GypsyBabe 22,836 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 1 hour ago, DeanWinchester said: Spike also built friendships and dynamics with other scoobies while Angel was mostly just there. He only interacted mostly with Willow outside of Buffy, and even then it wasn't such an obvious dynamic and about consistency of season 7 (i really wish i have more time to expound on this because what ill be typing is a severe understatement), i'm talking about how well they used recurring themes that isn't just applicable to one episode, not even just to certain subplots but to the entire arc as a whole, @GypsyBabeĀ kinda mentioned some of it--you have great points on certain mythological inconsistencies, let me try to get on that later perhaps. But on the direction of the story: This is as "good or evil, which side are you on?" as you could get. Everybody and I mean everybody was tested. Anya was back to her vengeance game and was a full-on demon but in a time when being good was considered bad (as warned by Halfrek), she continued to play the good team despite suffering a massive setback and painful blow from her cursed and unfulfilled wedding. Buffy was tested because of her relationship with Spike, which the other scoobies questioned and called out. Giles was tested as a watcher who is now no longer able to rein in Buffy. Faith's rocky road to redemption is sent to trial. Andrew and Jonathan's loyalties were tested with the aftermath of Warren's actions. Jonathan died being good, Andrew lived being but but later on redeemed himself. Robin's introduction wasn't just so they could add another character, his backstory made actual sense and tied up well with how the First manipulated everybody around Buffy. Spike regaining his soul and actually playing good team whether or not Buffy reciprocated his feelings was an entire test Conversations with Dead People is one of the best episodes for me because not only does it use a storytelling structure that is unique to many other formulaic episodes, it was somewhat meta for focusing on different aspects of the show (Buffy=psychoanalyses, Dawn=supernatural/horror themes, Willow=drama/love, Spike=good vs evil), it also highlighted just how dangerous the First was, on how it could attack on several fronts and really highlighted the danger it posed. The reveal of all the built up of "From beneath you it devours" was so satisfying and threatening That episode really set up the entire season to be really epic in scale for me, and was a worthy step-up from all previous Big Bads. It's just so awesome.Ā Yes, although it is my least favorite season, it is the most cohesive by far. There were no true "stand alone" episodes that took away from the plot, and Conversations With Dead People is one of my favorite episodes of the series actually. I also think season 7, though somewhat boring, was permeated with strokes of brilliance in the character development of the schoobies, Spike in particular. There are so many iconic and memorable scenes from that season visually. Maybe even more so than the previous seasons.Ā Their struggle as characters in the show, whether they fight on the side of good or evil, mirrors their growth as people and ultimately their morality and the person that they choose to be. There is both light and dark within all of us, and we must choose to accept all or none of it. It is the point in the show where we truly embrace the wholeness of humanity. There is simply not just good or evil. They ditched the whole "Demon bad people good" theme altogether, which they had toyed with in previous seasons.Ā It is the season where Buffy learns to be human, something she has always wanted to be.Ā My issue with that season is the potentials. I didn't really enjoy them as a thematic tool, to basically show us as a viewership where we started off and how far our characters have come. It didn't hold any true weight for me. The actors that they cast weren't really that great either. I just thought that it cheapened the storyline of what could have been a season of true growth and discovery. āÆĶ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bye 3,947 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Rewatching BtVS and Angel with my boyfriend (his first time). We've recently finished all the Buffy seasons and are now on Season 5 of Angel. Love love love both shows and I don't wanna pick a favourite (Buffy is more entertaining, but Angel is more mature as a series and I love Cordelia's character progression). I hate Xander. HATE HIM. If BtVS was just being released in 2017 Xander would be called a misogynistic, jealous asshole. He can rot and die, and his episodes (The Zeppo and the stupid hyena episode) are the worst episodes of the series. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanWinchester 41,390 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 1 hour ago, GypsyBabe said: My issue with that season is the potentials. I didn't really enjoy them as a thematic tool, to basically show us as a viewership where we started off and how far our characters have come. It didn't hold any true weight for me. The actors that they cast weren't really that great either. I just thought that it cheapened the storyline of what could have been a season of true growth and discovery. A respectable view. I would beg to differ here though only because i find the idea of multiple slayers a real stroke of genius on the good side of major powers and makes so much more sense than just one slayer per generation when we know demonic/supernatural threat happens worldwide and one slayer is easily overwhelmed. as for the turok han it is somewhat unfortunate that their power levels dropped after buffy killed the one turok but a case could be argued that during their assault on the caverns, having a group of slayers >>>> one on one fight. It doesnt matter how many turok han were present, they cannot all engage with the slayers at the same time and we do see newly activated slayers dying. Although yes, joss could have written something like a spell to heighten their speed or something to make it more believable Ā Flyin' like a 1000 Doves Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan 20,739 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Spoiler Buffy's mom dying is easily the saddest moment in TV history to me. I cry every time. The complete silence during the whole scene is gut wrenching.