RE: Rainbow addition

[Trepadation 5,566]

So I was on Twitter and black twitter was dragging Elizabeth banks for not knowing the movie the color purple since she called out Steven Spielberg for not making movie with a female lead (the color purple has a female lead). And it hit, purple is the color that can be used to represent black people. So there isn't a need for the addition of black and brown. 

[whore 11,447]

life (red), healing (orange), sunlight (yellow), nature (green), harmony/peace (blue), and spirit (purple/violet)

And that was from Google 

[Trepadation 5,566]

4 minutes ago, Possibly Maybe said:

life (red), healing (orange), sunlight (yellow), nature (green), harmony/peace (blue), and spirit (purple/violet)

And that was from Google 

 I actually didn't know that 

a+ on research 

OT: I'm just saying people can think of purple as their inclusion instead of adding the new colors. Not that the color actually represents a race 

[River 129,023]

But we don't want the flag to represent a race..

[Trepadation 5,566]

2 minutes ago, River said:

But we don't want the flag to represent a race..

Read comment above ( ´ ▽ ` )ﾉ

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

7 minutes ago, Trepadation said:

 I actually didn't know that 

a+ on research 

OT: I'm just saying people can think of purple as their inclusion instead of adding the new colors. Not that the color actually represents a race 

You're not alone, it looks like a vast majority of the forum doesn't know  

 

[Ziggy 14,313]

About this flag, I get where some in the black community feel as though the gay community and namely the flag have been coopted by white, affluent, cis gay men. As such they want to feel like they still belong, I get it. The issue I take with it is that it's a performative act that doesn't actually do very much to combat racism or exclusionary practices among the LGBTQA. Secondly, as stated before, the colors represent things regardless of race. That can be problematic as in this case where the queer community has largely been coopted by a specific demographic, but the motivated action shouldn't be to change the flag, just reclaim it as your own since it's rightfully your own. Genuine action instead of an easily shareable social media act is what will motivate real change. Least importantly, but bugs me still is that if you change the flag it wouldn't be the standard flag size anymore which makes flags more expensive and thus more difficult to purchase and display.

[Trepadation 5,566]

3 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

About this flag, I get where some in the black community feel as though the gay community and namely the flag have been coopted by white, affluent, cis gay men. As such they want to feel like they still belong, I get it. The issue I take with it is that it's a performative act that doesn't actually do very much to combat racism or exclusionary practices among the LGBTQA. Secondly, as stated before, the colors represent things regardless of race. That can be problematic as in this case where the queer community has largely been coopted by a specific demographic, but the motivated action shouldn't be to change the flag, just reclaim it as your own since it's rightfully your own. Genuine action instead of an easily shareable social media act is what will motivate real change. Least importantly, but bugs me still is that if you change the flag it wouldn't be the standard flag size anymore which makes flags more expensive and thus more difficult to purchase and display.

[Bebe 17,289]

35 minutes ago, Trepadation said:

 I actually didn't know that 

a+ on research 

OT: I'm just saying people can think of purple as their inclusion instead of adding the new colors. Not that the color actually represents a race 

But even ignoring what all the colours represent, how does your idea increase visibility to LGBTQPOC? How does that bring attention to the specific and unique issues LGBTQPOC face as a result of a mixture of their race and sexuality? Because that was the intention of changing the flag.

Many LGBTQPOC have argued for a long time that their issues are not treated seriously or are seen as too niche to worry about. They have tried to fight for more visibility for a long time, visibility they clearly need. A "why not just think of purple as your inclusion?" does literally nothing to change the status quo.

I'm not saying the black and brown stripes are some huge stride towards fixing the issues LGBTQPOC face, but at least they are a strong statement that Pride is serious about acknowledging that many POC have different experiences with their sexuality and gender identity as a result of their race, that these people have often been ignored and their issues dismissed and that they are now serious about working towards a more inclusive community that pays attention to those specific issues and includes them in their mission.

[River 129,023]

Just now, Bebe said:

But even ignoring what all the colours represent, how does your idea increase visibility to LGBTQPOC? How does that bring attention to the specific and unique issues LGBTQPOC face as a result of a mixture of their race and sexuality? Because that was the intention of changing the flag.

