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My Need To Say Something About PI


Nicogly

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boonboooon

I dont understand all the negative comments in youtube. I had orgasm when i first listened to it and i think is by far gaga best lead single............

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Nyctophilus

I don't agree with you. PI is very similar to her tribute to David Bowie - too much things happening at the same, short amount of time. It's just all over the place and poorly produced.

DJ, hit the lights
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"It finally grasps the genius that Gaga can be" "Its making people hate it because it doesn't fit their standards of a pop song."

 

I disagree with these quotes to a degree, even though I like Perfect Illusion.

I'll sort of start by admitting I was never a huge fan of Born This Way or Applause as lead singles, I like them it's just that I generally find her later singles and album tracks far more appealing. I feel like Perfect Illusion is the same, I like the song but it's nothing that necessarily blows me away. I expect other songs from the album will. I expect other songs on the album will dive a little deeper.

My problem with the song is that I feel like it still doesn't grasp the genius that Gaga can be and that it's too palatable, mainstream and watered down. For me the problem is that it's too pop, not that it isn't pop enough. It to easily fits the standards of a pop song.
 

 

All you need to do is listen to one Tame Impala record to feel that something interesting is lacking production wise in Perfect Illusion. Kevin Parker was a producer on perfect illusion... Where are his psychedelic, incredible, sweeping sonic landscapes? It feels muted.
 

You listen to daffodils featuring Mark Ronson and Kevin Parker and Perfect Illusion doesn't feel as funky or musically interesting.


I would have loved to see Gaga really take advantage of Ronson and Kevin Parker and play to their strengths as producers. Instead Perfect Illusion, to me, sounds like Ronson and Parker on a leash. It doesn't feel as bold or exciting as it could have been because I think it was sort of watered down a little to be more commercially viable.

I would have prefered to hear full blown psychedelic rock Gaga. I would have loved to have been transported to another dimension. I would have liked to have heard the unique stylings of Parker and Ronson shine a little, with some instrumental breaks, before hearing Gaga layering her voice and singing her heart out.

You say people hate it because it doesn't fit their standards of a pop song, I would say that I fear it doesn't have the bite or the balls to appeal to those who generally dislike pop music either. So she has a lead single that's polarizing to her pop fans for being too risky, while managing to be far too tame for an audience outside of that.

It just feels like, if Gaga wanted to go there, she REALLY should have gone there. She should have completely committed to making this alien sort of psychedelic rock but funky, disco inspired album. Instead it feels like she held back.

What would have been great to hear, and what I think would have grasped Gaga's genius, is a song that went completely unapologetically psychedelic rock without concern for current trends. I actually think that was what was so great about her early on. She came with this electro pop sound that was unpopular in the U.S but it was good music, packaged well and so she blew up. Bad Romance was genius because it was unapologetically melancholy with house, new wave and techno influences. It was so alien yet so good. I don't want Bad Romance 2.0 but what I'm really craving is a super bold Gaga, and it just doesn't feel like she is really totally pushing herself out of her comfort zone.

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Katsuki Bakugo
25 minutes ago, Envi said:

I couldn't care less about the technical aspect of the song, I only ask myself the simple question: Did I enjoy it? I'm inclined to say no. 

 

Then why you hear to post. Just move on.

If All You Ever Do Is Look Down On People, You Won't Be Able To Recognize Your Own Weaknesses.
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Katsuki Bakugo
5 minutes ago, Bebe said:

"It finally grasps the genius that Gaga can be" "Its making people hate it because it doesn't fit their standards of a pop song."

 

I disagree with these quotes to a degree, even though I like Perfect Illusion.

I'll sort of start by admitting I was never a huge fan of Born This Way or Applause as lead singles, I like them it's just that I generally find her later singles and album tracks far more appealing. I feel like Perfect Illusion is the same, I like the song but it's nothing that necessarily blows me away. I expect other songs from the album will. I expect other songs on the album will dive a little deeper.

My problem with the song is that I feel like it still doesn't grasp the genius that Gaga can be and that it's too palatable, mainstream and watered down. For me the problem is that it's too pop, not that it's not pop enough.
 

 

All you need to do is listen to one Tame Impala record to feel that something interesting is lacking production wise in Perfect Illusion. Kevin Parker was a producer on perfect illusion... Where are his psychedelic, incredible, sweeping sonic landscapes? It feels muted.
 

You listen to daffodils featuring Mark Ronson and Kevin Parker and Perfect Illusion doesn't feel as funky or musically interesting.


I would have loved to see Gaga really take advantage of Ronson and Kevin Parker and play to their strengths as producers. Instead Perfect Illusion, to me, sounds like Ronson and Parker on a leash. It doesn't feel as bold or exciting as it could have been because I think it was sort of watered down a little to be more commercially viable.

