Trump Impeachment Could Hurt Democrats

[Born To Slay 10,996]

1 minute ago, Whispering said:

The studies, published jointly by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center and the Urban Institute in Washington, conclude that Sanders's plans are short a total of more than $18 trillion over a decade. His programs would cost the federal government about $33 trillion over that period, almost all of which would go toward Sanders's proposed system of national health insurance. Yet the Democratic presidential candidate has put forward just $15 trillion in new taxes, the authors concluded.

In principle, national health insurance could make many families better off overall, without imposing unsustainable burdens on the federal budget. For the system to work in terms of dollars and cents, though, the benefits would have to be less generous than they are in the system Sanders has proposed, or the taxes would have to be more onerous for the middle class, as they are in many European countries.

 

Also, Sanders implies everything will be covered because he knows how important that question is to people. But everything won't be covered. So who decides, how do they decide, what gets covered, and what doesn't? Without knowing that, it's impossible to say whether a particular single-payer system is a good idea or a really, really bad one. 

How do you guarantee physical access to medical care? Right now hospitals charge Medicaid one price, Medicare a somewhat higher price, and private insurers an even higher price. If the entire system is squeezed down to Medicare pricing, a lot of hospitals are going to close. How will Sanders keep that from happening? Or will he let it happen, even if it means people in rural areas need to drive hours for care?

Like I stated before, it is a complex system, especially for 340 million people...many who are used to a certain standard of care and will demand the same...and many who are undocumented or at poverty level. 

You do know that many Presidents have proposed variations of this and tried to get something done on this issue, with public support. It's going to be a decades long process, not easy or simplistic like Bernie proposes. 

 

Okay, fair enough. It seems that under Bernies plan there are some problems. Maybe we could increase taxes further then what Bernie initially proposed? Your article does give the option that Bernie could make larger tax increases to pay for what he suggested. 

The hospital point is a good one as well, I'm not sure how they'd keep the hospitals open. 

I'm curious to hear what differences from his previous plan will be in the bill he introduces to congress. 

All this said, Bernie never promised it'd be fast or easy, in fact, it was pretty clear that this was gonna cause a long debate on healthcare if he were elected and the plan actually put into place would be different then Bernie's prototype. Bernie is not Trump.

[Born To Slay 10,996]

1 minute ago, Economy said:

To be sure tho i dont wanna sugar coat it. Theres downsides to everything...

 

Some things are indeed slower than in the US. Not everything. Most people can see family doctors quickly and most basic tests are fast also. Many day surgeries are also quick.

 

Some types of surgeries and specialists do have backlogs and sometimes you have to wait a few weeks. In some cases months for surgeries. It depends what it is. My dad had a small hernia for example and he had to wait 10 weeks to do surgery because there was nothing life threatning about it and other patients had more serious needs.

 

Again the ER in hospitals sometimes are a bit crowded and they have to prioritize. You wont always be seen right away if what you have is not serious.

 

But anything serious and you always get put on priority and get treatment quickly. Like my brother for example who just got a heart attack from virus. His treatment was obviously instant

 

My point is non serious stuff sometimes has a bit of a wait. But I think its worth the trade off of not worrying about expenses and whether or not your going to be covered for treatment. Health is not something we generally really ever worry about

Yeah I agree with you that it's a fair trade. So how does Canada afford to do this? Maybe that answer could help me in my discussion with Whispering.

[Economy 52,844]

14 minutes ago, Born To Slay said:

Yeah I agree with you that it's a fair trade. So how does Canada afford to do this? Maybe that answer could help me in my discussion with Whispering.

Well 45% of our Provincial budget goes into Healthcare (expected to be 50% by 2030). At the Federal Level its a simmilar comitment. 

 

Our doctors are typically payed $90,000 to $130,000 anually (depends on what type of doctor and in Which Province) which is lower than in US. Its still high enough for being a doctor to be a desirable job but we save money by not paying them close to $200,000

 

Our debt to GDP is only 33% vs over 100% in most developed Nations and therefore interest payments are low. Also we spend only 1% of GDP on military and its more than enough. Our focus is on North Pole cuz Russia keeps flying over our land without permission and we dont know why so we keep an eye on them. We still have enough left over to participate in global military efforts.

 

I guess just allocating money efficiently. Canada is not the high tax Nation it was up until the 1980s despite still having that reputation.

