Solange blasts Grammys after Beyonce lost AOTY

[Ricardo 7,900]

13 minutes ago, SlayedForTheGod said:

and yet no "album of the year" even though she has had six number one critically albums. 

neither has Gaga, 2 nominations out of 2 critically acclaimed albums, both lost

Beyoncé's been nominated for AOTY 3 times, three times lost

Madonna has been nominated once for AOTY is it fair? No, I'm pretty sure Madonna had several albums worth of a AOTY nomination and winning also 

so no, Solange can take a sit and get over the fact her sister lost, this has NOTHING to do about race

 

[StrawberryBlond 14,924]

Solange is using Beyonce far too much for her own publicity these days. She's obviously stung that she's in her sister's shadow and is willing to be controversial to get people talking about her to remind everyone that she makes music too. It's all getting a bit embarrassing. I can easily counter some of her statements, which I'll go into below:

IF YOU WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT THE AMAZING SUPPORT BLACK ARTISTS GET AT THE GRAMMYS BUT CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO DO RESEARCH, CHECK OUT THIS SPOILERED LISTS OF STATS I HAVE COMPILED:

Black artist representation at the Grammys
 

Spoiler

 

- Quincy Jones is the most awarded man in Grammy history and is the second most awarded person in Grammy history.

- Beyonce, is the second most awarded woman in Grammy history and is the joint seventh most awarded person in Grammy history.

- Out of the 19 women in the list of Most Grammys Won By A Female category, 10 of them are black women, with the #2, #3 and joint #4 spots held by Beyonce, Aretha Franklin and Alicia Keys.

- Out of the 18 most honoured albums in Grammy history, 6 of them are by black artists with two of them (Ray Charles's Genius Loves Company and Michael Jackson's Thriller occupying the joint #2 spot with 8 awards respectively.

- Stevie Wonder is a member of the prestigious Album Of The Year Club, where all its members hold the joint record of three Album Of The Year wins.

- Aretha Franklin holds the record for winning the most consecutive Grammys in the same category - an 8 year winning streak from 1968-1975. She also had some non-conseutive wins in the category. Bill Cosby also holds the #2 spot for this record.

- Michael Jackson holds the record for the most Grammys won in one night, with 8. Quincy Jones and Beyonce are also in joint second place with 6 each.

- Beyonce holds the record for the most Grammys won by a female in one night, with 6 awarded in 2010. Lauryn Hill, Alicia Keys are in joint second place, along with Beyonce's previous record from 2004 (a double entry for her).

- Ray Charles holds the record for the most posthumous awards won in one night with 5 wins in 2005, including Album of the Year.

- Quincy Jones is the most nominated person in Grammy history. Kanye West, Jay Z and Beyonce also occupy the joint #3 and #4 spots.

- Michael Jackson holds the record for the most Grammy nominations in one night, with 12. Kendrick Lamar, Lauryn Hill, Kanye West, Beyonce and Jay Z also hold the #2 and joint #3 and #4 spots, along with Beyonce's new record from 2017 (another double entry for her).

- Michael and Janet Jackson are tied at fourth place for the most nominations in the most categories.

- Tracy Chapman and India Arie are members of the prestigious Grammy General Field club, where all its members have had the honour of being nominated in all 4 general field categories in the same night. The half black Mariah Carey is also in the club.

- Deleon Richards is in second place for the youngest Grammy nominee (8 years old). Michael Jackson and each respective member of Kriss Kross also occupy the #6, #9 and #11 places (12 and 14, respectively) and I don't know the race of every other person on the list.

- Whoopi Goldberg is part of the prestigious EGOT Club, where all its members have won an Emmy, Grammy, Oscar and Tony award. She completed this feat within just 17 years, which is the joint second fastest time to do so.

And also...

- R. Kelly continued to get Grammy nominations after his sex scandal.

- Rihanna, despite not writing the majority of her music for almost all her career, has 8 Grammy awards, more than a lot of white artists who can write and play. It's worth noting that white Britney, who is famed for being a pop puppet, only has 1 Grammy. Rihanna also has 32 nominations. She also holds the record for the most wins in the Rap/Sung category.

- Nicki Minaj's Anaconda, which was widely mocked by many, was derided by many music fans and has nearly 1.3 million dislikes on YouTube got nominated for a Grammy. It's worth noting that white Miley Cyrus's We Can't Stop and Wrecking Ball which were released around the same time, which have nearly 1.3 million and 1.4 million dislikes respectively, garnered no nominations.

- Fetty Wap's Trap Queen was nominated for 2 Grammys and Baby DRAM's Broccoli was nominated for one this year. I rest my case.

- Chris Brown got to perform twice at the Grammys despite beating up Rihanna and won the award for Best RnB album that night. People thought it was terrible how the Grammys supported a woman beater.

 

So, do you still believe that black artists are treated badly by the academy? Or are you still just seeing what you want to see?