Many LGBTQPOC have argued for a long time that their issues are not treated seriously or are seen as too niche to worry about. They have tried to fight for more visibility for a long time, visibility they clearly need. A "why not just think of purple as your inclusion?" does literally nothing to change the status quo.

I'm not saying the black and brown stripes are some huge stride towards fixing the issues LGBTQPOC face, but at least they are a strong statement that Pride is serious about acknowledging that many POC have different experiences with their sexuality and gender identity as a result of their race, that these people have often been ignored and their issues dismissed and that they are now serious about working towards a more inclusive community that pays attention to those specific issues and includes them in their mission.

They can do it in a different way, no matter how much you write LGBTQPOC, it would never happen.

No matter how much they will try to add the black and brown, it would never happen.

The community is about sexuality and not about race.

In our community you can see the highest rate of mixed races/nationalities/religions of couples, our queen drag queen is black.. so come on..

We fight for human rights because of our sexuality and not for our race, and with this fight, no matter what is your color or your race or if you like bdsm, you are welcome all the time. when you start to add a race to a neutral cause, it's the time that YOU become the racist..

My suggestion, just like the bears, the bi, the asexual and so on, to make a their own flag, they can march with it all the time.. but they wouldn't do it because it'll be racist, so they want to leech on and rape our flag..

[Bebe 17,289]

Just now, River said:

They can do it in a different way, no matter how much you write LGBTQPOC, it would never happen.

No matter how much they will try to add the black and brown, it would never happen.

The community is about sexuality and not about race.

In our community you can see the highest rate of mixed races/nationalities/religions of couples, our queen drag queen is black.. so come on..

We fight for human rights because of our sexuality and not for our race, and with this fight, no matter what is your color or your race or if you like bdsm, you are welcome all the time. when you start to add a race to a neutral cause, it's the time that YOU become the racist..

My suggestion, just like the bears, the bi, the asexual and so on, to make a their own flag, they can march with it all the time.. but they wouldn't do it because it'll be racist, so they want to leech on and rape our flag..

"They can do it in a different way, no matter how much you write LGBTQPOC, it would never happen."

What will never happen?

"No matter how much they will try to add the black and brown, it would never happen."

It already has in Philadelphia: http://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/13/health/new-pride-flag-colors-trnd/index.html

But I'm not really talking about whether it's possible or probable or any of that.


"The community is about sexuality and not about race."

Yes, and this is about sexuality  It's totally relevant to the LGBTQ+ movement. 

Here is the thing:

4/5 LGBT homicide victims are POC. Of those 50% are Trans women of colour.

Black LGBTQ people continue to be economically disadvantaged because of persistent discrimination, housing insecurity, a lack of quality, affordable healthcare and fewer educational opportunities. A 2012 report found that "32 percent of children being raised by Black same-sex couples live in poverty, compared to 13 percent of children being raised by heterosexual Black parents and just 7 percent being raised by married heterosexual white parents." Additionally, Black transgender people face severe rates of poverty, with 34 percent living in extreme poverty compared to just 9 percent of non-transgender Black people.

In regards to hate violence against LGBT people, black survivors of hate violence were 1.3 times more likely to experience police violence than their non-Black counterparts. Black survivors were also twice as likely to experience any physical violence, twice as likely to experience discrimination and 1.4 times more likely to experience threats and intimidation during acts of hate violence. Additionally, Black transgender women face the highest levels of fatal violence within the LGBTQ community and are less likely to turn to police for help for fear of revictimization by law enforcement personnel. According to the National Transgender Discrimination Survey, 38 percent of Black transgender people who interacted with police reported harassment; 14 percent reported physical assault from police and 6 percent reported sexual assault. Such high rates of revictimization by police is a major barrier to dealing with anti-transgender violence.  Data from the 2011 National Transgender Discrimination Survey found disproportionately high rates of arrest and incarceration among Black transgender people when compared to all other racial and ethnic groups.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, young, Black gay and bisexual men are among the communities most heavily affected by HIV. In the city of Atlanta, for example, a young, Black gay man now has a 60 percent chance of becoming HIV-positive by the age of 30 even though Black gay and bisexual men are more likely to engage in safer sex practices than their white counterparts. There is still a HIV/AIDS crisis in some communities but they are being ignored.