 

Our Corporate tax is 15%, Small business tax 11% (to drop to 9% soon), and our highest income tax bracket is 33%

 

All 3 of those main taxes are higher in the US and most of Europe

and Developed world. So it is possible to pay for free healthcare without having to tax like hell. Money just has to be spent properly

 

Some say Canada has high import taxes. Its true. But considering most of our trade is with USA, Mexico and China in which we have free trade agreements with, only a small fraction of our imports are actually subject to those taxes.

 

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

Bernie Sanders wants to tax us to death so we can have free health care....8-/

[Whispering 18,865]

13 minutes ago, Born To Slay said:

Okay, fair enough. It seems that under Bernies plan there are some problems. Maybe we could increase taxes further then what Bernie initially proposed? Your article does give the option that Bernie could make larger tax increases to pay for what he suggested. 

The hospital point is a good one as well, I'm not sure how they'd keep the hospitals open. 

I'm curious to hear what differences from his previous plan will be in the bill he introduces to congress. 

All this said, Bernie never promised it'd be fast or easy, in fact, it was pretty clear that this was gonna cause a long debate on healthcare if he were elected and the plan actually put into place would be different then Bernie's prototype. Bernie is not Trump.

Yes, the taxes would have to go beyond what he proposed, for the services he was saying would be available. 

It would be way more than a long debate. It would be just the beginning. It would take decades to work through and adjust taxes and expectations. 

People would have to adjust to this reality: 

"Some types of surgeries and specialists do have backlogs and sometimes you have to wait a few weeks. In some cases months for surgeries. It depends what it is. My dad had a small hernia for example and he had to wait 10 weeks to do surgery because there was nothing life threatning about it and other patients had more serious needs."

Most people in the US do not have to wait months for surgeries, even if they are non-emergency. We have more technology, doctors and specialists per person than Canada. Insurance plans offer mental health care and addiction treatment, not just a Psychiatrist visit. People on employee based systems and Medicare currently would be unhappy with the waits and lack of certain services and benefits. 

The money has to come from taxes, the federal budget or state budgets and will include an adjustment of what Americans are used to. Americans are spoiled in many ways, including healthcare and the services that surround it. Unless you have lived a couple of decades under both systems, with some healthcare issues, you probably don't understand that it is going to be a shock to many Americans. 

[Born To Slay 10,996]

1 minute ago, Whispering said:

Yes, the taxes would have to go beyond what he proposed, for the services he was saying would be available. 

It would be way more than a long debate. It would be just the beginning. It would take decades to work through and adjust taxes and expectations. 

People would have to adjust to this reality: 

"Some types of surgeries and specialists do have backlogs and sometimes you have to wait a few weeks. In some cases months for surgeries. It depends what it is. My dad had a small hernia for example and he had to wait 10 weeks to do surgery because there was nothing life threatning about it and other patients had more serious needs."

Most people in the US do not have to wait months for surgeries, even if they are non-emergency. We have more technology, doctors and specialists per person than Canada. Insurance plans offer mental health care and addiction treatment, not just a Psychiatrist visit. People on employee based systems and Medicare currently would be unhappy with the waits and lack of certain services and benefits. 

The money has to come from taxes, the federal budget or state budgets and will include an adjustment of what Americans are used to. Americans are spoiled in many ways, including healthcare and the services that surround it. Unless you have lived a couple of decades under both systems, with some healthcare issues, you probably don't understand that it is going to be a shock to many Americans. 

This video explains that the wait times are actually Canada's choice and that they don't have to do that. It's explained why at 6 minutes in. If America do things differently, we wouldn't have long wait times.

 

[Morphine Prince 109,655]

6 hours ago, Himeros26 said:

Quick question because I'm ignorant

why do people hate obamacare? because of obamacare i'm paying $17 for my healthcare and i get free doctor visits and drugs are less than $5 for me....?

Because some in the middle class are paying higher premiums for their coverage. 

Obamacare is great for low income people but the middle class, especially upper middle class feel like they are paying too much.

[Buddy 5,686]

I would actually rather have Pence as president. At least he has diplomacy. We wouldn't have to worry about WW3 being started from a tweet. In my opinion, Mike Pence wouldn't touch gay marriage and would try to avoid gay issues in general.  The worst that could happen is us getting denied a wedding cake, tbh, which I could literally care less about. Why would I want to give someone who doesn't support me my money?  

The only thing I'd be concerned out is Planned Parenthood. Girls would need to start using birth control AND a condom, just in case. And religious people would probably get extra annoying, but it's ok because I don't associate myself with people who have that low of a mental capacity anyway. 

[Whispering 18,865]

Just now, Born To Slay said:

This video explains that the wait times are actually Canada's choice and that they don't have to do that. It's explained why at 6 minutes in. If America do things differently, we wouldn't have long wait times.

