Muscletank 410 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Just now, RichAssPiss said: No. Your fist sentence here does not reflect my argument. My argument is not that we should not vote for Trump because we do not know what he will be like. My argument is that we should not vote for Trump because we rationally can deduce exactly what he will be like. It is just these deductions come largely from his personal and professional life since he has no political past. I did not suggest anyone get a free pass. I just stated that we as voters are asked to measure Clinton's real political past against whatever we know about Trump. In that comparison, Clinton seems far less dangerous to me, and others. Do you think Bernie Sanders would have been a better choice and thus , a better President? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichAssPiss 5,032 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Just now, Muscletank said: Do you think Bernie Sanders would have been a better choice and thus , a better President? I voted for Sanders in the Democratic primary. I am voting for Clinton in the general election. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muscletank 410 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 1 minute ago, RichAssPiss said: I voted for Sanders in the Democratic primary. I am voting for Clinton in the general election. Would you vote for a 3rd party candidate if there was a more realistic chance of them being successful? Like Jill Stein for example? Is your Hillary vote more tactical? Just playing Devils advocate here btw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichAssPiss 5,032 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Just now, Muscletank said: Would you vote for a 3rd party candidate if there was a more realistic chance of them being successful? Like Jill Stein for example? Is your Hillary vote more tactical? Just playing Devils advocate here btw. I would vote for a third party candidate if they were my ideal candidate, but Stein is far from ideal to me. And yes, my vote for Clinton is pragmatism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muscletank 410 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 1 minute ago, RichAssPiss said: I would vote for a third party candidate if they were my ideal candidate, but Stein is far from ideal to me. And yes, my vote for Clinton is pragmatism. Fair enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvanas 5,768 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 38 minutes ago, Muscletank said: So you don't care that her policies in the past have actually been PROVEN to kill gay people..... My source is quite literally the GOP Party Platform. Page 37, if you're interested. https://www.gop.com/the-2016-republican-party-platform/ Spoiler Here's some articles if the implications aren't quite clear to you. http://www.hrc.org/blog/republican-national-convention-2016-platform-takes-harsh-stance-against-lgb http://time.com/4401600/gop-platform-contemplates-anti-****-provision-embrace-of-conversion-therapy/ I'm sorry if I attacked you but I hold literally no respect for anyone who would vote for Trump over Hillary Clinton. Not saying you are voting for Trump, btw, just making my case clear. Also, if I may... "you only care what you can get out of it for yourself in the future?" ... is this not the point of voting? To elect someone to represent your interests? Not sure what you're trying to suggest there. As a gay man, I feel as though my assessment of gay issues this election is valid. And trust me, gay rights are not the only reason why I am voting for Clinton. Trump's presidency would be harmful to all minorities. I don't need to prove to you how he would harm PoC. He's calling for the repeal of Roe V. Wade, the de-funding of Planned Parenthood (which will kill women). He's attacking women's rights just as much as he is attacking gay rights. Not to mention he plans to protect the second amendment, something I disagree with. There's also the fact that his economical plan would add to the national debt and lose jobs. He thinks coal is clean energy. That climate change is a myth. There is not one issue that I agree with him on. "Who are we, if not slaves to this torment?" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whispering 18,865 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 1 hour ago, Muscletank said: Pity Obama can't run for a third term... Hillary and Obama came out for gay marriage around the same time. Before that, saying you were for gay marriage was a sure way to end a political career. Obama was guilty of the exact same thing that Hillary is, which was a passive verbal-only opposition...until the time they could fully come out and support gay marriage. Why would you want Obama for a third term, if he said the same thing and took the same stance as Hillary? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muscletank 410 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 35 minutes ago, Sylvanas said: My source is quite literally the GOP Party Platform. Page 37, if you're interested. https://www.gop.com/the-2016-republican-party-platform/ Reveal hidden contents Here's some articles if the implications aren't quite clear to you. http://www.hrc.org/blog/republican-national-convention-2016-platform-takes-harsh-stance-against-lgb http://time.com/4401600/gop-platform-contemplates-anti-****-provision-embrace-of-conversion-therapy/ I'm sorry if I attacked you but I hold literally no respect for anyone who would vote for Trump over Hillary Clinton. Not saying you are voting for Trump, btw, just making my case clear. Also, if I may... "you only care what you can get out of it for yourself in the future?" ... is this not the point of voting? To elect someone to represent your interests? Not sure what you're trying to suggest there. As a gay man, I feel as though my assessment of gay issues this election is valid. And trust me, gay rights are not the only reason why I am voting for Clinton. Trump's presidency would be harmful to all minorities. I don't need to prove to you how he would harm PoC. He's calling for the repeal of Roe V. Wade, the de-funding of Planned Parenthood (which will kill women). He's attacking women's rights just as much as he is attacking gay rights. Not to mention he plans to protect the second amendment, something I disagree with. There's also the fact that his economical plan would add to the national debt and lose jobs. He thinks coal is clean energy. That climate change is a myth. There is not one issue that I agree with him on. But you were originally talking about Conversion therapy. There is literally nothing there about gay conversion therapy or anything citing Trump's support of this. You originally gave a very irrational response based on a completely