 

22 hours ago, Harry said:

A stupid statement, to be frank. The award is for ALBUM of the year, not ARTIST of the year. It's an irrelevant criticism in this particular instance. If the award was "Best Self-Made Album" then you'd have a point. But it's not. So you don't.

Everyone gets at pop artists for not writing their songs (even though Beyonce is creatively involved) but why not producing? Barely any pop stars produce their records but we don't hold it to the same standard. But it's the other side of the process. Plenty of fantastic artists never wrote their own material that you'd likely praise as some of the greats. There's no consistency.

Well, at the end of the day, the Grammys are supposed to be the summit of musical achievement. They're meant to award the most talented artists out there, the best of the best. Sure, not everyone believes they do their job properly but regardless, this is what they're supposed to do. So, it stands to reason that they should want to award the album that had the biggest involvement from the artist. A fellow GGD member pointed out that if you look back in the show's history, you'll notice that almost all of the AOTY winners are full-blown artists who write and produce their own music. Whether they're your taste or not is irrelevant, what can't be denied is that these winners are truly involved in their work. And the academy wants to awards the talent displayed by artists who push themselves to do it all.

I get at pop artists for not producing their own songs although I sympathise that instrument playing doesn't come naturally to us all, me being on of them. But in a world where changing vocal arrangement of the song and adding in runs and high notes is considered producing, pop artists should really be doing more. And I also think a lot of the supposed greats are overrated whose songwriters couldn't even give them good material sometimes. I mean, I was shocked when I found out that some legends like Tina Turner, Whitney Houston, Celine Dion and Cher never wrote their own stuff, yet they're widely respected unlike the average popstars. Even though some of them have written more than they ever did! I respect these women's vocal abilities but they're just singers, nothing more. And if that's all the do, I'm wary about giving them Grammys. I think they should go to people who write their own material, end of. I think it's odd how songs that get nominated for Best Song From A Movie at the Oscars can only be won by the writers of the song and the performer doesn't get included unless they played a role in the writing...yet you can never write a note and win a Grammy. That's hilarious that the movie institution has higher standards! But shouldn't the musical institution play to the highest standard? If that's not inconsistency, I don't know what is. If I had my way, only writers and producers could win Grammys. If you don't write and/or produce, then, by musical standards, you are not an artist in my opinion.

22 hours ago, Harry said:

To chip in regarding the whole race thing... It's tough. I think people dismissing it so instantly ("boo hoo" being one of the first responses in this thread with several likes, for example) is arguably an example of how it could be a very legitimate point. Instant dismissal - not even a counter-argument. It's disrespectful. Being insulting and dismissive when there is a CLEAR unbalance with the recognition of black artists overall - no this is not just about Beyonce and her 20 or whatever Grammys. Two years in a row we've had two records by black artists widely accepted as the clear front runners, and they've both lost out to albums by white pop singers that had massive commercial success.

I'm sorry but no one in legitimate musical circles would praise 25 as an outstanding or groundbreaking record. You'd be a fool to not recognise her talent as a singer and a songwriter, but the music is not new or exciting. I'd love to talk to anyone that disagrees and find out why they think 25 truly deserved this award. Lemonade is not musically groundbreaking either (though infinitely more diverse and interesting than 25) but the project as a whole is so ambitious that 25 feels like a college project to me. I have friends making more exciting records than 25 in their bedrooms.

Maybe they didn't provide an argument because they're so sick of putting out the same good reasons every time, which no one listens to. I still do it every time and it's exhausting. A quick glance at Grammy records will tell you immediately that being a POC is no barrier to winning. Check out how many black artists are in the "Most Grammys won by a female" category! Note I said "POC" because we should be including all races. It's not just about black artists, what about Asians and Hispanics, why does no one talk about them? That just shows you how black artists have the biggest representation after whites. If they had little/no representation, no one would be talking about them. No one wants to talk about the even bigger lack of Asian and Hispanic winners. But lack of black winners? That's an eye-opener, apparently! In many years, there has been a white artist who was the front runner who lost out to someone not as good (hell, look at Gaga's infuritating 3 losses when she was superior). It doesn't matter if they lost out to another white person. It's not about the race, it's about musical integrity. Maybe you want to see a racial angle but have you ever stopped to consider that there isn't one? Not to be rude, but 2 years in a row is nothing. Maybe we'll talk when its happened 10 years in a row.

I fully agree with your opinions about 25. I think it wasn't as good as 21 and just followed the same old formulas. Pretty much every song was ranked ok apart from about 3 mediocre ones. I ranked it the same as her previous albums - 3 stars out of five. Thing was, Lemonade was ranked the same (and by the way, I think this album came #7 on my list of best albums of 2016, that's how terrible music was last year that a 3 star came that far). Lemonade is a big mixed bag of quality that spans the entire gamut of my star ranking system (awful, not good, mediocre, just under par, okay, above average, very good, excellent). There's a song on there that fufills every one of those criteria. So, it was just as mixed as 25 when it all came down to it. So, I didn't really care who won when it came down to it. I prefer Lemonade between the two. I also think it's her second best album, but I also think 25 is Adele's second best album. It was all pretty equal to me. Maybe the voters thought the same. We don't know how close the vote came. For all we know, Beyonce could have lost by one vote. It doesn't matter to me if an album is ambitious or groundbreaking. It's just a bonus. Similarly, good vocals are just a bonus. The #1 important thing are the songs, the actual music itself. All that other stuff is meaningless to me if the music isn't good enough.

