Madonna blasts Age Gracefully group

[Psychedelic 1,098]

1 minute ago, Ferrer Zorola said:

yeah if anything I'm consistent and an integral person lmao 
even when GGD users bash me for going to a Katy concert when I don't like her (I did it cuz her songs make me happy and not very often a production as big as hers comes to town )

You just nailed it.  

Is coherence something to difficult to ask for? NOT!

You can like/dislike anything, anyone or part of these things as much as you want to, but let's be consistent! Ain't no big deal!

[Didymus 34,379]

10 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Women who think having a good body gives them the right to flaunt it in front of everyone (especially those who don't measure up in their view) have serious attitude problems and they are not helping women's rights.

And women who claim to be feminists and then go around shaming other women who are comfortable with their body and their sexuality and want to be provocative to challenge the "We just wanna see a bit of your tits, we don't need to see you as a sexual human being - we are and you just need to be a pretty object we can stare at." (stereotypical male pov that's dominated this culture for ages now) status quo sure aren't doing much to help women's rights either.

I'm glad you have the same ridiculous opinion about Gaga, at least there's no double standard there then. But the very idea of you caring more about people being made "uncomfortable" by a naked body than women expressing themselves in the way they desire just screams of puritanian repression. There is nothing wrong with nudity and you demanding everyone to cover up makes me feel like I'm going back a century. I get your point about the double standard there is between men and women in public, and it's actually not even a bad one, but when you link it to statements like "people couldn't prepare for her being nude!!! they had no choice but to see her revealed!!!" you just end up sounding unconvincing and embarrassing

And I 100% reject your "we pity her" statement. You can't speak for everyone else. I've seen the articles and the majority pointed to her age and how she needs to stop trying to be sexy because it just won't work for her anymore (implying that it would've worked if she was younger - which is exactly what Madge is responding to). So no, it's not about pity, and the look was challenging obviously, otherwise there wouldn't have been such a big deal about it before she spoke up about the criticism in the first place

[Didymus 34,379]

7 hours ago, just4fun said:

Cher at 64

Cher wore this when she was 64 to the 2010 MTV Awards and everyone loved it. Maybe all the backlash is because Madonna just wore a trashy outfit. 

And here she is in 2010 during her Dressed To Kill Tour

All this has been done before just  classier more Vegas Showgirl and less Vegas Callgirl. 

If you seriously think that's classier than Madge's look then I am officially done

If she had walked the red carpet like this she'd have had a similar response as Madge got for her look at the Met Gala  

9 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I'm not saying she has to dress like a man necessarily, but something that at least covers her to the same degree a man would. That would be challenging.

I just wanna go back to this btw.

How would that be challenging? I mean, I honestly would like you to explain that, because I don't see it. Like I showed, Madonna has been wearing suits all through her career, and none of those looks have ever been seen as "challenging" or "controversial". I don't even really believe you when you say you've known her to wear suits in the first place (as I gather from the way you wrote first about Madonna having to switch things up - I mean, your argument in your reply to me doesn't even really make sense because you're criticizing her for already doing the nudity thing in the 90's, but she did the suit thing in the 90's as well, so wouldn't you have to call her repetitive and boring for doing what you'd like her to do, which would be covering up, too? lol), so that's proof enough that those looks are never gonna be remembered as her most challenging moments.

So I don't really get what you mean with "that would be challenging". Madonna made statements when wearing some of her suits, but I doubt the general public caught that. So explain to me how that would be challenging and propelling women's rights further.

[hmm 979]

3 hours ago, Didymus said:

If you seriously think that's classier than Madge's look then I am officially done

If she had walked the red carpet like this she'd have had a similar response as Madge got for her look at the Met Gala  

 This, the lack of backlash wouldn't imply that it was classier - just that it got no attention or nobody cared. 

[Snow 1,582]

9 hours ago, Psychedelic said:

OMG! A certain person here should join the Immaculate Heart of Mary Church's discussion forum, instead of a music forum dedicated to an outrageous, daring pop star and her colleagues who are on the same level of daringness most of times. So contradiciting. FO REEL! 

Amen! Seriously @StrawberryBlond... You are indeed a Victorian housewive with a lot of issues and seem to speak for ALL ppl. Trust me, you are a minority with your (not very healthy) view on nudity which btw is The most natural thing in The world and sexuality. At least here in Finland it is. You do realise that sexual freedom means expressing it as one pleases I.e nude or covered up.(within reason obviously). Its everyone's choice. You are noone to get on a high horse and give demands as to how to express one self and "cover up". You are truly giving a bad name for feminists. Your 50's view is not everyone's view. (Though ofcourse you are entitled to it and can Express it.)

And indeed whT are you doing on this site?!?! I don't get it. Gaga IS The most naked shocker type of a artist. Its an integral part of her art to push ppl in that way. Almost non stop. (Which I admire alot). Like she even changed on public during artrave on purpose. (Please don't Take this as an personal attack, just view &post critisism)

@Didymus @SoldierDownYou guys have very on point commentary! I applaude you guys!

