loses all of her Israeli fans (including Jews, Atheists and Arabs) and is heavily criticized for cancelling a show in the only democracy in the Middle East in an excuse of caring for "human rights" while still performing in a country like Russia

8. Lorde deserves all the criticism she's getting. 

 

[derpmonster 22,412]

1 hour ago, Naor Daniel said:

Crazy social justice warriors are losing their mind... No, not for performing in a violator of human rights Russia, the one who killed hundreds of thousands in Syria, Ukraine, Georgia and Russian LGBTQ, but Israel. The antisemites cannot accept anything culturally or economically related to the Jews.

 

 

 

A lot of mixing and matching here. You're saying the "crazy social justice warriors" are the anti-semites? I'm not sure how that works because antisemitism is one of the things social justice is trying to get rid of. 

1 hour ago, Naor Daniel said:

a country that "steals land" (it's okay only if you're white)

It's not okay in either case. I absolutely don't support colonialism or illegal occupation from white or any people (I am not white and am from a country that was once colonized why white people).

1 hour ago, Naor Daniel said:

Lorde gives up to the antisemitism

See, that's the thing--the lack of support for Israel comes from people who are fighting for social justice being against "stealing land" no matter who does it. It doesn't come from antisemitism. Antisemitism is something that's also socially unjust and is being fought against.

Of course, if you only used "crazy social justice warriors" as a blanket term to mean crazy people who don't have nuance, then say that but don't blame people on your side in the struggle.

I don't want to project on you but I think these things often come from a conflation of the American/Western political spectrum with that of other places. Because they're not necessarily based on exact values. You don't have to be left, center, or right. You can oppose both antisemitism and colonization. And I think that's a pretty "social justice" thing to do. For example, I don't agree with Palestine's values on a lot of things and Israel's are probably more in line with my beliefs but that doesn't mean I have to stand by everything Israel does.

 

As for performing in Russia, I agree with you. That is something she should've been aware of if she was canceling shows. You can't selectively do things and should be careful. Besides, she picked a side. You're right about getting the criticism she deserves but I don't think your whole thing about social justice warriors and antisemitism is true.

[Naor Daniel 937]

18 minutes ago, derpmonster said:

A lot of mixing and matching here. You're saying the "crazy social justice warriors" are the anti-semites? I'm not sure how that works because antisemitism is one of the things social justice is trying to get rid of. 

It's not okay in either case. I absolutely don't support colonialism or illegal occupation from white or any people (I am not white and am from a country that was once colonized why white people).

See, that's the thing--the lack of support for Israel comes from people who are fighting for social justice being against "stealing land" no matter who does it. It doesn't come from antisemitism. Antisemitism is something that's also socially unjust and is being fought against.

Of course, if you only used "crazy social justice warriors" as a blanket term to mean crazy people who don't have nuance, then say that but don't blame people on your side in the struggle.

I don't want to project on you but I think these things often come from a conflation of the American/Western political spectrum with that of other places. Because they're not necessarily based on exact values. You don't have to be left, center, or right. You can oppose both antisemitism and colonization. And I think that's a pretty "social justice" thing to do. For example, I don't agree with Palestine's values on a lot of things and Israel's are probably more in line with my beliefs but that doesn't mean I have to stand by everything Israel does.

 

As for performing in Russia, I agree with you. That is something she should've been aware of if she was canceling shows. You can't selectively do things and should be careful. Besides, she picked a side. You're right about getting the criticism she deserves but I don't think your whole thing about social justice warriors and antisemitism is true.

The SJW movements are antisemitic. You might think, "but why?", well, while focusing on direct attacks on American Jews primary is nice and cute, denying the rights of the Jews for self determination in their own country and their right for defense is antisemitic in its core. Plus, the exaggerated rhetoric they use against Israel is considered okay since it's disguised as "political criticism".

You're also saying "both are not ok", but in fact, only one is not okay, the White colonialism (which Lorde is part of). Jews have always had historical, national and religious connection to the land of Israel (which was renamed to Palestine by the Romans 2,000 years ago), and the world is responsible for the annihilation of 6,000,000 of us, and the complete extinction of Jewish communities all across Europe and the Arab world. It only makes sense for us to create our own country and defend our rights and lives.

The situation in the Palestinian Territories is complex, but it's not just "Israel being mean". Israel always agreed to peace - accepted the two states UN resolution, official peace with Egypt and Jordan, and proposed Palestinian statehood multiple times (which were refused by the Palestinian side).

So boycotting a country that isn't inherently BAD is in fact antisemitic. The US has bases all around the world, invaded Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria in the last 2 decades. Would Lorde think of boycotting the US market? What about Russia? 

To sum up. As an Israeli Jew I was attacked and blamed for the slightest bad things that happen in my country, with very harsh words. Those bad things were used as an excuse to de-legitimatize the right of Israel to exist. Me and my people are demonized daily by SJWs. I didn't know they were so antisemitic until Trump's Jerusalem announcement. They went NUTS! 

   

[Werk 13,166]

10 hours ago, Naor Daniel said:

1. Lorde schedules performances in Tel Aviv, Israel and St. Petersburg and Moscow, Russia 

2. Lorde proudly tweets about these three problematic locations on Twitter, naively, I guess due to ignorance

3. Crazy social justice warriors are losing their mind... No, not for performing in a violator of human rights Russia, the one who killed hundreds of thousands in Syria, Ukraine, Georgia and Russian LGBTQ, but Israel. The antisemites cannot accept anything culturally or economically related to the Jews.

4. Lorde is bombarded with comments against her scheduled performance in Israel, the BDS joins in.

5. Two New Zealand women who are NOT native to the land (one Jew, one Palestinian) urged white Lorde to not perform in a country that "steals land" (it's okay only if you're white) and violates Palestinian rights, urge her to boycott the country

6. Lorde gives up to the antisemitism and cancels the Tel Aviv show, while Russian dates stay in tact. 

7. Lorde loses all of her Israeli fans (including Jews, Atheists and Arabs) and is heavily criticized for cancelling a show in the only democracy in the Middle East in an excuse of caring for "human rights" while still performing in a country like Russia

8. Lorde deserves all the criticism she's getting. 

 

Tysm but I'm really confused   So she originally was gonna perform in Israel but then receives back flash? If I'm right on that then I'm still confused on the back flash  

[ALGAYDO 32,128]

7 minutes ago, Werk said:

Tysm but I'm really confused   So she originally was gonna perform in Israel but then receives back flash? If I'm right on that then I'm still confused on the back flash  

She’s getting backlash for canceling the Israel date but not the Russian date, and delusional users on here are basically calling her a Nazi for it