 

Many ethnic groups under the "POC" umbrella recognise more than two genders or think of queerness in a way that is different from how 'white' LGBTQ people think of gender and sexuality.

A recent report by the Center for American Progress’ FIRE Initiative also found that this combination of anti-LGBT bias and racial discrimination derails black gay and transgender Americans’ financial stability, creates barriers to accessing quality health care and erodes safeguards for LGBT families. This is also true for other LGBT communities of color, like Hispanic, Native American and Asian communities.

That's not even mentioning that issues specific to Queer/Trans People of Colour are often looked upon as divisive and nichè and that some QTPOC don't have the freedom to feel totally included in queer spaces when they are also faced with casual or overt racism within the community. (Whether that's a queer latina women being called "Chica" by a queer woman making an advance or whether that be the Asian gay men who has consistently been told by queer men that they are "just not into Asians")
 

(http://www.hrc.org/resources/being-african-american-lgbtq-an-introduction)
(https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/reports/2012/01/19/10962/jumping-beyond-the-broom/)


THESE ARE ALL LGBTQ+ ISSUES, but these issues are unique to people of colour. All this is about is recognising that POC experience their sexuality and gender identity differently and that the movement includes their unique LGBTQ+ related issues.


"In our community you can see the highest rate of mixed races/nationalities/religions of couples, our queen drag queen is black.. so come on."

And that's great? Let's embrace that and recognise the unique LGBTQ+ related issues that POC experience and work to solve those issues as part of one united community.


"We fight for human rights because of our sexuality and not for our race, and with this fight, no matter what is your color or your race or if you like bdsm, you are welcome all the time. when you start to add a race to a neutral cause, it's the time that YOU become the racist.."

But this IS LGBTQ+ related... It's just a simple fact that many POC experience their sexuality and gender expression differently and have unique LGBTQ+ related issues as a result of intersectional problems. Many POC don't feel welcome and don't feel like their issues are treated seriously  

"My suggestion, just like the bears, the bi, the asexual and so on, to make a their own flag, they can march with it all the time.. but they wouldn't do it because it'll be racist, so they want to leech on and rape our flag.."

They have, they have even created their own pride rallies because they don't feel like the main event is inclusive enough or seriously addresses the major concerns of their communities... Isn't that kinda shitty though? We are supposed to be united, we are supposed to care about all LGBTQ+ related issues - why don't we work to become more united, more inclusive and actually address the important and unique LGBTQ+ related issues POC face as one united front? 

[River 129,023]

10 minutes ago, Bebe said:

"They can do it in a different way, no matter how much you write LGBTQPOC, it would never happen."

What will never happen?

"No matter how much they will try to add the black and brown, it would never happen."

It already has in Philadelphia: http://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/13/health/new-pride-flag-colors-trnd/index.html

But I'm not really talking about whether it's possible or probable or any of that.


"The community is about sexuality and not about race."

Yes, and this is about sexuality  It's totally relevant to the LGBTQ+ movement. 

Here is the thing:

4/5 LGBT homicide victims are POC. Of those 50% are Trans women of colour.

Black LGBTQ people continue to be economically disadvantaged because of persistent discrimination, housing insecurity, a lack of quality, affordable healthcare and fewer educational opportunities. A 2012 report found that "32 percent of children being raised by Black same-sex couples live in poverty, compared to 13 percent of children being raised by heterosexual Black parents and just 7 percent being raised by married heterosexual white parents." Additionally, Black transgender people face severe rates of poverty, with 34 percent living in extreme poverty compared to just 9 percent of non-transgender Black people.

In regards to hate violence against LGBT people, black survivors of hate violence were 1.3 times more likely to experience police violence than their non-Black counterparts. Black survivors were also twice as likely to experience any physical violence, twice as likely to experience discrimination and 1.4 times more likely to experience threats and intimidation during acts of hate violence. Additionally, Black transgender women face the highest levels of fatal violence within the LGBTQ community and are less likely to turn to police for help for fear of revictimization by law enforcement personnel. According to the National Transgender Discrimination Survey, 38 percent of Black transgender people who interacted with police reported harassment; 14 percent reported physical assault from police and 6 percent reported sexual assault. Such high rates of revictimization by police is a major barrier to dealing with anti-transgender violence.  Data from the 2011 National Transgender Discrimination Survey found disproportionately high rates of arrest and incarceration among Black transgender people when compared to all other racial and ethnic groups.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, young, Black gay and bisexual men are among the communities most heavily affected by HIV. In the city of Atlanta, for example, a young, Black gay man now has a 60 percent chance of becoming HIV-positive by the age of 30 even though Black gay and bisexual men are more likely to engage in safer sex practices than their white counterparts. There is still a HIV/AIDS crisis in some communities but they are being ignored.