16 hours ago, ItsTommyBitch said:

@ Everyone trying to use "but black people win lots of grammys by numbers!" as an excuse for "this isn't racisme!! asdjfkaslfj" do some research please  The grammys segregate black artist into "Urban" areas and overwhelmingly only recognize black artists in these categories. Which is why its rare for black artists to win what are universally seen as the more prestigious awards such as AOTY   Sometimes even albums that have major cross over appeal are nominated in more "urban" categories over mainstream ones, despite fitting qualifications for both... Sometimes its even in direct conflict with the actual genre of the music on the record. Everything Beyonce releases is Urban, even if its not. Look at the history of R&B nominations for white and black artists. When Black artists make music that is even remotely R&B, its R&B or Urban. If they make pop, its still Urban. If white artists make R&B? It's still Pop most of the time  There's more, and I could go on, but im tired af so I won't for now  

I have done my research. Check out the list I made at the top of the page. The evidence suggests otherwise. Just because you are black doesn't mean you'll be in an urban category. Of course you'll be in the urban category if you really do make urban music. It was understandable that Iggy got nominated in the pop category because a lot of people consider Fancy to be pop (though I don't) and I can see why but if she were more traditional gritty rap, she'd totally be in the urban category. But the likes of Eminem are always in rap categories. Black people have been in pop categories. The likes of Adele probably get listed under pop despite making soul music because there is no soul category, which is odd. And being nominated in the pop category is no guarantee of being nominated for AOTY. Those 2 awards have zero correlation. It can be hard to judge where a song should go when it draws on multiple genres and there is a set criteria it must fufill to be nominated in one genre though I think it's just 50%. Pretty much everything Beyonce releases is urban and she likely continues to be nominated in that category because that's the artist she is first and foremost and you tend to get nominated in the genre you are most associated with. But she was up for best rock song this year, I might add (even though I wouldn't call Don't Hurt Yourself rock).

[Harry 26,836]

34 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Solange is using Beyonce far too much for her own publicity these days. She's obviously stung that she's in her sister's shadow and is willing to be controversial to get people talking about her to remind everyone that she makes music too. It's all getting a bit embarrassing. I can easily counter some of her statements, which I'll go into below:

IF YOU WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT THE AMAZING SUPPORT BLACK ARTISTS GET AT THE GRAMMYS BUT CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO DO RESEARCH, CHECK OUT THIS SPOILERED LISTS OF STATS I HAVE COMPILED:

Black artist representation at the Grammys
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

- Quincy Jones is the most awarded man in Grammy history and is the second most awarded person in Grammy history.

- Beyonce, is the second most awarded woman in Grammy history and is the joint seventh most awarded person in Grammy history.

- Out of the 19 women in the list of Most Grammys Won By A Female category, 10 of them are black women, with the #2, #3 and joint #4 spots held by Beyonce, Aretha Franklin and Alicia Keys.

- Out of the 18 most honoured albums in Grammy history, 6 of them are by black artists with two of them (Ray Charles's Genius Loves Company and Michael Jackson's Thriller occupying the joint #2 spot with 8 awards respectively.

- Stevie Wonder is a member of the prestigious Album Of The Year Club, where all its members hold the joint record of three Album Of The Year wins.

- Aretha Franklin holds the record for winning the most consecutive Grammys in the same category - an 8 year winning streak from 1968-1975. She also had some non-conseutive wins in the category. Bill Cosby also holds the #2 spot for this record.

- Michael Jackson holds the record for the most Grammys won in one night, with 8. Quincy Jones and Beyonce are also in joint second place with 6 each.

- Beyonce holds the record for the most Grammys won by a female in one night, with 6 awarded in 2010. Lauryn Hill, Alicia Keys are in joint second place, along with Beyonce's previous record from 2004 (a double entry for her).

- Ray Charles holds the record for the most posthumous awards won in one night with 5 wins in 2005, including Album of the Year.

- Quincy Jones is the most nominated person in Grammy history. Kanye West, Jay Z and Beyonce also occupy the joint #3 and #4 spots.

- Michael Jackson holds the record for the most Grammy nominations in one night, with 12. Kendrick Lamar, Lauryn Hill, Kanye West, Beyonce and Jay Z also hold the #2 and joint #3 and #4 spots, along with Beyonce's new record from 2017 (another double entry for her).

- Michael and Janet Jackson are tied at fourth place for the most nominations in the most categories.