Ā Ā Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanWinchester 41,390 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Biotic said: We've recently finished all the Buffy seasons and are now on Season 5 of Angel. The finale felt so incomplete yet cathartic at the sameĀ time. I wonder how the show would have gone if it wasnt canceled. Flyin' like a 1000 Doves Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bye 3,947 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 43 minutes ago, DeanWinchester said: The finale felt so incomplete yet cathartic at the sameĀ time. I wonder how the show would have gone if it wasnt canceled. I doubt they'd have been able to handle the budget with all those monsters. It kinda felt like a series finale anyway, with Cordelia's, Fred's, and Wesley's story finishing up. Angel and Spike will always keep on fighting and redeeming themselves. Not the best ending but given that it was meant to be renewed, it's a ****ing great ending. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanWinchester 41,390 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, Biotic said: I doubt they'd have been able to handle the budget with all those monsters. It kinda felt like a series finale anyway, with Cordelia's, Fred's, and Wesley's story finishing up. Angel and Spike will always keep on fighting and redeeming themselves. Not the best ending but given that it was meant to be renewed, it's a ****ing great ending. It is a great ending i just felt like it kept us hanging. I know the point is that the fight never ends but i would have loved to seen the team in action more Flyin' like a 1000 Doves Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bye 3,947 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 20 minutes ago, DeanWinchester said: It is a great ending i just felt like it kept us hanging. I know the point is that the fight never ends but i would have loved to seen the team in action more Especially Illyria kicking giant demon ass Ā Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFameMoister 909 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Spike x Buffy Willow x Tara Anya x Xander Ā Done Buy The Fame Moister on iTunes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanWinchester 41,390 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Biotic said: Especially Illyria kicking giant demon ass Ā Do you think we can take down Illyria, Sammy? Do you think you could out-angst Angel and Faith while I outsnark Buffy and Spike? Ā Flyin' like a 1000 Doves Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doot 2 Posted August 10, 2017 Author Share Posted August 10, 2017 4 hours ago, Dominic Marc said: Everything.Ā EVERYTHING.Ā I was obsessed when i was younger. Still am. I got the iconic "The hardest thing in this world is to live in it" tattooed down my ribs and I met a lot of the cast at comic con over the years because im such a square. Honestly I learnt all my morals and life lessons through that showĀ Ā 4 hours ago, GypsyBabe said: Yes, although it is my least favorite season, it is the most cohesive by far. There were no true "stand alone" episodes that took away from the plot, and Conversations With Dead People is one of my favorite episodes of the series actually. I also think season 7, though somewhat boring, was permeated with strokes of brilliance in the character development of the schoobies, Spike in particular. There are so many iconic and memorable scenes from that season visually. Maybe even more so than the previous seasons.Ā Their struggle as characters in the show, whether they fight on the side of good or evil, mirrors their growth as people and ultimately their morality and the person that they choose to be. There is both light and dark within all of us, and we must choose to accept all or none of it. It is the point in the show where we truly embrace the wholeness of humanity. There is simply not just good or evil. They ditched the whole "Demon bad people good" theme altogether, which they had toyed with in previous seasons.Ā It is the season where Buffy learns to be human, something she has always wanted to be.Ā My issue with that season is the potentials. I didn't really enjoy them as a thematic tool, to basically show us as a viewership where we started off and how far our characters have come. It didn't hold any true weight for me. The actors that they cast weren't really that great either. I just thought that it cheapened the storyline of what could have been a season of true growth and discovery. Ā 4 hours ago, Biotic said: Rewatching BtVS and Angel with my boyfriend (his first time). We've recently finished all the Buffy seasons and are now on Season 5 of Angel. Love love love both shows and I don't wanna pick a favourite (Buffy is more entertaining, but Angel is more mature as a series and I love Cordelia's character progression). I hate Xander. HATE HIM. If BtVS was just being released in 2017 Xander would be called a misogynistic, jealous asshole. He can rot and die, and his episodes (The Zeppo and the stupid hyena episode) are the worst episodes of the series. I feel the exact same. Buffy was definitely more entertaining, and much easier to digest, whereas Angel did have the upper hand in regards to being a darker and more mature show. Ā And agree 100% on Xander. He was the worst character for me, such a douche bag. However, I thought The Pack was an exceptional episode. It really brought out the emotion for me, especially the bullying aspect. I felt terrible for Willow with the things he said to her. I was able to relate to my own High School experience. 