Cultural Appropriation

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

36 minutes ago, River said:

I have a serious question.

Let's take Pizza Hut and Domino's, in the eye of many Italians they ripped off and violated the pizza, and pizza is one of biggest cultural dish in Italy and known all over the world.

So, is it cultural appropriation? should those companies close their doors and stop making profit of other country's culture?

Is pizza a major cultural object in Italian culture? Are Italian people considered minorities or treated as second class citizens in most places in the world? Does the globalization and commercialization of pizza contribute to outdated stereotypes used to oppress, persecute, and other Italians compared to other people? Is "pizza" as we know it a bastardized form of its original? Does it even resemble? What's the history of pizza as it was introduced to the world? Is it a symbol of oppression in the modern world? persecution? freedom? etc. How do Italian people feel about the exporting of Pizza to other cultures? 

I believe the answer to most of these questions is a strong no. These are the questions you should be asking when you are trying to see if something has been culturally appropriated. What you proposed was cute, but it didn't actually hit on what cultural appropriation is, or why we are critical of it, or why its damaging, etc. We have to actually engage with the arguments people put forth and try to understand them. I'm not trying to pick on you, your comment was just the most recent. People are confusing cultural assimilation, appreciation, and appropriation, but they are three related, but notably different topics  

 

Spoiler

Fun fact~ Although Italians were at some points in American history (I use America because I'm American) not lumped in with so-called "native" white Americans they are generally now considered "White" (which is a word denoting a social hierarchy historically, and not one "race") similar to how many Europeans are. Think Germans, Swedes, Swiss, Norwegian, Irish, etc. are. Sometimes they are seen as or identify as PoC, but it's all based on context and their social status is a combination of several factors relating to environment, skin color, language, etc. Basically, Intersectionality, every feminists best friend   

 

[River 117,297]

3 minutes ago, ItsTommyBitch said:

Is pizza a major cultural object in Italian culture? Are Italian people considered minorities or treated as second class citizens in most places in the world? Does the globalization and commercialization of pizza contribute to outdated stereotypes used to oppress, persecute, and other Italians compared to other people? Is "pizza" as we know it a bastardized form of its original? Does it even resemble? What's the history of pizza as it was introduced to the world? Is it a symbol of oppression in the modern world? persecution? freedom? etc.

I believe the answer to all of these questions is a strong no. These are the questions you should be asking when you are trying to see if something has been culturally appropriated. What you proposed was cute, but it didn't actually hit on what cultural appropriation is, or why we are critical of it, or why its damaging, etc. We have to actually engage with the arguments people put forth and try to understand them. I'm not trying to pick on you, your comment was just the most recent. People are confusing cultural assimilation, appreciation, and appropriation, but they are three related, but notably different topics  

 

  Hide contents

Fun fact~ Although Italians were at some points in American history (I use America because I'm American) not lumped in with so-called "native" white Americans they are generally now considered "White" (which is a word denoting a social hierarchy historically, and not one "race") similar to how many Europeans are. Think Germans, Swedes, Swiss, Norwegian, Irish, etc. are. Sometimes they are seen as or identify as PoC, but it's all based on context and their social status is a combination of several factors relating to environment, skin color, language, etc. Basically, Intersectionality, every feminists best friend   

 

Thank you for the explanation!

I really asked from ignorance, I don't have an opinion because I don't really understand this subject correctly and I see that it's more American thing (?) so when I read about it I was like woah so like most of things are cultural appropriation, what about a Disney movie like Frozen, is it cultural appropriation?! I became lost haha

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

20 minutes ago, River said:

Thank you for the explanation!

I really asked from ignorance, I don't have an opinion because I don't really understand this subject correctly and I see that it's more American thing (?) so when I read about it I was like woah so like most of things are cultural appropriation, what about a Disney movie like Frozen, is it cultural appropriation?! I became lost haha

I see.

I honestly thought you were trolling because with this topic people are often like "Well, if cornrows are appropriation, then what about *insert super white thing*? Black people use that" and its like they arent really trying or dont really get it and I was just tired of it. Sorry for jumping down your throat  

TO ME, Cultural Appropriation isnt the largest issue in the world for Social Justice, but it doesnt hurt to bring up when its appropriate (). Like, white women looking trendy for having natural hair styles for black women is imo always worth bringing attention to, because black women ARE persecuted, seen as unattractive, unprofessional, etc. for having natural hair and they are told by society that they have to have "white hair" to be taken seriously. Some black men even find black women unattractive because of their natural hair. It's actually a deeply politicized topic  And Katy wearing cornrows and eating watermelon in the "This is How We Do" video was just honestly racist, it was literally both her taking from black culture and using black stereotypes for comedy at the same time  

[Wolf 1,328]

Even though someone does not mean disrespect with appropriating a culture, doesn't mean the have the liberty to just wear anything they want. You need to know the line whether something is okay to be worn or not. 