- Tracy Chapman and India Arie are members of the prestigious Grammy General Field club, where all its members have had the honour of being nominated in all 4 general field categories in the same night. The half black Mariah Carey is also in the club.

- Deleon Richards is in second place for the youngest Grammy nominee (8 years old). Michael Jackson and each respective member of Kriss Kross also occupy the #6, #9 and #11 places (12 and 14, respectively) and I don't know the race of every other person on the list.

- Whoopi Goldberg is part of the prestigious EGOT Club, where all its members have won an Emmy, Grammy, Oscar and Tony award. She completed this feat within just 17 years, which is the joint second fastest time to do so.

And also...

- R. Kelly continued to get Grammy nominations after his sex scandal.

- Rihanna, despite not writing the majority of her music for almost all her career, has 8 Grammy awards, more than a lot of white artists who can write and play. It's worth noting that white Britney, who is famed for being a pop puppet, only has 1 Grammy. Rihanna also has 32 nominations. She also holds the record for the most wins in the Rap/Sung category.

- Nicki Minaj's Anaconda, which was widely mocked by many, was derided by many music fans and has nearly 1.3 million dislikes on YouTube got nominated for a Grammy. It's worth noting that white Miley Cyrus's We Can't Stop and Wrecking Ball which were released around the same time, which have nearly 1.3 million and 1.4 million dislikes respectively, garnered no nominations.

- Fetty Wap's Trap Queen was nominated for 2 Grammys and Baby DRAM's Broccoli was nominated for one this year. I rest my case.

- Chris Brown got to perform twice at the Grammys despite beating up Rihanna and won the award for Best RnB album that night. People thought it was terrible how the Grammys supported a woman beater.

 

So, do you still believe that black artists are treated badly by the academy? Or are you still just seeing what you want to see?

 

Well, at the end of the day, the Grammys are supposed to be the summit of musical achievement. They're meant to award the most talented artists out there, the best of the best. Sure, not everyone believes they do their job properly but regardless, this is what they're supposed to do. So, it stands to reason that they should want to award the album that had the biggest involvement from the artist. A fellow GGD member pointed out that if you look back in the show's history, you'll notice that almost all of the AOTY winners are full-blown artists who write and produce their own music. Whether they're your taste or not is irrelevant, what can't be denied is that these winners are truly involved in their work. And the academy wants to awards the talent displayed by artists who push themselves to do it all.

I get at pop artists for not producing their own songs although I sympathise that instrument playing doesn't come naturally to us all, me being on of them. But in a world where changing vocal arrangement of the song and adding in runs and high notes is considered producing, pop artists should really be doing more. And I also think a lot of the supposed greats are overrated whose songwriters couldn't even give them good material sometimes. I mean, I was shocked when I found out that some legends like Tina Turner, Whitney Houston, Celine Dion and Cher never wrote their own stuff, yet they're widely respected unlike the average popstars. Even though some of them have written more than they ever did! I respect these women's vocal abilities but they're just singers, nothing more. And if that's all the do, I'm wary about giving them Grammys. I think they should go to people who write their own material, end of. I think it's odd how songs that get nominated for Best Song From A Movie at the Oscars can only be won by the writers of the song and the performer doesn't get included unless they played a role in the writing...yet you can never write a note and win a Grammy. That's hilarious that the movie institution has higher standards! But shouldn't the musical institution play to the highest standard? If that's not inconsistency, I don't know what is. If I had my way, only writers and producers could win Grammys. If you don't write and/or produce, then, by musical standards, you are not an artist in my opinion.

Maybe they didn't provide an argument because they're so sick of putting out the same good reasons every time, which no one listens to. I still do it every time and it's exhausting. A quick glance at Grammy records will tell you immediately that being a POC is no barrier to winning. Check out how many black artists are in the "Most Grammys won by a female" category! Note I said "POC" because we should be including all races. It's not just about black artists, what about Asians and Hispanics, why does no one talk about them? That just shows you how black artists have the biggest representation after whites. If they had little/no representation, no one would be talking about them. No one wants to talk about the even bigger lack of Asian and Hispanic winners. But lack of black winners? That's an eye-opener, apparently! In many years, there has been a white artist who was the front runner who lost out to someone not as good (hell, look at Gaga's infuritating 3 losses when she was superior). It doesn't matter if they lost out to another white person. It's not about the race, it's about musical integrity. Maybe you want to see a racial angle but have you ever stopped to consider that there isn't one? Not to be rude, but 2 years in a row is nothing. Maybe we'll talk when its happened 10 years in a row.