3 hours ago, DeanWinchester said: A respectable view. I would beg to differ here though only because i find the idea of multiple slayers a real stroke of genius on the good side of major powers and makes so much more sense than just one slayer per generation when we know demonic/supernatural threat happens worldwide and one slayer is easily overwhelmed. as for the turok han it is somewhat unfortunate that their power levels dropped after buffy killed the one turok but a case could be argued that during their assault on the caverns, having a group of slayers >>>> one on one fight. It doesnt matter how many turok han were present, they cannot all engage with the slayers at the same time and we do see newly activated slayers dying. Although yes, joss could have written something like a spell to heighten their speed or something to make it more believable Ā I don't want to try and justify something that the writer explicitly stated was lazy story writing and a huge plot hole. I really feel like Joss just had too many ideas and not enough time to properly execute them. While the amulet was explained on Angel, for all those who watched Buffy and didn't watch Angel, it just felt shoe-horned in.Ā 3 hours ago, Logan said: Ā Hide contents Buffy's mom dying is easily the saddest moment in TV history to me. I cry every time. The complete silence during the whole scene is gut wrenching.Ā Ā Same. That is the one episode that should have been won some sort of award. 3 hours ago, DeanWinchester said: The finale felt so incomplete yet cathartic at the sameĀ time. I wonder how the show would have gone if it wasnt canceled. It would have had half the season being in post-apocalyptic LA, similar to the comics that followed afterwards, just obviously somewhat scaled down. Think similar to when they went to Pylea at the end of Season 2. Had they not been cancelled, Joss said he never would have killed Wesley, and Season 6 would have had a recurring storyline about trying to split Fred and Illyria. There was also talks in the writing room about bringing Oz onto the show to be a pal to Nina. This is fact, theres multiple interviews with Joss where he says this. I can find it if yall dont believe me lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bye 3,947 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 51 minutes ago, Doot said: Ā I feel the exact same. Buffy was definitely more entertaining, and much easier to digest, whereas Angel did have the upper hand in regards to being a darker and more mature show. Ā And agree 100% on Xander. He was the worst character for me, such a douche bag. However, I thought The Pack was an exceptional episode. It really brought out the emotion for me, especially the bullying aspect. I felt terrible for Willow with the things he said to her. I was able to relate to my own High School experience. Oh that's fair enough, if anything Buffy was always so relatable! Glad we agree on Xander Ā 1 hour ago, DeanWinchester said: Do you think we can take down Illyria, Sammy? Do you think you could out-angst Angel and Faith while I outsnark Buffy and Spike? Ā We were able to defeat the devil himself and god's sister. We can handle Illyria. I don't think anyone can be a match for Buffy's snark though. She's the queen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doot 2 Posted August 10, 2017 Author Share Posted August 10, 2017 11 minutes ago, Biotic said: Oh that's fair enough, if anything Buffy was always so relatable! Glad we agree on Xander Ā We were able to defeat the devil himself and god's sister. We can handle Illyria. I don't think anyone can be a match for Buffy's snark though. She's the queen. I think we can agree that the damage Sam and Dean take, anyone else would be dead lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanWinchester 41,390 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 10 minutes ago, Biotic said: I don't think anyone can be a match for Buffy's snark though. She's the queen. well i won't mind losing to buffy 1 hour ago, Doot said: I don't want to try and justify something that the writer explicitly stated was lazy story writing and a huge plot hole. i wasn't trying to erase any mistakes in the narrative, im just trying to make sense of it for my own personal understanding of the story 1 hour ago, Doot said: This is fact, theres multiple interviews with Joss where he says this. I can find it if yall dont believe me lol i believe you, i'm an admin on the Buffy wiki, so I know how the comics go. I just don't use them. And of course some events/powers/characters are easily translated to comics but may be different in the live action TV series Flyin' like a 1000 Doves Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doot 2 Posted August 10, 2017 Author Share Posted August 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, DeanWinchester said: i believe you, i'm an admin on the Buffy wiki, so I know how the comics go. I just don't use them. And of course some events/powers/characters are easily translated to comics but may be different in the live action TV series Why are we not best friends? Ā Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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