The Appeal of Taylor swift?

[heda97 2,399]

47 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Keep on saying that, now more than ever. She's due a long, overdue wake up call about how her music is actually viewed by the public. She can't keep on being successful with so little talent. She's got to start improving if she wants to stick around. Every other popstar of her age has to or they're over. I don't want her basic songs to still be successful when she's into her 30's while females who make actual good pop music start falling off the wagon at this age.

I have listened to all her albums and I can confirm that what they say is pretty accurate. Songs about exes are a lot more than 1 or 2 per album and you know it. It's songs about other topics that are rare, not the other way around.

Her lyrics have always been immature and cringey to me. I don't get why the critics fawn over them when they put down much better written material by others. You think Gorgeous is bad, well, it's that level that I've been viewing almost her entire discography right from the beginning. Her debut was her best work but after that, its been few and far between. And her attitude is such a facade, I don't know how people fall for it. She's clearly a mean girl behind the scenes. She's just admitted it with LWYMMD and still her fans defend her.

And people are obsessed because she's always in our faces and we're told that she's amazing and we don't agree. You'd respond the same way if someone you disliked was treated the same way. Some people like to get their hate out, there's nothing wrong with that. It's not healthy to keep things bottled inside.

Her good songwriting is very rare, it's average at best. Her videos are also the brains of highly professional directors, it's doubtful that she's behind all these concepts. And as for putting on a show...I researched some live performances. She's a very boring performer who can't dance, has a basic voice and does cheesy speeches.

Superior, bitchy, diva-like. Thinks she's better than everyone. Always plays the victim even when she's clearly not. Has had more men than she's had hot dinners yet acts so innocent. Lies about her intentions for success and a good image.

There's not many of those songs, though. But bear in mind, I'm harsh on anyone who relies on an overabundance of songs about relationships. It's the most easiest topic in the world to write songs about, even if you've never dated. Everyone knows the script and can do it. It's writing songs about other things in life that's hard, which is why she doesn't do that often. I've always been critical of Adele for making entire albums about relationships, calling it one-note and boring.

I've never denied that her writing all her own music and playing multiple instruments are commendable. But that's all I commend her for. Writing your own music is only truly commendable when it's actually good anyway. And when were Grammys the true symbol of talent? Plenty of untalented people have won them and plenty of talented people have never even been nominated. The only reason I put stock in the achievement in Gaga's and Lana's case is because a lot of other people do and use it for bragging rights, like you are currently doing. So, I've got to pretend to care momentarily to even out the field. But in the real world, no, Grammys are meaningless.

Yeah, she changed the lyric because she regretted how close-minded and homophobic it sounded and didn't want the backlash. Let's not lie to ourselves here. The girl's no angel, we need to stop pretending she is.

Personally, I think there is something wrong with that. Not that I haven't liked a basic song from a basic artist or two but the difference is, I file it away under "guilty pleasure," as in, it's not worth defending or majorly supporting. When people give top notch support to basic songs, it tells the industry to keep signing basic artists and keep telling them to make basic songs. That's why the charts are in the state they are because the industry chase the money and the people just listen to what the industry spoon feeds them. You've got to look outside the big names if you want quality. If the industry isn't giving them major promotion, it's usually a sign that the music's good but the artist is unfortunately unmarketable. Seek them out and give them the support they need to start telling the industry where their priorities should be.

I don't think it's making her appear likeable in the least, though. It's backfiring massively. More people than ever are starting to say they've completely gone off her and her new stuff is garbage. That will affect her sales. So, no, I don't think she can automatically keep on winning no matter how she presents herself. She needs to realise that she's vulnerable like everyone else and she can make an image and musical misstep that doesn't connect.

This was beautifully written. And I agree with every single point you made. 

[Benji 20,113]

She makes mostly good and catchy music.  I don't know why people get so pressed over her or people liking her... I mean we're on a pop forum.

[MsSwan 1,379]

It’s fine if you don’t like her but try not to be delusional about the fact that she’s going anywhere.

 

[Raikov 183]

> literally any time an artist that's not Gaga is on top

> "i don't understand the appeal?!?"

Don't you all get bored trying to find things to hate about other people? It was Katy, then Taylor, then Drake, Sheeran, and back to Taylor again. The question is always disingenuous too, as the OP never has any intention of trying to understand the appeal of the artist; they're just looking for approval and validation. I cannot take a topic seriously when someone says "Taylor has written good songs" and OP replies by quoting her most recent single that's generally disliked by fans. This is the same nonsense rock fans do to pop music in general. "Rah rah ah ah ah roma roma ma, gaga oo la la, wow, what happened to songwriters like FREDDIE MERCURY?" It's disingenuous nonsense when they do it and it's disingenuous nonsense here.

