Gunman's father: "It's up to God to punish the homosexuals"

[Didymus 34,380]

1 minute ago, uo111 said:

I'm at jury duty right now of all places (trust me, I feel no moral obligation to be here).

Of course some religious people defend texts/pasages they disagree with. They think if they don't, they're going to hell.  Who defends laws they disagree with outside of dictatorships? If I speak out against a law I feel no fear of repercussion. So why would I or anyone defend such a law. 

People who get tickets don't automatically think there should be no speed limit... 

I meant the other way around actually  How they explain away stuff they don't agree with despite conceptions of hell etc., like how no Christian alive would say they needed to hate their parents to be a true follower of Jesus (which is literally in the New Testament). Or all the dietary rules in Leviticus (well.. only the gay line really counts, the others are just for historical reasons) etc.

And, well, you can speak out against a law (publicly even in this society) but breaking it still means paying the price. I see no substantial difference there with Christian countries in the Middle Ages that had religiously inspired laws. Ok, you couldn't speak out against them in public, but the reality is still the same: you either follow or you face the consequences. So while I don't want to compare democratic societies to dictatorships, the main mechanism of obeying or excommunication is still largely the same.

And in the areas where it actually matters, such as criminal behavior, you're going to tell me that most people follow scientific rationale and attribute criminal behavior to a natural outcome of the combination of genetic factors inherent in the individual's constitution and their stimulation by their social environment? I know many atheists who describe murderers as monsters who deserve to be punished, a completely unscientific statement that, frankly, shouldn't belong in a society that pretends it's enlightened via scientific progress. That's what I was largely going for.

[uo111 5,282]

3 minutes ago, Didymus said:

I meant the other way around actually  How they explain away stuff they don't agree with despite conceptions of hell etc., like how no Christian alive would say they needed to hate their parents to be a true follower of Jesus (which is literally in the New Testament). Or all the dietary rules in Leviticus (well.. only the gay line really counts, the others are just for historical reasons) etc.

And, well, you can speak out against a law (publicly even in this society) but breaking it still means paying the price. I see no substantial difference there with Christian countries in the Middle Ages that had religiously inspired laws. Ok, you couldn't speak out against them in public, but the reality is still the same: you either follow or you face the consequences. So while I don't want to compare democratic societies to dictatorships, the main mechanism of obeying or excommunication is still largely the same.

And in the areas where it actually matters, such as criminal behavior, you're going to tell me that most people follow scientific rationale and attribute criminal behavior to a natural outcome of the combination of genetic factors inherent in the individual's constitution and their stimulation by their social environment? I know many atheists who describe murderers as monsters who deserve to be punished, a completely unscientific statement that, frankly, shouldn't belong in a society that pretends it's enlightened via scientific progress. That's what I was largely going for.

What even are you saying? Governments and religions are the same thing?

[Didymus 34,380]

6 minutes ago, uo111 said:

What even are you saying? Governments and religions are the same thing?

No.. my point is still the same. People living in modern Western societies, thinking they embrace scientific progress and critical thinking shouldn't be too quick to assume they're so much different than the religious people and their societies they mock.

[lego 44,165]

@Morphine Prince  there's more here, idk if you want to add to the OP

 

 

Seddique Mateen criticised security at Pulse nightclub in Florida and said the police had taken too long to end the three-hour siege.

"When there is a club, a social club, why doesn't that social club provide security? The security should have acted better," he told Washington Correspondent Kylie Morris.

Asked if his son should have been killed before he shot dead 49 people, he said: "Yes, because anybody breaks the law, that person intends to kill other people, they should be killed. It doesn't matter who."

Mr Mateen, who is from Afghanistan but lives in the US, added: "Why did the police take so much time? They should have come quick, they should have used gas to just knock him out and get hold of him. This was something that crossed my mind, that it could have been prevented much better."

Off-duty police officer Adam Gruler exchanged fire with Omar Mateen outside Pulse as the killing spree was beginning, but was forced to call for back-up, sparking the siege.