 

Many ethnic groups under the "POC" umbrella recognise more than two genders or think of queerness in a way that is different from how 'white' LGBTQ people think of gender and sexuality.

A recent report by the Center for American Progress’ FIRE Initiative also found that this combination of anti-LGBT bias and racial discrimination derails black gay and transgender Americans’ financial stability, creates barriers to accessing quality health care and erodes safeguards for LGBT families. This is also true for other LGBT communities of color, like Hispanic, Native American and Asian communities.

That's not even mentioning that issues specific to Queer/Trans People of Colour are often looked upon as divisive and nichè and that some QTPOC don't have the freedom to feel totally included in queer spaces when they are also faced with casual or overt racism within the community. (Whether that's a queer latina women being called "Chica" by a queer woman making an advance or whether that be the Asian gay men who has consistently been told by queer men that they are "just not into Asians")
 

(http://www.hrc.org/resources/being-african-american-lgbtq-an-introduction)
(https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/reports/2012/01/19/10962/jumping-beyond-the-broom/)


THESE ARE ALL LGBTQ+ ISSUES, but these issues are unique to people of colour. All this is about is recognising that POC experience their sexuality and gender identity differently and that the movement includes their unique LGBTQ+ related issues.


"In our community you can see the highest rate of mixed races/nationalities/religions of couples, our queen drag queen is black.. so come on."

And that's great? Let's embrace that and recognise the unique LGBTQ+ related issues that POC experience and work to solve those issues as part of one united community.


"We fight for human rights because of our sexuality and not for our race, and with this fight, no matter what is your color or your race or if you like bdsm, you are welcome all the time. when you start to add a race to a neutral cause, it's the time that YOU become the racist.."

But this IS LGBTQ+ related... It's just a simple fact that many POC experience their sexuality and gender expression differently and have unique LGBTQ+ related issues as a result of intersectional problems. Many POC don't feel welcome and don't feel like their issues are treated seriously  

"My suggestion, just like the bears, the bi, the asexual and so on, to make a their own flag, they can march with it all the time.. but they wouldn't do it because it'll be racist, so they want to leech on and rape our flag.."

They have, they have even created their own pride rallies because they don't feel like the main event is inclusive enough or seriously addresses the major concerns of their communities... Isn't that kinda shitty though? We are supposed to be united, we are supposed to care about all LGBTQ+ related issues - why don't we work to become more united, more inclusive and actually address the important and unique LGBTQ+ related issues POC face as one united front? 

"What will never happen? "

The "LGBTQPOC" that you are using, it'll not go through, no one will use it by few.

Can I use now BLMLGBTQ? because I don't feel that BLM is representing the  black LGBTQ community members, I really am.

And it'll remain in Philadelphia, no one wants it, what they did is just to be scandalous and piss everyone off.. and they achieved it.. and for what? it's not going to change anything, they just made people go against them.. as you can see.

It's not about sexuality, how race is about sexuality? race is not a sexuality.. are you even part of the community? when you came out did you say "mom, dad I'm black?" come on!!!!

Explain to me how race is sexuality, really, maybe I'm ignorant.

Your example is a totally different problem that has no connection to the LGBTQ fight, which is human rights for all the community no matter the race or color and so on. this is the general idea.

Your example is a problem that both communities needs to solve, the POC and LGBTQ, and the solution is not 2 colors in the flag, not at all.. it actually just making the problem bigger...

There is homophobia in many POC communities and it needs to be solved, but what BLM for example did to stop it? nothing, they don't even care.

No one is saying that those problems are not urgent! we are saying that there's no place for them on the flag, simple is that.. the flag has a specific meaning and we don't want to change that, so why to force it on us??

Yes that's great because it shows that the community is open minded, is not racist! and instead of rolling your eyes, you need to admire it that we achieved that.