What's her appeal? Well it seems 90% of people on this forum only know her from the 1989 era, since those are the only lyrics they'll ever quote. Her Red and before era had this to them: she was really relatable. A dorky girl on her guitar, putting the pain you felt into words. Her music was well produced, her voice was bright and clear, and she wrote from an honest place (too honest when you look at stuff like Mean). Don't underestimate the power of relatability - Pink isn't a sonic experimenter but her new album broke records this year, and a lot of people say her appeal is in how down-to- earth, no BS she is. A lot of people feel Taylor speaks for them.

Also in an era when the trend is to rely on a vamp and phone in a melody, Taylor still sticks to an older style of songwriting where you, you know, change chord progressions between song sections. And she's great at melodies and hooks, I don't care what anyone says. People don't seem to care about writing a good melody anymore, with focus being on lyrics or production, but Taylor does.

It's 100%  fair to say you don't understand an artist's appeal. That's fine. I really don't "get" Drake. But when questioning the appeal comes from a place of bitterness and jealousy, then you're not actually  seeking to learn anything but to have your viewpoint reinforced. Like the lyrics ... Do you really think quoting an embarrassing line or verse is going to "disprove" anything? There is so much that goes into lyricism: is there a central metaphor, how appropriate is it, is the metaphor well developed, is there a creative use of poetic devices, do the lyrics express a lot in a little space, are they singable. There's a very real discussion you can have on pop singers' lyrics and the strengths and weaknesses and recurring themes, but people would rather play with soundbytes. If you don't want to put all this effort in, fine, but please don't act like a verse from Gorgeous is "self explanatory."

Finally ... I love Lana, but some of the lyrics you picked were not that good? "Light of my life, fire of my loins, gimme them gold coins" is mostly a Nabokov quotation, and it's not being used in an especially original way either. "He used to call me DN - that stood for deadly nightshade" is one of the most ridiculed lyrics in the fanbase because it's so banal and obvious. DN doesn't even sound like a name, and "deadly nightshade" is cliche and boring. Lana has some great lyrics, but she has a ton of stinkers and an over-reliance on past imagery and lazy writing ("there's nothing for us to talk about, like the future and those things", "it's like feeling no fear when you're standing in the face of danger cuz you just want it so much"). I love her to pieces but her lyrics are very variable quality.

[Whispering 18,865]

Taylor knows how to paint a picture with her words, one that creates a story that many can understand and relate to. She knows how to write a hook and a catchy song. She knows how to package all of this in a cohesive unit and she's a business woman who knows how to market herself and her music. 

[Sister 9,907]

She writes, acts and sings songs about life from the point of view of a fifteen year old girl and it seems like most music fans want to feel like they are forever fifteen.

[TEETHTEETH 1,620]

On 10/23/2017 at 9:24 AM, heda97 said:

And lets not forget this lyric by ms.Swift:

“So go and tell your friends that I’m obsessive and crazy / That’s fine I’ll tell mine that you’re gay!”

 

[Yuuri 21,636]

She gives me those petty, shady bops that I love.

[lost in limbo 6,035]

I like her discography, I dislike her as a person. She has the pop factor we're lacking this day and I don't really care who she's dating, who she's feuding with and what she's posting on social media about, as long as she keeps serving good albums idc.

[lost in limbo 6,035]

8 minutes ago, Yuuri said:

She gives me those petty, shady bops that I love.

Ikr, songs like Bad Blood and LWYMMD are such shady bops that I'll listen whenever I feud with someone  

[Ernie Swift 160]

Okay here is the point of view as someone who has been a Swiftie since 2008. I have been a fan of Taylor’s since I was very young. My biggest fear was that I would grow out of her music and that I would stop liking her at some point. But the reason I have stuck around for so many years is because Taylor was never afraid to appear vulnerable in her music, and she was always honest about what she was going through and how she FELT in her music, whether it be falling in love, being angry at a former lover, crying on the bathroom floor, reminiscing about simpler times, coming of age, her relationship with mother, her fans, mocking the media, etc. She may not talk about her private life publicly but I love how she allowed herself to tell her side of the story in her music. And time and time again it is relatable and you are most of the time able to apply it to your own life experiences. Taylor’s music has gotten me through some of the toughest times in my life, and even when I felt alone, it made me feel so much better knowing that I could look up to someone who has been through similar experiences. Taylor is not perfect and I know that, and I don’t delude myself into thinking she is, but no matter what, she has stayed true to herself as a person, and that is another reason I stuck around, even when people would write obnoxious things about her, from “Taylor Swift dates too much”, to “Taylor Swift is a Trump supporting snake”. An album that is very underrated is Red, and I feel like people only know about it because of the huge radio singles that were on that album, but I feel like if they listened deeper to that album, their opinions would change about her music.

Edit: Lol one more thing I forgot to add. Another part of Taylor’s appeal is her songwriting. It is always very detailed and it tells a story and paints a picture. Her lyrics are simple and straight to the point which I guess is why some people see her lyrics as “generic”. But simplicity isn’t always a bad thing.

 

(P.S. back in 2007, Taylor apologized for the lyric that can be seen as homophobic in Picture to Burn, and she changed the lyric. And we have to remember she was only 15 when she wrote that song and her immaturity back then really kind of showed on that song  )