 

Wait times for certain surgeries are longer due to less specialists and technology per person. If funds are scaled back and healthcare workers are paid less, we will see longer wait times. You can dig up a thousand videos, but that is the reality. More people needing more services with less access means longer waits for certain services. Biopsies for Breast cancer are a big issue. People are going to be PISSED when they have to wait for these services, of when their wives and mothers have to wait. No one "chooses" to wait longer for such services. 

We still have to come up with double the budget to get to Canada's level of service, not Bernie's with vision and dental. Plus, prescription drugs, mental health, addiction care...

[MJHolland 12,725]

I have knowledge that republicans themselves are already organizing an impeachment effort if the Russian scandal developed farther. 

So no, it won't hurt dems when Republicans lead the charge. 

[MJHolland 12,725]

5 minutes ago, Whispering said:

Wait times for certain surgeries are longer due to less specialists and technology per person. If funds are scaled back and healthcare workers are paid less, we will see longer wait times. You can dig up a thousand videos, but that is the reality. More people needing more services with less access means longer waits for certain services. Biopsies for Breast cancer are a big issue. People are going to be PISSED when they have to wait for these services, of when their wives and mothers have to wait. No one "chooses" to wait longer for such services. 

We still have to come up with double the budget to get to Canada's level of service, not Bernie's with vision and dental. Plus, prescription drugs, mental health, addiction care...

Yes yes and yes to this post 

[Whispering 18,865]

9 minutes ago, Buddy said:

The only thing I'd be concerned out is Planned Parenthood. Girls would need to start using birth control AND a condom, just in case. 

97 per cent of Planned Parenthood services go to services outside of abortion. "Girls" (and "boys" by the way) would be deprived cancer screenings, testing and treatment for STDs, and birth control. 

[Economy 52,844]

38 minutes ago, Whispering said:

Wait times for certain surgeries are longer due to less specialists and technology per person. If funds are scaled back and healthcare workers are paid less, we will see longer wait times. You can dig up a thousand videos, but that is the reality. More people needing more services with less access means longer waits for certain services. Biopsies for Breast cancer are a big issue. People are going to be PISSED when they have to wait for these services, of when their wives and mothers have to wait. No one "chooses" to wait longer for such services. 

We still have to come up with double the budget to get to Canada's level of service, not Bernie's with vision and dental. Plus, prescription drugs, mental health, addiction care...

Depends on what u value

 

our wait times are only for minir things that dont pose a risk to your life in anyway like my dads hernia he had to wait 10 weeks for

 

i prefer never having to worry about costs even if it means non priority things have some wait time. I think its a price worth paying

 

A hernia or cataracts is but an inconvinence. If i have to wait an extra month than i would in the US to not have to have high premiums or worry about coverage why not?

 

As for anything serious, it always gets dealt with quickly and promptly

 

Also we do NOT have high taxes to pay for it. It may surprise you to know that most major taxes are actually lower in Canada than in the US. Its not the 1980s anymore despite the reputation that still remains on our taxes. Also weve kept our debt the lowest in G7 despite this.

 

Before the 2008 great recession we ran large budget surpluses while laying for this healthcare

 

Im just saying, if organized properly, a Public Health system doesnt have to be as expensive.

 

Im more right winged than most on GGD yet I support our system. I like it!

[Economy 52,844]

1 hour ago, Woolfsmck said:

Bernie Sanders wants to tax us to death so we can have free health care....8-/

Free healthcare to work without costing a fortune requires enourmous organization, efficiency and co-operation in Government to set it up

 

The US is too divided atm to make it work. It would end up costing way more than the US could realistically afford

[Gaga Monster 13,001]

7 hours ago, Himeros26 said:

Quick question because I'm ignorant

why do people hate obamacare? because of obamacare i'm paying $17 for my healthcare and i get free doctor visits and drugs are less than $5 for me....?

Premiums are through the roof. People who used to pay a few hundred a month are now paying up to $700-$1100. In some states premiums increased 40-60%. It is a disaster, if you don't want it you are charged a fee and penalized. We need something knew. Doctors also don't like it either. There is no freedom of choice like Obama promised and it is not affordable as Obama promised.

Obama: “If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor.”

Obamacare upended the healthcare market, and unsurprisingly its narrow provider networks have prevented millions of American families from being able to see the doctor they know and trust.

Despite his previous claims, President Obama admitted in an interview that his law has indeed caused this disruption for millions of Americans.