Let me tell you something... no matter what is your color or race, as a LGBTQ, you never feel welcomed, you never feel part of something.. it's a global feeling in our community and not special for POC.

They will never feel it, because they don't want to feel it, because as long as there is 0.1% of white, they will never feel it.. but this is a problem that they need to admit that they have and they need to learn to solve it by themselves.

I'm not considering myself white, my skin is dark middle eastern color, I'm Israeli with Iraqi origins, nothing in me is white, my opportunities everywhere are worst than a black person because I'm considered below them on the list, but in the LGBTQ community I feel equal every single second! I feel that people are see me as who I am and not by my race or color. and tbh I always stoof with pride and didn't put my race and skin in front of me, I put them behind me, because they are useless to my life, I learned to let people see ME.

[Bebe 17,289]

28 minutes ago, River said:

"What will never happen? "

The "LGBTQPOC" that you are using, it'll not go through, no one will use it by few.

Can I use now BLMLGBTQ? because I don't feel that BLM is representing the  black LGBTQ community members, I really am.

And it'll remain in Philadelphia, no one wants it, what they did is just to be scandalous and piss everyone off.. and they achieved it.. and for what? it's not going to change anything, they just made people go against them.. as you can see.

It's not about sexuality, how race is about sexuality? race is not a sexuality.. are you even part of the community? when you came out did you say "mom, dad I'm black?" come on!!!!

Explain to me how race is sexuality, really, maybe I'm ignorant.

Your example is a totally different problem that has no connection to the LGBTQ fight, which is human rights for all the community no matter the race or color and so on. this is the general idea.

Your example is a problem that both communities needs to solve, the POC and LGBTQ, and the solution is not 2 colors in the flag, not at all.. it actually just making the problem bigger...

There is homophobia in many POC communities and it needs to be solved, but what BLM for example did to stop it? nothing, they don't even care.

No one is saying that those problems are not urgent! we are saying that there's no place for them on the flag, simple is that.. the flag has a specific meaning and we don't want to change that, so why to force it on us??

Yes that's great because it shows that the community is open minded, is not racist! and instead of rolling your eyes, you need to admire it that we achieved that.

Let me tell you something... no matter what is your color or race, as a LGBTQ, you never feel welcomed, you never feel part of something.. it's a global feeling in our community and not special for POC.

They will never feel it, because they don't want to feel it, because as long as there is 0.1% of white, they will never feel it.. but this is a problem that they need to admit that they have and they need to learn to solve it by themselves.

I'm not considering myself white, my skin is dark middle eastern color, I'm Israeli with Iraqi origins, nothing in me is white, my opportunities everywhere are worst than a black person because I'm considered below them on the list, but in the LGBTQ community I feel equal every single second! I feel that people are see me as who I am and not by my race or color. and tbh I always stoof with pride and didn't put my race and skin in front of me, I put them behind me, because they are useless to my life, I learned to let people see ME.

"The "LGBTQPOC" that you are using, it'll not go through, no one will use it by few.

Can I use now BLMLGBTQ? because I don't feel that BLM is representing the  black LGBTQ community members, I really am."

  I'm not suggesting that LGBTQ+ be expanded to "LGBTQPOC" I'm using that term to refer specifically to people of colour who are LGBTQ+ 


"It's not about sexuality, how race is about sexuality? race is not a sexuality.. are you even part of the community? when you came out did you say "mom, dad I'm black?" come on!!!!

Explain to me how race is sexuality, really, maybe I'm ignorant."

You're ignoring what I'm saying... The black and brown stripes are not about including all black issues into the discussion... You know that right? It's about acknowledging POC who have unique and different experiences of their gender and sexuality. 

"Your example is a problem that both communities needs to solve, the POC and LGBTQ, and the solution is not 2 colors in the flag, not at all.. it actually just making the problem bigger...

There is homophobia in many POC communities and it needs to be solved, but what BLM for example did to stop it? nothing, they don't even care."

Part of the solution is more visibility, something that that LGBTQPOC currently lack, I don't think the flag is causing much of a problem other than some people like "OMG but, the original flag - you can't change it". There was fustration when 'B' was added to LGB because they were seen as part time gays and anger when 'T' was added to LGBT because it was seen that sexuality and gender expression are different. 