separate issue. However, I did find this nugget very interesting: "To continue our headway against breast and prostate cancer, diabetes, and other killers, research must consider the needs of formerly neglected demographic groups. We call for expanded support for the stem cell research that now offers the greatest hope for many afflictions — through adult stem cells, umbilical cord blood," Ironically, THAT is very progressive. The point is, you originally said you didn't care what Hillary did 20 years ago, only what she can do now? If we all took that attitude, Charles Manson could be in with a shot at president. The very real fact is that Clinton policies in the past HAVE destroyed gay people's lives. That's utterly indisputable. Fair enough if you want to support her and vote for her over Trump, but at least acknowledge the clear fact , that for 20 years, both Bill and Hillary Clinton were not supportive of LGBT. If you're saying you are not concerned by this; that is your choice, but at least be aware of it and acknowledge it. Hillary has also publically stated she will protect the 2nd amendment. Now you either ignore that or you expect her to not do it, which then makes her statement false. Well the one issue that I DO agree with Trump on is limiting terms for people in the senate. It's ludicrous that the President can only serve 2 terms, yet people in Congress can be there for life. That is why we have so much dead wood and NEVER get anything achieved on both sides. We have people who have been there for 50 years and have no intention of moving with the times, so you never see fast, tangible progression. That is a good policy in my book. I don't always vote out of just what benefits me or what I can get out of it. That is a very myopic and self centered position imo. I will vote on a range of issues. But, I could not in good conscious vote for either Hillary or Trump. I think both are woeful candidates and I would not compromise my own personal integrity voting for either. I wanted Sanders, it didn't happen. But at least I know, I won't have played a part in electing either a Tangerine Buffoon or a hideously corrupt, career politician. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muscletank 410 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 16 minutes ago, Whispering said: Hillary and Obama came out for gay marriage around the same time. Before that, saying you were for gay marriage was a sure way to end a political career. Obama was guilty of the exact same thing that Hillary is, which was a passive verbal-only opposition...until the time they could fully come out and support gay marriage. Why would you want Obama for a third term, if he said the same thing and took the same stance as Hillary? Well I was talking in context. I would undoubtedly prefer him over the two currently running. And as that video shows, he at least repealed the disastrous and deadly Clinton DADT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricAlley 1,737 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 4 hours ago, DeathEater said: The gays that support Trump are the same ones that have hipster beards, crap sense of fashion, won't suck your cock unless you're wearing a condom, won't eat ass, quiet in bed, smell like old people, hate Gaga, wear Fruit of the Loom boxer shorts as underwear, wears boot cut jeans, and go to cheese festivals. I want this tattooed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bliaz 897 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 English isn’t my first language, so please excuse any mistakes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dopega 3,789 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 7 hours ago, DeathEater said: The gays that support Trump are the same ones that have hipster beards, crap sense of fashion, won't suck your cock unless you're wearing a condom, won't eat ass, quiet in bed, smell like old people, hate Gaga, wear Fruit of the Loom boxer shorts as underwear, wears boot cut jeans, and go to cheese festivals. omfg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmm 879 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 8 hours ago, DeathEater said: The gays that support Trump are the same ones that have hipster beards, crap sense of fashion, won't suck your cock unless you're wearing a condom, won't eat ass, quiet in bed, smell like old people, hate Gaga, wear Fruit of the Loom boxer shorts as underwear, wears boot cut jeans, and go to cheese festivals. You mean people who identify as gay and act like normal human beings? yes unlike the other kind of gays that act like.. I dont want to continue because it would be considered homophobic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
En_Sabah_Nur 9,366 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 3 hours ago, Muscletank said: Well I was talking in context. I would undoubtedly prefer him over the two currently running. And as that video shows, he at least repealed the disastrous and deadly Clinton DADT. You do know Bill Clinton ORIGINALLY wanted gays to serve in the military openly, but the military threw a big hissy fit & the Republicans joined them in opposing this back in 1993. It became a big media controversy & Bill Clinton had to relent & come to a compromise called DADT! Little did he know at the time how disastrous it would be later implemented by homophobes in the military, because in his eyes at the time it was a compromise. Which he now says was a mistake. So contrary to your previous statements, the Clinton's HAVE been for gay rights! The only thing that was out right against gay people was DOMA back in 1996, which at the time being for gay marriage was almost a total anathema in society. And there was hardly a widely accepted societal concept(at the time) of this even being a RIGHT to begin with. So check your facts before you essentially go calling the Clinton's homophobes!!! Egypt. W Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meruk Holland 2,358 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 7 hours ago, Muscletank said: I don't always vote out of just what benefits me or what I can get out of it. That is a very myopic and self centered position imo. I will vote on a range of issues. But, I could not in good conscious vote for either Hillary or Trump. I think both are woeful candidates and I would not compromise my own personal integrity voting for either. I wanted Sanders, it didn't happen. But at least I know, I won't have played a part in electing either a Tangerine Buffoon or a hideously corrupt, career politician. 2 Tbh, I think the most corrupt thing about Hillary is that everyone was voting for Bernie, and she won the nomination. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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