People love to wear a cultural aesthetic without taking the time to learn and understand the meaning behind it. The thing is, Geisha culture dates back from 1700s. Women from Japan train since their childhood to become a Geisha and also gain their ranks throughout their lives. 

"From the way a Geisha does her makeup and hair to her clothing, its symbolism for something sacred. It is not a costume you can put on- like many other cultures, it’s something you have to earn." http://www.lappthebrand.com/2017/02/16/the-vogue-problem-with-cultural-appropriation/

It's not that people just want to hate Katy Perry. She's just absolutely wrong. A proper Geisha outfit should cover the legs BUT she made it look sexy. How do YOU think Japanese people would react? Would they just be okay with that? NO.

I can't with all of y'all in this thread. Clearly most of you are OBVIOUSLY white/privileged, cause you sound just like it. Obviously you don't know jack sh*t about other people disrespecting your own culture. Check your privilege.

[HauntingHollow 4,310]

i never understood this, why should somebody be offended because Katy wore Japanse themed clothing ( even though its pretty inaccurate ) ? I mean, you should be glad somebody appreciates your culture ! 

[Lanius 1,055]

16 minutes ago, Moncher said:

i never understood this, why should somebody be offended because Katy wore Japanse themed clothing ( even though its pretty inaccurate ) ? I mean, you should be glad somebody appreciates your culture ! 

Sis, The backlash was mostly due to Katy combing like three other asian other cultures into her unconditionally performance and tried to present it as Japanese culture 

 

Not to mention being a Geisha is sacred position. It's like those white girls wearing Indian headdresses to concerts. Headdress are scared items used in sermonizes and are worn by a select few in Native American culture, NOT to be worn by some wasted white girls who think it's "colololol!?1/1" 

It's offensive. 

[Cuchulainn 3,040]

25 minutes ago, Wolf said:

Even though someone does not mean disrespect with appropriating a culture, doesn't mean the have the liberty to just wear anything they want. You need to know the line whether something is okay to be worn or not. 

People love to wear a cultural aesthetic without taking the time to learn and understand the meaning behind it. The thing is, Geisha culture dates back from 1700s. Women from Japan train since their childhood to become a Geisha and also gain their ranks throughout their lives. 

"From the way a Geisha does her makeup and hair to her clothing, its symbolism for something sacred. It is not a costume you can put on- like many other cultures, it’s something you have to earn." http://www.lappthebrand.com/2017/02/16/the-vogue-problem-with-cultural-appropriation/

It's not that people just want to hate Katy Perry. She's just absolutely wrong. A proper Geisha outfit should cover the legs BUT she made it look sexy. How do YOU think Japanese people would react? Would they just be okay with that? NO.

I can't with all of y'all in this thread. Clearly most of you are OBVIOUSLY white/privileged, cause you sound just like it. Obviously you don't know jack sh*t about other people disrespecting your own culture. Check your privilege.

I mean my boyfriend is a Japanese native and thinks this whole Katy Perry example is ridiculous. Her dress is influenced by Japanese tradition, but it's not like she's preaching "this is authentic Japanese traditional style" it's just fashion.

My boyfriend also says he thinks it's cool when non-Japanese people wear Japanese influenced fashion. 

[LibraOctober98 3,501]

If she knows it's cultural appropriation aka this has happened a few times before then it definitely should be called out. We shouldn't let the racism BUILD

[Wolf 1,328]

Just now, Creativek said:

I mean my boyfriend is a Japanese native and thinks this whole Katy Perry example is ridiculous. Her dress is influenced by Japanese tradition, but it's not like she's preaching "this is authentic Japanese traditional style" it's just fashion.

My boyfriend also says he thinks it's cool when non-Japanese people wear Japanese influenced fashion. 

but then he doesn't speak for all of Japan right? and he's not even a female

It doesn't mean that when it's okay for one Japanese person then it's not an issue anymore.

[Cuchulainn 3,040]

3 minutes ago, Wolf said:

but then he doesn't speak for all of Japan right? and he's not even a female

It doesn't mean that when it's okay for one Japanese person then it's not an issue anymore.

