California Dem House Speaker blocks single-payer healthcare bill

[Chic 20,830]

1 minute ago, Whispering said:

They wouldn't if the country cared for their poor instead of giving huge tax breaks to the top one and two per cent. 

The AHCA needed improvement, not to be gutted. 

Whatever can be done? On the backs of the elderly, poor and children. Just so it pays off in the long term. 

That's what will happen, and it will happen to the most vulnerable and compromised in our country. 

I said nothing about tax breaks. I don't agree with specific tax breaks for larger companies, I agree in across the board deregulation that allows smaller business to thrive instead of destroying them and making the big businesses move away. It's like killing cancer by stabbing the person in the heart.

The AHCA needed to be gutted because it's unsustainable and no fix would make it sustainable.

What socialized healthcare will do is save the comparatively few elderly, poor and children while resulting in exponentially more elderly, poor and children to die years down the road. Unsustainable.

There will never be a fix that saves everyone in the world forever and ever, but desperately clawing to save a few million today in a way that will result in the deaths of many more millions tomorrow is not a solution. I'd rather a few people hurt today for the sustainable benefit of future generations, even plenty of our own if done correctly. The death of people is sadly inevitable but the trick is to lessen it as a whole for the longest sustainable amount of time. And single payer healthcare is not going to do that.

[rpggal 332]

1 hour ago, Chic said:

1. Deregulate businesses

2. Remove government from healthcare

3. Watch insurance companies compete for customers

4. Enjoy lower prices

No offense, but have you actually taken any economics classes? Not all goods follow the same simplistic laws, including the price-demand and supply-price curves. Healthcare is an inelastic good, meaning that people will pay whatever you charge them in order to stay alive. There is a much higher profit margin in treating a few people at a very high price than treating many people at a low price, and because the good is inelastic anyone that can afford that high price will pay it. Because there is such an unequal distribution of wealth in this country, there is a lot of money to be made at the top and middle percentiles and not nearly so much in the bottom half, so profits will be maximized by setting prices in such a way that a significant portion of the population will be unable to afford healthcare. Poorer people are also at much higher risk for chronic disease, making their profit margin even narrower, potentially even a net negative at the price they could afford. That's why government intervention is necessary if you want to insure the poor, because there is no free market incentive to offer goods at a loss. If regulations were removed these groups would be excluded from access to healthcare once again. I'm not sure why you believe that government regulations are responsible for the lack of competition in health insurance companies rather than the extremely high free market barrier to entry of the health insurance field, but if you have any citations on why government regulation (as opposed to free market incentives) makes insuring poor people cost prohibitive, I'd love to see them.

[rpggal 332]

29 minutes ago, Chic said:

I said nothing about tax breaks. I don't agree with specific tax breaks for larger companies, I agree in across the board deregulation that 

The AHCA needed to be gutted because it's unsustainable* and no fix would make it sustainable.

What socialized healthcare will do is save the comparatively few elderly, poor and children while resulting in exponentially more elderly, poor and children to die years down the road*. Unsustainable.

*Citation needed

[Gaga Monster 13,001]

3 hours ago, Chic said:

1. Hardly. The more regulation, the more they shift to overseas operations where everything is cheaper and hinders their operations less. And that's only for the most luxurious companies. Every small business will be stifled by the same regulations, making them easy to fail. This leaves whichever corrupt big bank stays to vampirically suck the funds of the American people because there's no alternative but to submit. That's called a monopoly. Whatever can be done to give the people power without making it difficult for businesses to thrive is the best option.

2. I don't want to even get into the massive costs that socialized healthcare would bring along with it. It's ridiculous.

3. Honestly, the power (and even discussion) should be between patient and doctor. The costs should be lowered severely and an actual free market (no, pre-Obamacare was not it either) would fix the issue. Special involvement could be used to make sure that the people and not insurance companies benefit. It's a delicate process. But socialized healthcare would put less money in the pocket of the people to spend on other businesses for instance, which will crash them and cause them to fail in a horrifying domino effect. Just look how much businesses have failed and been unable to start due to regulation. Are you honestly satisfied with the economy as it is? Because I'm sure as hell not.

4. There is no full capitalistic government, so it can't be responsible for the rising costs of medication. That's false.

5. The economy was at a peak from 1983 onwards, and that's when the country pulled out of the recession exponentially faster and more effectively than Obama did in the same time he was allotted that Reagan had. Yeah, it was a hell of a lot worse in 2008 then it was in the early 1980's, but even FDR pulled the country out quicker during the Great Depression, and there was a boom not long afterwards. That's what we call the 1950's suburban glory days, when people could actually afford houses and to feed their families. Where is this post-Obama economic boom?