I would have prefered to hear full blown psychedelic rock Gaga. I would have loved to have been transported to another dimension. I would have liked to have heard the unique stylings of Parker and Ronson shine a little, with some instrumental breaks, before hearing Gaga layering her voice and singing her heart out.

You say people hate it because it doesn't fit their standards of a pop song, I would say that I fear it doesn't have the bite or the balls to appeal to those who generally dislike pop music either. So she has a lead single that's polarizing to her pop fans for being too risky, while managing to be far too tame for an audience outside of that.

What would have been great to hear, and what I think would have grasped Gaga's genius, is a song that went completely unapologetically psychedelic rock without concern for current trends. I actually think that was what was so great about her early on. She came with this electro pop sound that was unpopular in the U.S but it was good music, packaged well and so she blew up. Bad Romance was genius because it was unapologetically melancholy with house, new wave and techno influences. It was so alien yet so good.

Because this is Gaga not Tame Impala.

If All You Ever Do Is Look Down On People, You Won't Be Able To Recognize Your Own Weaknesses.
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1 minute ago, Melisandre said:

Because this is Gaga not Tame Impala.

Yeah I'm very aware of this :shrug:

But you can hear Zedd in G.U.Y you can hear RedOne in Just Dance, you can hear DJWS in Applause. Frankly you can barely hear anything that makes Kevin Parker an interesting producer in this track. Same goes for Ronson.

Why bother getting Kevin Parker to produce your album if you don't want the sort of sweeping, musical landscapes he is known for creating?

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Nicogly
1 hour ago, Pillowman said:

I don't agree with you. PI is very similar to her tribute to David Bowie - too much things happening at the same, short amount of time. It's just all over the place and poorly produced.

Well to each their own. I understand that to some it may sound as "too much", but I guess its a matter of taste! glad to hear your opinion

Rock On and A Last One For the Road 🚬
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Nicogly
55 minutes ago, Bebe said:

 

What would have been great to hear, and what I think would have grasped Gaga's genius, is a song that went completely unapologetically psychedelic rock without concern for current trends. I actually think that was what was so great about her early on. She came with this electro pop sound that was unpopular in the U.S but it was good music, packaged well and so she blew up. Bad Romance was genius because it was unapologetically melancholy with house, new wave and techno influences. It was so alien yet so good. I don't want Bad Romance 2.0 but what I'm really craving is a super bold Gaga, and it just doesn't feel like she is really totally pushing herself out of her comfort zone.

You know? i dont disagree with you AT ALL. i HAD BEEN SAYING FOR AGES THAT i wanted a pure rock song, I mean ****ing classical led zepellin songs, or giving Jack White teas. And yeah of course that she could've done a 6 minute long song with incredible musical breakdowns.

 

My post was hyperbolic because I feel people are just trashing the song, and I kinda wanted to redeem it. I still LOVE the song, but yeah I completely understand and agree with your points!

Rock On and A Last One For the Road 🚬
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Katsuki Bakugo
21 minutes ago, Bebe said:

Yeah I'm very aware of this :shrug:

But you can hear Zedd in G.U.Y you can hear RedOne in Just Dance, you can hear DJWS in Applause. Frankly you can barely hear anything that makes Kevin Parker an interesting producer in this track. Same goes for Ronson.

Why bother getting Kevin Parker to produce your album if you don't want the sort of sweeping, musical landscapes he is known for creating?

He did the guitar though. I don't know what you want me to say to this tbh. This isn't his music. It is hers. Thats my answer, pretty much covers every aspect. 

If All You Ever Do Is Look Down On People, You Won't Be Able To Recognize Your Own Weaknesses.
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12 minutes ago, Nicogly said:

You know? i dont disagree with you AT ALL. i HAD BEEN SAYING FOR AGES THAT i wanted a pure rock song, I mean ****ing classical led zepellin songs, or giving Jack White teas. And yeah of course that she could've done a 6 minute long song with incredible musical breakdowns.

 

My post was hyperbolic because I feel people are just trashing the song, and I kinda wanted to redeem it. I still LOVE the song, but yeah I completely understand and agree with your points!


In fairness too, I do like Perfect Illusion, I think it's cool - I just still want to see her dive deeper you know? 

I sort of expect that will happen more within the album though, especially with collabs with Florence and Beck. It's sort of like how, to me, Born This Way is a cool song but Heavy Metal Lover, Bloody Mary, Government Hooker where like the really cool songs on that record you know?

That's just how I generally feel with Gagas work. Perfect Illusion is a cool song, but it's probably going to be the deeper album cuts where she is really pushing herself with a certain sound that I get the most excited for. Perfect Illusion just doesn't give much room for Parker or Ronson to play around in.