Act of terror

Seddique Mateen said he accepted his son had been responsible for the deaths and would never forgive him. "I know my son did an act of terror to kill people and I'll never forgive him. He was 100 per cent wrong.

"I'm very sad and upset and mad about those people that lost their loved ones, the 50 people and also those 52 who got injured. They are my family because this act happened in the United States and we consider each oher like a family, a close family. I was really shocked why Omar did what he did."

Mr Mateen said he had not known Omar had visited Pulse on previous occasions. "I don't know anything, this is news to me. I didn't know about this. I wish I did know his intention, I could have stopped him."

Referring to his previous comment that Omar had been shocked by the sight of two gay men kissing in Miami, his father said: "He wasn't shocked, just a normal reaction, just seeing two guys in front of that bunch of kids and a woman, kissing each other. They could have picked another spot, I guess."

Freedom of choice

Asked if there was anything wrong with two men kissing, he said: "I have no problem or issue with that one. Everybody has his own freedom. The United States is a country where everybody has freedom of choice."

Mr Mateen was also asked to comment on his remark that it was up to God to decide if people should be punished for their homosexuality. He replied: "What I meant was no human being can judge another human being, so an affair of a person gets judged by the creator. God is the one who knows what to do, to punish or reward someone. So as a human, I have no say. Based on the current situation, everybody has his own freedom of choice."

He said his son had been "given a gun legally" by the security company he worked for and that it was wrong he had also been able to buy a semi-automatic weapon.

"I'm anti-gun, i'm against anybody getting a gun. Why do you want to get a gun?, I never had one and I would never want to touch a gun."

 

http://www.channel4.com/news/omar-mateen-should-have-been-killed-before-he-killed

 

 

 

 

 

"Why did the police take so much time? They should have come quick, they should have used gas to just knock him out and get hold of him. This was something that crossed my mind, that it could have been prevented much better."

 

I've been thinking about this.^^

[uo111 5,282]

34 minutes ago, Didymus said:

No.. my point is still the same. People living in modern Western societies, thinking they embrace scientific progress and critical thinking shouldn't be too quick to assume they're so much different than the religious people and their societies they mock.

Everything you said assumed atheists don't think about their beliefs, at least not critically. 

It doesn't mean anything to say, "when atheist think like theist they are no better." Well, duh. 

[lego 44,165]

7 hours ago, ZiggyZiggs said:

And has Zayn not even acknowledged the attack

 

Why specifically him? 

 

[ZiggyZiggs 30,067]

12 minutes ago, YourSweet666 said:

 

Why specifically him? 

 

I was not targeting anyone specifically. I apologise if it came out that way. He's the only mainstream Muslim celeb I know and he hasn't spoken anything yet.

[Didymus 34,380]

20 minutes ago, uo111 said:

Everything you said assumed atheists don't think about their beliefs, at least not critically. 

It doesn't mean anything to say, "when atheist think like theist they are no better." Well, duh. 

Not sure why you're trying to push the conversation in this direction now  My first post about this was a response to someone who said a lack of religious beliefs meant an automatic increase in critical thinking and correct (as in objective) comprehension of the world. So "well, duh" I don't think so.

I don't get why you started quoting me and are now continuing, you're not really responding to anything I'm saying (esp. in the last few replies) and you seem to be missing the context of my earlier posts  I'm not saying anything about atheists who don't think critically about their beliefs, I'm saying that people often overestimate the difference between "religious" and "non-religious" individals.

[MJHolland 12,725]

8 hours ago, M I M I Z said:

He's right + only God is the judge of everyone.

 

Side note: homosexuality is a sin in all religions you know

So is eating shellfish, getting divorced, wearing clothes sown from multiple fabrics, and murder.

It's all Levitican Law, which was expressly rolled back by Jesus Christ himself once he was born and became a priest. Educate yourself.