Your point about BLM isn't relevant to the discussion  If anything it shows just how marginalised LGBTQPOC are within both the LGBT community and the black community. You're argument seems to be "BLM hasn't done enough to accept black LGBTQ+ people, so why should WE care about LGBTQ+ people who are black?" 

"No one is saying that those problems are not urgent! we are saying that there's no place for them on the flag, simple is that.. the flag has a specific meaning and we don't want to change that, so why to force it on us??"

Except people are saying those problems are not urgent... These issues have constantly been pushed aside as niche problems or unimportant issues. For decades many LGBTQPOC have been pushing for more visibility for them and their unique LGBT+ issues. Clearly the change in the flag has sparked a lot of conversation and has already increased visibility to LGBTQPOC and their issues. That's a good step, considering that we are talking about the most disadvantaged, marginalised and at-risk members of our community. The original design is still there, it's just that two other colours have been added. 

"Yes that's great because it shows that the community is open minded, is not racist! and instead of rolling your eyes, you need to admire it that we achieved that."

I'm not rolling my eyes at anything... It's great that our community is diverse, lets keep pushing inclusivity and let's keep focusing on LGBTQ+ issues facing all our members.

"Let me tell you something... no matter what is your color or race, as a LGBTQ, you never feel welcomed, you never feel part of something.. it's a global feeling in our community and not special for POC."

This isn't an attack on white LGBTQ+ people or issues concerning them, so why act as if it is? Regardless, I've shown you statistics on how LGBTQPOC have different experiences as a result of their sexuality and gender.

"They will never feel it, because they don't want to feel it, because as long as there is 0.1% of white, they will never feel it.. but this is a problem that they need to admit that they have and they need to learn to solve it by themselves."

I don't even know what you are trying to say here, it's nonsensical. We are talking about people who, we can see are the most vulnerable members of our community, feel their very real and very urgent issues have been ignored for decades. They want their issues to be taken seriously and believe adding two colours to the flag is the most efficient way of finally gaining some visibility within the LGBT community.

"I'm not considering myself white, my skin is dark middle eastern color, I'm Israeli with Iraqi origins, nothing in me is white, my opportunities everywhere are worst than a black person because I'm considered below them on the list, but in the LGBTQ community I feel equal every single second! I feel that people are see me as who I am and not by my race or color. and tbh I always stoof with pride and didn't put my race and skin in front of me, I put them behind me, because they are useless to my life, I learned to let people see ME."

That's fantastic, and I'm truly glad you feel that way,  but it's not really relevant to the discussion.

[Duella Dvil 12,148]

I like this better than just adding the bars. I really hate to sound like "THAT" guy but two of my closest friends are TransPOC. My boyfriend is a POC. 

There is a gross undertone of racism in the Gay community. No blacks, Femmes, or Asians. I saw someone have NO TERRORISTS! 

In a world where gays for Trump exist it should make sense to anyone who hears this debate why it is Happening.

There is a problem and the previous symbol of pride doesn't hold pride for them because it's been confiscated by the men who have exiled them from being able to feel like people. In the gay community black men are fetishized or ignored.

So please, quit with the fake woke "the flag isn't about race" BS

[Melech 9,900]

3 hours ago, Bebe said:

But even ignoring what all the colours represent, how does your idea increase visibility to LGBTQPOC? How does that bring attention to the specific and unique issues LGBTQPOC face as a result of a mixture of their race and sexuality? Because that was the intention of changing the flag.

Many LGBTQPOC have argued for a long time that their issues are not treated seriously or are seen as too niche to worry about. They have tried to fight for more visibility for a long time, visibility they clearly need. A "why not just think of purple as your inclusion?" does literally nothing to change the status quo.

I'm not saying the black and brown stripes are some huge stride towards fixing the issues LGBTQPOC face, but at least they are a strong statement that Pride is serious about acknowledging that many POC have different experiences with their sexuality and gender identity as a result of their race, that these people have often been ignored and their issues dismissed and that they are now serious about working towards a more inclusive community that pays attention to those specific issues and includes them in their mission.

Should there be an addition for inter* people, non binary, Asiens, roma,  muslims, Jews etc. ? 

They are all marginalized, yet no one brings that to discussion