1. I run a small business and I can assure you every regulation in my sector is there to protect the people and make sure I am doing my job and following necessary rules. Deregulation mostly affects big businesses and Wall Street companies that pay barely any taxes yet when Wall Street Big Banks fail we have to pay to trillions to bail them out. You need big bank regulation because they can fail and we have to make sure they are not going to crash the economy like they did in 1930 and 2008. Small/limited government for big banks benefits the top 1%, they take advantage of small people. We need regulation to prevent monopolies from forming in health care and the big bank which more regulation does and more taxes, break up the big banks which is a progressive liberal policy.

2. Medicare and Medicaid are two single payer health care systems that have high approval ratings in the USA. If we expanded medicare for all, it would be more properly funded and would work in the USA. Overall, healthcare costs $21 Trillion in the USA (the most in any country yet our free market healthcare is the lowest approved). If we switch to single payer the cost would go down to $12 trillion because we are getting rid of administrative costs which is because there are so many health care systems they need so much in administrative costs to sort everything out. Plus a 7.5% payroll tax would easily cover the costs and save middle/lower income families so much money. A family paying $10,000 a year would only pay $5,000 a year. Plus businesses would not have to worry about paying for their own employees healthcare because everyone has health care. This gives them hours and hours of more time to focus on growing their business instead of figuring out which health care provider charges them the least to give to their employees. This saves small businesses and big businesses so much money.

3. I don't know where you are getting this whole regulation prevents small business from starting idea but that is wrong. I started my own business and I did so by paying for inspections and regulations because it was necessary for the common good of people. Regulations are needed and do not hurt businesses. Go back to the 1900's with no regulation and you will see the water and food and how contaminated everything was and how they put drugs in medicine and drinks. 

4. That is wrong, there is a free market in medicine. You see with a fully free market, big business charges people incredibly high costs because everyone does it. Some medicines go up by 85,000%  meaning seniors, the sick, the poor, the middle class foot the bill while rich CEOs keep on making more and more and charging more and more because no one is stopping them or controlling their price. That is a free market in medicine and obviously it is not working. 

5. I am so glad you brought up FDR. FDR used extreme liberal and progressive ideas to pull us out of the Great Depression and built a great middle class where minimum wage could feed a family without governmental assistance. FDR taxed the rich more than the poor/middle class and regulated businesses extremely. And guess what it worked, it showed that progressive/liberal ideas can fix America. The reason Obama had trouble because Republicans blocked everything. Republicans believe in lower regulation and lower government involvement which does not work because you need stimulus, tough Wall Street policies, and more taxes to pull us out and fix the people affected, the lower and middle class. And I am so glad you brought Raegan up because Raegan taught us how not to run the government. You see Raegan lowered the top 1% taxes by 50%, lowered government involvement, and had lobbyists. This destroyed the middle class, because all wage growth was going to the top 10%, while in 1935-1980, 70% went to the bottom 90%. Raegan showed us that hey, lets see what happens when you stop funding education, go against unions, lower taxes for the top, and lower regulations. And it showed us all wage growth goes to the top and led directly to the 2008 recession. It was short term growth for a long term problem.

Progressive ideas have been proven to work and trickle down economics have proven to cause recessions and only stimulate short term growth where progressive ideas are long term growth and work for the bottom 90%

 

[Whispering 18,865]

On 6/24/2017 at 0:36 PM, Chic said:

I said nothing about tax breaks. I don't agree with specific tax breaks for larger companies, I agree in across the board deregulation that allows smaller business to thrive instead of destroying them and making the big businesses move away. It's like killing cancer by stabbing the person in the heart.

The AHCA needed to be gutted because it's unsustainable and no fix would make it sustainable.

What socialized healthcare will do is save the comparatively few elderly, poor and children while resulting in exponentially more elderly, poor and children to die years down the road. Unsustainable.

There will never be a fix that saves everyone in the world forever and ever, but desperately clawing to save a few million today in a way that will result in the deaths of many more millions tomorrow is not a solution. I'd rather a few people hurt today for the sustainable benefit of future generations, even plenty of our own if done correctly. The death of people is sadly inevitable but the trick is to lessen it as a whole for the longest sustainable amount of time. And single payer healthcare is not going to do that.

Whether you said something about it or not, that's the other option- tax breaks for the wealthy.

The ACA was sustainable with tax increases to the wealthy and other compromises that could have been worked through. Maybe we should cut out that extension for young adults to 26. What would you have done for insurance then? 

Few? How is 20,000 people a few? And why is giving people healthcare from birth going to result in more deaths? That makes absolutely no sense! 

Giving babies well baby care, children check ups and vaccinations, adults yearly check ups, caring for sexual health and for the elderly does not result in more deaths. Where do you get this crazy notion from? Preventative care and yearly check ups save lives and save money, in the short term in long term. Your line of reasoning here isn't logical and it is completely inaccurate. 

[Lion Heart 15,041]

I mean, I can see why he pulled it. It wasn't ready yet.