I fully agree with your opinions about 25. I think it wasn't as good as 21 and just followed the same old formulas. Pretty much every song was ranked ok apart from about 3 mediocre ones. I ranked it the same as her previous albums - 3 stars out of five. Thing was, Lemonade was ranked the same (and by the way, I think this album came #7 on my list of best albums of 2016, that's how terrible music was last year that a 3 star came that far). Lemonade is a big mixed bag of quality that spans the entire gamut of my star ranking system (awful, not good, mediocre, just under par, okay, above average, very good, excellent). There's a song on there that fufills every one of those criteria. So, it was just as mixed as 25 when it all came down to it. So, I didn't really care who won when it came down to it. I prefer Lemonade between the two. I also think it's her second best album, but I also think 25 is Adele's second best album. It was all pretty equal to me. Maybe the voters thought the same. We don't know how close the vote came. For all we know, Beyonce could have lost by one vote. It doesn't matter to me if an album is ambitious or groundbreaking. It's just a bonus. Similarly, good vocals are just a bonus. The #1 important thing are the songs, the actual music itself. All that other stuff is meaningless to me if the music isn't good enough.

I have done my research. Check out the list I made at the top of the page. The evidence suggests otherwise. Just because you are black doesn't mean you'll be in an urban category. Of course you'll be in the urban category if you really do make urban music. It was understandable that Iggy got nominated in the pop category because a lot of people consider Fancy to be pop (though I don't) and I can see why but if she were more traditional gritty rap, she'd totally be in the urban category. But the likes of Eminem are always in rap categories. Black people have been in pop categories. The likes of Adele probably get listed under pop despite making soul music because there is no soul category, which is odd. And being nominated in the pop category is no guarantee of being nominated for AOTY. Those 2 awards have zero correlation. It can be hard to judge where a song should go when it draws on multiple genres and there is a set criteria it must fufill to be nominated in one genre though I think it's just 50%. Pretty much everything Beyonce releases is urban and she likely continues to be nominated in that category because that's the artist she is first and foremost and you tend to get nominated in the genre you are most associated with. But she was up for best rock song this year, I might add (even though I wouldn't call Don't Hurt Yourself rock).

you have a racist track record so I won't be entertaining your nonsense in the race conversation

FYI in certain categories that are applicable, only writers/producers do receive the awards. hence some of the categories are "performance" specific. do your reading before you make ignorant posts. for example song & record of the year are not awarded to the performer. i also find it funny that someone as uneducated and inexperienced in music as you feels that they are allowed to dictate who is an artist, as if singing isn't one of the most expressive and creative activities that a person could partake in. actually it's borderline offensive that you lack respect for singers in this way. but - once again - i am not surprised, coming from you. the grammys, though they CLEARLY have their flaws, recognise all aspects of music and recording - producing, writing, arranging, playing instruments, engineering, mixing, mastering, spoken word and yes, singing - unlike you who seems to believe that only two of those elements are worthy of recognition. if you want to see solely songwriting awards, go look at the ivor novellos. the grammys are not that and they never have been.

you don't know what the hell you're talking about so why do you think I should listen to you for any other reason than comedic purposes when you have the nerve to bring up "musical integrity" and downplay genuinely fantastic artists that have been in the game for years? give me a break.

[GagaStefi 1,231]

I honestly think it would've been either Lemonade or 25. We all know Beyoncé is gonna get it in the near future so she needs to relax.

 

I honestly don't know why people thing she's entitled to ever award she's nominated for.

[SlayedForTheGod 665]

19 hours ago, Ricardo said:

neither has Gaga, 2 nominations out of 2 critically acclaimed albums, both lost

Beyoncé's been nominated for AOTY 3 times, three times lost

Madonna has been nominated once for AOTY is it fair? No, I'm pretty sure Madonna had several albums worth of a AOTY nomination and winning also 

so no, Solange can take a sit and get over the fact her sister lost, this has NOTHING to do about race

 

yeah well we'll agree to disagree. a mediocre album from a white girl won over an amazing piece of art by a great black woman.

[Baduizm 551]

On February 16, 2017 at 7:09 AM, Gov Hooka said:

This. Where was she when Erykah Badu didn't win AOTY for her albums 

PREACH !

[South Blonde 6,237]

On 16/2/2017 at 6:59 PM, SlayedForTheGod said:

and theres lemonade. an album that meant so much to so many people. you never get to hear black women talk about this stuff and shove it in the faces of white middle america. It is an album that was released in such a crucial time for colored america. it pains me to see how people dont understand how it deserved this award.

When did Beyonce talk about this stuff? Not a single interview, or a statement, or even a freaking tweet.

Just because Bey suddendly realised that she's black, it doesn't mean that she cares about the black community. She just uses her "race card" to be controversial, the same way she does with her marriage. One day she is happily married, the next day she talks about Becky; one day she pretends to be white, the other day she honors her skin color.

The Grammy Academy should definitely reward artistic authenticity and integrity, which is clearly something that Beyonce lacks. 

Plus, this is alleged (but not that much), she buys her writing credits. It's been discussed so many times it must be true. And a 1-mile-long list of cowriters doesn't really help her credibility and respectability as an artist. If you just give your image and voice to a body of work you're a model or a singer, not an artist. Y'all can hate Santana all you want, but he's right.

That's why the Academy Awards and Emmy Awards committees reward songwriters and sometimes producers, that's what really matters.