 

5 minutes ago, Melisandre said:

He did the guitar though. I don't know what you want me to say to this tbh. This isn't his music. It is hers. Thats my answer, pretty much covers every aspect. 

I know he did guitar :huh: your answer doesn't really cover anything I've said really.

I'd like to see Gaga push herself in a less commercial way, I don't think Perfect Illusion utilises the talents of her producers to maximum potential and I wish she had just kinda dived in a little deeper into the music and explored more.

You saying "this is Gaga not Tame Impala." or "this isn't his music. It is hers. " doesn't cover any of that, it's just stating what is blatantly obvious.

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Katsuki Bakugo
Just now, Bebe said:


In fairness too, I do like Perfect Illusion, I think it's cool - I just still want to see her dive deeper you know? 

I sort of expect that will happen more within the album though, especially with collabs with Florence and Beck. It's sort of like how, to me, Born This Way is a cool song but Heavy Metal Lover, Bloody Mary, Government Hooker where like the really cool songs on that record you know?

That's just how I generally feel with Gagas work. Perfect Illusion is a cool song, but it's probably going to be the deeper album cuts where she is really pushing herself with a certain sound that I get the most excited for. Perfect Illusion just doesn't give much room for Parker or Ronson to play around in.

 

I know he did guitar :huh: your answer doesn't really cover anything I've said really.

I'd like to see Gaga push herself in a less commercial way, I don't think Perfect Illusion utilises the talents of her producers to maximum potential and I wish she had just kinda dived in a little deeper into the music and explored more.

You saying "this is Gaga not Tame Impala." or "his isn't his music. It is hers. " doesn't cover any of that, it's just stating what is blatantly obvious.

We haven't even seen anything yet though? This is the first single. 

The album has to come. And will see more- this is a taste of what is to come. I can hear more funk in this song from Ronson than I can bloodpop and Kevin, but he is also Executive Producer according to Gaga.

As she has said- just when you think you have her figured out, she will remind you why you haven't. I think its too early to call anything for this era. 

And it does cover alot- its just not the answer your willing to understand, but to be fair I didn't really explain, but I am tired so I will keep it short.... Its a simple way of saying this is Gaga's music not there's and its her direction and her sound. 

Whilst each producer she used in the past represents them, it doesn't represent their work solo - AT ALL. DJWS's solo work sounds nothing like his work on ARTPOP. 

Guy sounds nothing like Zedd's work- Aura isn't even his so not going there. 

Could go on but its past midnight.

happy to discuss, or for your thoughts. But for me this is the first taste. 

If All You Ever Do Is Look Down On People, You Won't Be Able To Recognize Your Own Weaknesses.
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4 minutes ago, Melisandre said:

We haven't even seen anything yet though? This is the first single. 

The album has to come. And will see more- this is a taste of what is to come. I can hear more funk in this song from Ronson than I can bloodpop and Kevin, but he is also Executive Producer according to Gaga.

As she has said- just when you think you have her figured out, she will remind you why you haven't. I think its too early to call anything for this era. 

And it does cover alot- its just not the answer your willing to understand, but to be fair I didn't really explain, but I am tired so I will keep it short.... Its a simple way of saying this is Gaga's music not there's and its her direction and her sound. 

Whilst each producer she used in the past represents them, it doesn't represent their work solo - AT ALL. DJWS's solo work sounds nothing like his work on ARTPOP. 

Guy sounds nothing like Zedd's work- Aura isn't even his so not going there. 

Could go on but its past midnight.

happy to discuss, or for your thoughts. But for me this is the first taste. 

"We haven't even seen anything yet though? This is the first single. 

The album has to come. And will see more- this is a taste of what is to come. I can hear more funk in this song from Ronson than I can bloodpop and Kevin, but he is also Executive Producer according to Gaga."

I know I literally said that :confused: Like I've literally said that I expect she will explore more of that within the album. I'm not calling the entire era, I'm not talking about the entire album, I'm just saying I wish the lead single went a bit deeper. I think it would have been badass for her to come out with a lead single that was less radio focused and more exploratory. 

You're not at all engaging with that I'm saying tbh :shrug: 
 

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Katsuki Bakugo
Just now, Bebe said:

"We haven't even seen anything yet though? This is the first single. 

The album has to come. And will see more- this is a taste of what is to come. I can hear more funk in this song from Ronson than I can bloodpop and Kevin, but he is also Executive Producer according to Gaga."

I know I literally said that :confused: Like I've literally said that I expect she will explore more of that within the album. I'm not calling the entire era, I'm not talking about the entire album, I'm just saying I wish the lead single went a bit deeper. I think it would have been badass for her to come out with a lead single that was less radio focused and more exploratory.

You're not at all engaging with that I'm saying tbh :shrug: 
 

Well I mean technically I am. Just not for what you want. 