Well you seemed to speak for all of Japan in your original argument, so I am bringing up my boyfriend's opinion because he can speak on behalf of how a Japanese person might feel about this situation moreso than a non-Japanese person can.

I don't think being female or not is relevant to your argument.

[Lanius 1,055]

9 minutes ago, Creativek said:

I mean my boyfriend is a Japanese native and thinks this whole Katy Perry example is ridiculous. Her dress is influenced by Japanese tradition, but it's not like she's preaching "this is authentic Japanese traditional style" it's just fashion.

My boyfriend also says he thinks it's cool when non-Japanese people wear Japanese influenced fashion. 

Just because there is ONE Japanese person okay with doesn't mean it's a none issue. 

[River 117,297]

41 minutes ago, ItsTommyBitch said:

I see.

I honestly thought you were trolling because with this topic people are often like "Well, if cornrows are appropriation, then what about *insert super white thing*? Black people use that" and its like they arent really trying or dont really get it and I was just tired of it. Sorry for jumping down your throat  

TO ME, Cultural Appropriation isnt the largest issue in the world for Social Justice, but it doesnt hurt to bring up when its appropriate (). Like, white women looking trendy for having natural hair styles for black women is imo always worth bringing attention to, because black women ARE persecuted, seen as unattractive, unprofessional, etc. for having natural hair and they are told by society that they have to have "white hair" to be taken seriously. Some black men even find black women unattractive because of their natural hair. It's actually a deeply politicized topic  And Katy wearing cornrows and eating watermelon in the "This is How We Do" video was just honestly racist, it was literally both her taking from black culture and using black stereotypes for comedy at the same time  

No problem, I understood that, my post was not that clear too, so it's not your fault but mine

damn, I didn't know that about the hair, it suppose to be something so natural and without even a problem, is society really that problematic?! and I consider the natural hair of the black women really beautiful and all the amazing things that they are doing with their hair is really an art imo.

When I saw Katy in the video, I swear, I had no clue! for me it looked like just another wig, I didn't know the story about it!

Do you consider Gwen and the Harajuku Girls as Cultural Appropriation for example? because as I see it, from neutral point of view, she embraced this culture and let us know that it exist, but in the other hand she used it for profit and even designed clothes for her line. so I would like to know what do you think and to learn from it.

 

[Wolf 1,328]

1 minute ago, Creativek said:

Well you seemed to speak for all of Japan in your original argument, so I am bringing up my boyfriend's opinion because he can speak on behalf of how a Japanese person might feel about this situation moreso than a non-Japanese person can.

I don't think being female or not is relevant.

But the difference is that your boyfriend is just saying an opinion, when I am bringing a relevant and factual issue. I may not be Japanese but I know what it's like to belong in a cultural minority and watch someone with more power just do anything they want.

[Cuchulainn 3,040]

Just now, Wolf said:

But the difference is that your boyfriend is just saying an opinion, when I am bringing a relevant and factual issue. I may not be Japanese but I know what it's like to belong in a cultural minority and watch someone with more power just do anything they want.

I don't think you have factual information regarding how offensive this is to native Japanese. I just see another opinion.

[Bette Davis 12,742]

39 minutes ago, Wolf said:

Even though someone does not mean disrespect with appropriating a culture, doesn't mean the have the liberty to just wear anything they want. You need to know the line whether something is okay to be worn or not. 

People love to wear a cultural aesthetic without taking the time to learn and understand the meaning behind it. The thing is, Geisha culture dates back from 1700s. Women from Japan train since their childhood to become a Geisha and also gain their ranks throughout their lives. 

"From the way a Geisha does her makeup and hair to her clothing, its symbolism for something sacred. It is not a costume you can put on- like many other cultures, it’s something you have to earn." http://www.lappthebrand.com/2017/02/16/the-vogue-problem-with-cultural-appropriation/

It's not that people just want to hate Katy Perry. She's just absolutely wrong. A proper Geisha outfit should cover the legs BUT she made it look sexy. How do YOU think Japanese people would react? Would they just be okay with that? NO.

I can't with all of y'all in this thread. Clearly most of you are OBVIOUSLY white/privileged, cause you sound just like it. Obviously you don't know jack sh*t about other people disrespecting your own culture. Check your privilege.

She's not even dressed as a geisha or even in Japanese attire for that matter  It's a Chinese dress called a qipao. I'm sorry, it's just a little ironic after reading your post 

Japanese Geisha

Chinese Qipao