[StrawberryBlond 14,924]

17 hours ago, Harry said:

you have a racist track record so I won't be entertaining your nonsense in the race conversation

FYI in certain categories that are applicable, only writers/producers do receive the awards. hence some of the categories are "performance" specific. do your reading before you make ignorant posts. for example song & record of the year are not awarded to the performer. i also find it funny that someone as uneducated and inexperienced in music as you feels that they are allowed to dictate who is an artist, as if singing isn't one of the most expressive and creative activities that a person could partake in. actually it's borderline offensive that you lack respect for singers in this way. but - once again - i am not surprised, coming from you. the grammys, though they CLEARLY have their flaws, recognise all aspects of music and recording - producing, writing, arranging, playing instruments, engineering, mixing, mastering, spoken word and yes, singing - unlike you who seems to believe that only two of those elements are worthy of recognition. if you want to see solely songwriting awards, go look at the ivor novellos. the grammys are not that and they never have been.

you don't know what the hell you're talking about so why do you think I should listen to you for any other reason than comedic purposes when you have the nerve to bring up "musical integrity" and downplay genuinely fantastic artists that have been in the game for years? give me a break.

I do not have "a racist track record." You really need to stop dragging my name through the mud. I was never called a racist in my life until you came along, seeing what you want to see and not what's actually there. So, to see people actually liking what you have to say is really maddening and disheartening. Stop smearing my name with incorrect accusations. Honestly, whenever I try to get along with you, you put me down. Whenever I criticise you, you hate it even more. I don't know what I'm supposed to do. Just give me a break. I never attacked you, you just came along one day, attacking me and you've never looked back. You're determined to make me look bad in front of others. For someone who was once bullied, you've sure turned into one yourself.

Yes, I know that there are certain categories where only the writers and producers play a role. But most of them are awarded to the performer as well, regardless of their role. I know song and record aren't awarded to the singer if they haven't played a part but they can win it in other categories. My post was not ignorant, you knew perfectly well what I was referring to when I said what I did. I'm not having you making me look stupid in front of people. I may not be "educated" in music but I am trying hard to educate myself wherever possible. I like to sing myself. I wanted to be a singer. But because I do not compose music in any way, I don't think of myself as an artist. I just look at things in a down-to-earth way. Artists create. Singers just sing stuff that artists create for them. Yes, singing's an art form but doing it doesn't make you an artist. I have no problem with singers winning awards for their singing ability but if all they do is sing, that's all they should be nominated for. The awards for the music they put out should be given purely to the real creators. And of course I support the awarding of every other form of music creating like mixing and engineering too, I never said I didn't.

Why do I not know what I'm talking about? Did you not see the list of factual statistics that I displayed in the spoiler? I've done my research and looked at it in a completely non-biased way, which is more than I can say for you. That's why you should listen to me. I don't see what I want to see. I look at the facts and use that to form my conclusion, I don't interpret them in my own way to fit my agenda. If there's any discrimination going on in the Grammys, it's the discrimination of non-Americans. The Grammys are widely considered an American thing by many for a reason. The list of international winners are rare. Even though the UK has produced artists who are considered among some of the all-time greats, they have always struggled to get so much as nominations, with very few exceptions. And even then, the UK still has the best representation. Everyone else barely gets a look in. As a Bjork fan, you should know that. The critics love her work, yet she's yet to win a Grammy. What's that about? And as I said before, no one wants to talk about a lack of Asian and Hispanic winners. They just want to talk about blacks, which really shows that they must have representation or no one would be talking about them. There's still oppression within oppression and out of all the minority groups, blacks have the best representation in music, that cannot be denied. They also have crazy respect in the music industry for inventing genres and being the best at certain genres, that also cannot be denied. And black artists are some of the most awarded artists in Grammy history, that also cannot be denied. So, what part of this is me not understanding things?

BTW, @ItsTommyBitch I thought we were getting along better than for you to like posts that were attacking me.

35 minutes ago, SlayedForTheGod said:

yeah well we'll agree to disagree. a mediocre album from a white girl won over an amazing piece of art by a great black woman.

And mediocre albums from white people win over amazing pieces of art from other white people all the time. I mean, when everyone in the category is white, how do they still get it wrong, if indeed, they are fuelled by nothing but racism? Maybe they just don't know talent or many members are so old (membership is for life) that they opt for tradition over contemporary (commonly cited as the reason for why amazing young talent frequently loses out to old favourites)? As I said above, the biggest Grammy discrimination is against non-American artists. But nobody talks about it because it's so normalised.

Could I just ask, is racism the reason behind why every single black person has ever lost any award, ever? Is there never any other reason? If this is the case, do you think black artists are always the most talented in any given situation? Do you think they are entitled to their awards? If so, how is this any different from a racist white person saying the same thing in favour of whites? Just for once, can we judge based on the music and forget about the race involved?