This song is barely radio friendly imo.  Clearly by the 50/50 luke warm response to being scalped bald, this is a risk for her. To the GP it sounds rock, but there is funk and pop and punk going on here, dare I say Punk The Funk. 

Look at what is playing atm and for the past year. Majority of "pop" has no chorus besides an instrumentals but nothing else. 

Sure - it was more "safe" but this is her return to solo work. It needs to be somewhat safe, even if its a risk. A safe risk. She is still selling a product and has a contract to fulfil with interscope.

I trust her vision and tbh, for me, this is a risk for her she has never done this sound before. 

If All You Ever Do Is Look Down On People, You Won't Be Able To Recognize Your Own Weaknesses.
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AndyDWUW

The song is good. But I don't like it as much as any of her other lead singles. I guess I'm more EDM oriented than rock :shrug:

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51 minutes ago, Melisandre said:

Well I mean technically I am. Just not for what you want. 

This song is barely radio friendly imo.  Clearly by the 50/50 luke warm response to being scalped bald, this is a risk for her. To the GP it sounds rock, but there is funk and pop and punk going on here, dare I say Punk The Funk. 

Look at what is playing atm and for the past year. Majority of "pop" has no chorus besides an instrumentals but nothing else. 

Sure - it was more "safe" but this is her return to solo work. It needs to be somewhat safe, even if its a risk. A safe risk. She is still selling a product and has a contract to fulfil with interscope.

I trust her vision and tbh, for me, this is a risk for her she has never done this sound before. 

No technically you are not at all :laughga: You are not responding to any point I make, like at all. You have just gone on tangents about other points that are not related.

 

Like I have said, in her past work Gaga as played on the strengths of her producers. You say 

"DJWS's solo work sounds nothing like his work on ARTPOP.  Guy sounds nothing like Zedd's work"

Of course. It's a Gaga record :lolga: But you can clearly identify that G.U.Y is a Zedd song and Applause is a DJWS song. I mean I'm sorry but you'd have to be deaf not to be able to tell who is producing the track because they have a certain sonic trademark. You can hear the trademark in their solo work and their work with Gaga. Same with RedOne. Starships by Nicki is different from the work he did with Gaga but I heard it for the first time and was like "Wait... Is that RedOne?"

What you keep saying is basically "This isn't a Tame Impala record, you can't expect Gaga to sound like Tame Impala" but I'm not expecting Gaga to sound like a Tame Impala record, so when you say that you miss the point. What I am expecting is that Kevin Parker and Ronson will be able to create an imprint in her music that is identifiable with them. In the same way Zedd, DJWS and RedOne are clearly identifiable. That's not something that happened on PI though.

You also say "We haven't even seen anything yet though? This is the first single. The album has to come." as if I am criticising the album. I am not. I haven't done that at all, even once.

Now you are contradicting yourself by saying the single is both risky and safe. You can't have it both ways. You're trying to make the argument that she needed to play it risky/safe with the lead single, but that's irrelevant to what I am talking about too. You're basically saying PI is a song Gaga needed to release right? That it's risky enough but also safe enough? Okay... What does that have to do with what I have written? How is it a response to what I have written?

What I said and what you said can both be true. It can be true that Gaga needed to release a song like PI  as a lead single and it can be true that PI doesn't capture Gaga's genius, isn't as bold musically as Gaga could be and doesn't utilise Ronson and Parker to their full potential.


What I am saying is that Perfect Illusion doesn't play to the strengths of Ronson and Tame Impala as producers. As a big fan of both Ronson and Tame Impala I can barely hear their presence. It's muted. What I'm saying is that it would have been cool to hear a song that better utilized the strengths of Ronson and Parker, which is something Perfect Illusion didn't do. It's an area where PI fails whether it's the sort of single that needed to be released or not. 

My first post was focused on these two quotes from OP "It finally grasps the genius that Gaga can be" "Its making people hate it because it doesn't fit their standards of a pop song."

My post was about how I felt like a song like Perfect Illusion doesn't really grasp her genius and how I would have actually liked the song more if it was more bold.. I think a song where Gaga more readily embraced the strengths of Ronson and Parker and really delved deep into a psychedelic rock, funky sound would have been more enjoyable, which disproves the idea that people don't like it "because it doesn't fit the standards of a pop song". I also think a song like that would be a song that captured Gaga's genius - not a song like perfect illusion. That makes the  claim that PI finally grasps Gaga's genius false.

So it can be true that Gaga needed to release a "safe risk" like Perfect Illusion... That doesn't mean I will suddenly get blown away by the song - no my thoughts will be the same. PI is a cool song, but it would be more interesting to hear more from her (more which I am expecting to hear on the album).

Gaga can also use Parker to his full potential, dive more deeply into the psychedelic rock side of things and still have the result be different from a Tame Impala record.

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