Anyways, what a shack of sh*t that father is. How dare he. And how the absolute **** did US immigration officials let a guy in from Afghanistan that supports the f*cking Taliban publicly?!?!?!?!?! 

 

[uo111 5,282]

18 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Not sure why you're trying to push the conversation in this direction now  My first post about this was a response to someone who said a lack of religious beliefs meant an automatic increase in critical thinking and correct (as in objective) comprehension of the world. So "well, duh" I don't think so.

I don't get why you started quoting me and are now continuing, you're not really responding to anything I'm saying (esp. in the last few replies) and you seem to be missing the context of my earlier posts  I'm not saying anything about atheists who don't think critically about their beliefs, I'm saying that people often overestimate the difference between "religious" and "non-religious" individals.

I just disagree with you on most accounts, don't mistake that for me not understanding what you're saying.

[uo111 5,282]

24 minutes ago, Didymus said:

 

Double post

[Didymus 34,380]

Just now, uo111 said:

I just disagree with you on most accounts, don't mistake that for me not understanding what you're saying.

"Everything you said assumed atheists don't think about their beliefs, at least not critically. It doesn't mean anything to say, "when atheist think like theist they are no better." Well, duh."

That says otherwise.

[Roomingfree77 244]

9 hours ago, Morphine Prince said:

Kabul (AFP) - The father of the gunman behind the Florida massacre voiced sadness that his son took it upon himself to attack the gay community, saying it was “up to God to punish homosexuals”.

In a video posted on Facebook early Monday, Seddique Mateen said he was grieved by the rampage that left 49 people dead in a gay nightclub in Orlando, calling the 29-year-old killer Omar Mateen a “good and educated son”.

“I am deeply saddened and have announced this to the people of America,” Seddique said in the three-minute video in the Dari language, voicing disbelief that his son carried out the killings during the holy month of Ramadan.

“It is up to God to punish homosexuals. It is not up to servants,” the US resident added, sitting before a flag of his home country Afghanistan.

The assault, the worst mass shooting in modern US history, has triggered an outpouring of grief but also defiance in the gay and lesbian community.

The father is a minor celebrity in Afghan political circles in the US, hosting an occasional television show in which he expresses hardline views – dressed sometimes in a pinstripe suit and other times in military fatigues.

In the “Durand Jirga Show” available on YouTube, he rails against the Pakistani government and announces a quixotic bid to seek the Afghan presidency.

Sitting like a statesman with an Afghan flag in the background, he lauds the Taliban as his “warrior brothers” in one of the videos.

“The Taliban are 100% Afghan,” said a large yellow signboard he held up in a picture he posted on social media.

But his sympathy for the militant group appears confused at best, as he pillories Taliban leaders in various Facebook posts for alleged links with the Pakistani military establishment.

Officials in Afghanistan sought to distance themselves from the family, saying they did not know when exactly Seddique had left the conflict-torn country.

Source: https://www.yahoo.com/news/god-punish-homosexuals-orlando-killers-father-131627726.html

 

and I thought this was gonna be a positive note until I got to the punishing part..

[uo111 5,282]

3 minutes ago, Didymus said:

"Everything you said assumed atheists don't think about their beliefs, at least not critically. It doesn't mean anything to say, "when atheist think like theist they are no better." Well, duh."

That says otherwise.

If you don't mean what you wrote. Don't compare actual laws and governments and real punishments to religious institutions and punishments based entirely on faith, if that's not what you mean. Don't say athiest don't think about why they agree with certain laws if that's not what you mean. I'm not sure what more to say.

[Didymus 34,380]

Just now, uo111 said:

If you don't mean what you wrote. Don't compare actual laws and governments and real to religious institutions and punishments based entirely on faith, if that's not what you mean. Don't say athiest don't think about why they agree with certain laws if that's not what you mean. I'm not sure what more to say.

Except that's not what I did. Don't pull stuff I said out of context. Besides, if you disagree then offer counterarguments  If not, don't ****ing quote me, 'cause you're clearly not interested in having a conversation.