[Ricardo 7,900]

5 hours ago, SlayedForTheGod said:

yeah well we'll agree to disagree. a mediocre album from a white girl won over an amazing piece of art by a great black woman.

yeah, that's according to your own personal opinion and don't tell me everyone is mad at Bey losing because there are as many happy that Adele won, so no bye

[Harry 26,836]

4 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I do not have "a racist track record." You really need to stop dragging my name through the mud. I was never called a racist in my life until you came along, seeing what you want to see and not what's actually there. So, to see people actually liking what you have to say is really maddening and disheartening. Stop smearing my name with incorrect accusations. Honestly, whenever I try to get along with you, you put me down. Whenever I criticise you, you hate it even more. I don't know what I'm supposed to do. Just give me a break. I never attacked you, you just came along one day, attacking me and you've never looked back. You're determined to make me look bad in front of others. For someone who was once bullied, you've sure turned into one yourself.

Yes, I know that there are certain categories where only the writers and producers play a role. But most of them are awarded to the performer as well, regardless of their role. I know song and record aren't awarded to the singer if they haven't played a part but they can win it in other categories. My post was not ignorant, you knew perfectly well what I was referring to when I said what I did. I'm not having you making me look stupid in front of people. I may not be "educated" in music but I am trying hard to educate myself wherever possible. I like to sing myself. I wanted to be a singer. But because I do not compose music in any way, I don't think of myself as an artist. I just look at things in a down-to-earth way. Artists create. Singers just sing stuff that artists create for them. Yes, singing's an art form but doing it doesn't make you an artist. I have no problem with singers winning awards for their singing ability but if all they do is sing, that's all they should be nominated for. The awards for the music they put out should be given purely to the real creators. And of course I support the awarding of every other form of music creating like mixing and engineering too, I never said I didn't.

Why do I not know what I'm talking about? Did you not see the list of factual statistics that I displayed in the spoiler? I've done my research and looked at it in a completely non-biased way, which is more than I can say for you. That's why you should listen to me. I don't see what I want to see. I look at the facts and use that to form my conclusion, I don't interpret them in my own way to fit my agenda. If there's any discrimination going on in the Grammys, it's the discrimination of non-Americans. The Grammys are widely considered an American thing by many for a reason. The list of international winners are rare. Even though the UK has produced artists who are considered among some of the all-time greats, they have always struggled to get so much as nominations, with very few exceptions. And even then, the UK still has the best representation. Everyone else barely gets a look in. As a Bjork fan, you should know that. The critics love her work, yet she's yet to win a Grammy. What's that about? And as I said before, no one wants to talk about a lack of Asian and Hispanic winners. They just want to talk about blacks, which really shows that they must have representation or no one would be talking about them. There's still oppression within oppression and out of all the minority groups, blacks have the best representation in music, that cannot be denied. They also have crazy respect in the music industry for inventing genres and being the best at certain genres, that also cannot be denied. And black artists are some of the most awarded artists in Grammy history, that also cannot be denied. So, what part of this is me not understanding things?

BTW, @ItsTommyBitch I thought we were getting along better than for you to like posts that were attacking me.

No. I already told you I won't go into the race conversation with you because over several conversations my mind has been more than made up and I won't delve further. You are the one that decided to bring it up by quoting me. You know where I stand with this. I don't want to have this conversation again because it goes around in circles. You literally once said that Beyonce doesn't deserve her success due to the colour of her skin. No matter how much you try to retract that statement, I can't take you seriously with discussions over race - particularly concerning her.

"Yes, singing's an art form but doing it doesn't make you an artist." - what... in the hell? Do you hear what you say? So you agree that the act of singing is creating art but you don't agree that it makes you an artist? By definition that doesn't make sense. Transparent fools like you think the term "artist" is equivalent to genius or something. It's not. It's just a term. Stop being so holier than thou. You can be an "artist" and be a **** artist. You don't know what you're talking about and you don't get to come in and rewrite the script for people that have worked at their ART FORM for their entire lives. I'd love to watch you go to an opera house and tell a singer there that they aren't an artist simply because they are singing the words written by someone else. You'd be recognised for your ignorance and disrespect and laughed out of there.

I know that you hate black people and love to divert the conversation away from them but if you look at one of my earlier posts in this thread I did actually say it was a non-white thing. As @ItsTommyBitch pointed out, the black artists that receive so many awards most take them from the """"black"""" categories, and that's the main problem.

And once again, if you actually read my damn posts - which history shows that you're damn near incapable of doing - you'd know that I'm sceptical of making the whole Grammys thing totally a race issue. It's littered with flaws all over - it's a total sham. I do think it's totally run by whites and the winners do clearly display that, but there's no point having a rational conversation about that with someone like you.

[Harry 26,836]

6 hours ago, South Blonde said:

When did Beyonce talk about this stuff? Not a single interview, or a statement, or even a freaking tweet.

Just because Bey suddendly realised that she's black, it doesn't mean that she cares about the black community. She just uses her "race card" to be controversial, the same way she does with her marriage. One day she is happily married, the next day she talks about Becky; one day she pretends to be white, the other day she honors her skin color.

The Grammy Academy should definitely reward artistic authenticity and integrity, which is clearly something that Beyonce lacks. 

Plus, this is alleged (but not that much), she buys her writing credits. It's been discussed so many times it must be true. And a 1-mile-long list of cowriters doesn't really help her credibility and respectability as an artist. If you just give your image and voice to a body of work you're a model or a singer, not an artist. Y'all can hate Santana all you want, but he's right.

That's why the Academy Awards and Emmy Awards committees reward songwriters and sometimes producers, that's what really matters.

Right. Because the only way an artist can be authentic is if they tweet about it or pull it out of their ass in an interview.

Who cares if Beyonce's music and imagery only just started to be so black-centric? She's lost either way. Either she's pulling "the race card", or she's just another boring pop artist that has nothing to say. What do you want? We have our pop stars making major statements and we slam them?

Did Gaga suddenly exploit the black community with Angel Down because she wasn't making Black Lives Matter songs on The Fame?

You guys will really go out of your way to talk total and utter bullshit just to talk down a popstar.

[SlayedForTheGod 665]

8 hours ago, South Blonde said:

When did Beyonce talk about this stuff? Not a single interview, or a statement, or even a freaking tweet.

Just because Bey suddendly realised that she's black, it doesn't mean that she cares about the black community. She just uses her "race card" to be controversial, the same way she does with her marriage. One day she is happily married, the next day she talks about Becky; one day she pretends to be white, the other day she honors her skin color.

The Grammy Academy should definitely reward artistic authenticity and integrity, which is clearly something that Beyonce lacks. 

Plus, this is alleged (but not that much), she buys her writing credits. It's been discussed so many times it must be true. And a 1-mile-long list of cowriters doesn't really help her credibility and respectability as an artist. If you just give your image and voice to a body of work you're a model or a singer, not an artist. Y'all can hate Santana all you want, but he's right.

That's why the Academy Awards and Emmy Awards committees reward songwriters and sometimes producers, that's what really matters.

this was all ugly. 

[rezjohnsen 1,548]

Wow she's so mad. I see. Beware for another "Elevator Incident" guys....

[South Blonde 6,237]

6 hours ago, Harry said:

Right. Because the only way an artist can be authentic is if they tweet about it or pull it out of their ass in an interview.

Who cares if Beyonce's music and imagery only just started to be so black-centric? She's lost either way. Either she's pulling "the race card", or she's just another boring pop artist that has nothing to say. What do you want? We have our pop stars making major statements and we slam them?

Did Gaga suddenly exploit the black community with Angel Down because she wasn't making Black Lives Matter songs on The Fame?

You guys will really go out of your way to talk total and utter bullshit just to talk down a popstar.

She's yet to prove that she really cares about what she sings. She doesn't necessarily need to go on tv to make a statement but she has to be pretty outspoken and genuine about the issue, otherwise it's all publicity stunt. That's basically throwing the stone and hiding the hand.

Also, criticising Bey doesn't mean taking down Lemonade's theme and message. The album is brilliantly manufactured and so is she: algid. That's probably the only thing Lemonade and Beyonce have in common.

Plus, even though Gaga is more polarizing, she will always be more authentic than Bey because she is a real songwriter. I don't know if she did it for attention or not, but at least she wrote the lyrics and we know what she thinks. Also, Angel Down is not just about BLM but much more and she didn't make an entire album and aesthetic about it, just one song. 

Lastly, don't generalize just because you don't agree with what I said. I'm not stating facts, I'm sharing my opinion. You can agree or disagree but this all "stop criticising Bey, you're all jelly" attitude is really tiring.

5 hours ago, SlayedForTheGod said:

this was all ugly. 

Not as much as this reply...

[Harry 26,836]

1 hour ago, South Blonde said:

She's yet to prove that she really cares about what she sings. She doesn't necessarily need to go on tv to make a statement but she has to be pretty outspoken and genuine about the issue, otherwise it's all publicity stunt. That's basically throwing the stone and hiding the hand.

Also, criticising Bey doesn't mean taking down Lemonade's theme and message. The album is brilliantly manufactured and so is she: algid. That's probably the only thing Lemonade and Beyonce have in common.

Plus, even though Gaga is more polarizing, she will always be more authentic than Bey because she is a real songwriter. I don't know if she did it for attention or not, but at least she wrote the lyrics and we know what she thinks. Also, Angel Down is not just about BLM but much more and she didn't make an entire album and aesthetic about it, just one song. 

Lastly, don't generalize just because you don't agree with what I said. I'm not stating facts, I'm sharing my opinion. You can agree or disagree but this all "stop criticising Bey, you're all jelly" attitude is really tiring.

Not as much as this reply...

I don't understand how release a project on a scale like Lemonade and going to the Super Bowl of all places and doing that performance is not making a statement?

And my attitude is certainly not "stop criticising Bey, you're all jelly". Talk about generalizing.