Oh an The whole point is that age or sex shouldn't be The point why you should or should not do or wear something. It should be everyone's choice naked or covered up. And in this case they should be criticized for The Dress not for because their age. I don't think that Dress was best ever, no. Noone is saying one should feel that. But then just say The Dress was butt ugly (pun intended) not keep focusing on M's age like that is what made it ugly or whatever. 

 

[SoldierDown 49]

10 hours ago, Didymus said:

And women who claim to be feminists and then go around shaming other women who are comfortable with their body and their sexuality and want to be provocative to challenge the "We just wanna see a bit of your tits, we don't need to see you as a sexual human being - we are and you just need to be a pretty object we can stare at." (stereotypical male pov that's dominated this culture for ages now) status quo sure aren't doing much to help women's rights either.

I'm glad you have the same ridiculous opinion about Gaga, at least there's no double standard there then. But the very idea of you caring more about people being made "uncomfortable" by a naked body than women expressing themselves in the way they desire just screams of puritanian repression. There is nothing wrong with nudity and you demanding everyone to cover up makes me feel like I'm going back a century. I get your point about the double standard there is between men and women in public, and it's actually not even a bad one, but when you link it to statements like "people couldn't prepare for her being nude!!! they had no choice but to see her revealed!!!" you just end up sounding unconvincing and embarrassing

And I 100% reject your "we pity her" statement. You can't speak for everyone else. I've seen the articles and the majority pointed to her age and how she needs to stop trying to be sexy because it just won't work for her anymore (implying that it would've worked if she was younger - which is exactly what Madge is responding to). So no, it's not about pity, and the look was challenging obviously, otherwise there wouldn't have been such a big deal about it before she spoke up about the criticism in the first place

Exactly 

Saying 'I'm liberal and modern and people are allowed to express their sexuality BUT only to a certain extent and please not too overtly sexual and as long as it doesn't gross people out and only if I agree that it's tasteful and not slutty...' just doesn't work! That's not being feminist. And before it gets claimed that I am, I'm not trying to say being feminist means you have to be sexual or 'just a body' either. But that if you want to present yourself in that way you should have the choice to. Because is being pressured to dress demurely and 'cover up' to suit someone else's taste really that different to being pressured to dress provocatively to suit someone's ('male') tastes. Your image and self expression is still being skewed by others and why should it. 

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

On May 11, 2016 at 4:15 AM, Didymus said:

If you seriously think that's classier than Madge's look then I am officially done

If she had walked the red carpet like this she'd have had a similar response as Madge got for her look at the Met Gala  

I just wanna go back to this btw.

Go ahead book mark this comment and try to use it against me in some pathetic attempt to make a point. It's not like I praised Gaga's Met look. I thought Gaga's look was uninspired and rushed. I find it a little embarrassing that Gaga failed to impress at the Met, especially since futuristic fashion or rather mixing fashion and technology is what she is known for.

Cher has been doing what she does for years and yes I do believe the looks I posted are better than the tragedy Madonna wore to the Met. Cher has been provocative at every age and the outfit she wore at the MTV awards, was an omage to her ICONIC outfit in her If I Could Turn Back Time video. That video was Iconic because of her fight against agism back in the 80's. 

Madonna's Met dress will be forgotten in a year or two except by a couple delusional Madge stans who think she made some sort of statement instead of wearing a terrible black, strapped, leather, lace, government hooker outfit that would have looked as ugly on an 18 year old. If Madonna came to the Met wearing an Iconic past look that was like (just an example) her Like a Virgin wedding gown look that was transformed to fit the theme of the Met, or even if she just wore a spectacular half nude dress that wasn't trashy, it would have been perfect. Its not like this was the only revealing outfit that she could have worn. BTW where is the theme of the Met in Madonna's dress, that was a fail too. 

[Didymus 34,379]

1 minute ago, just4fun said:

BTW where is the theme of the Met in Madonna's dress, that was a fail too. 

You clearly didn't even know what the theme was All of GGD seems to have deluded themselves into thinking the theme was futuristic technology fashion **** whatever, no it was about the place of handmade fashion in an age where technology is slowly taking over the fashion industry.

Both Gaga and Madonna made intelligent looks based on the theme.

The rest of your point is fine, that's your opinion, though I don't think Madge would have been fine if she wore one of her older revealing outfits at all. But I can't prove that so I respect your opinion there.

[StrawberryBlond 13,990]

9 hours ago, Didymus said:

And women who claim to be feminists and then go around shaming other women who are comfortable with their body and their sexuality and want to be provocative to challenge the "We just wanna see a bit of your tits, we don't need to see you as a sexual human being - we are and you just need to be a pretty object we can stare at." (stereotypical male pov that's dominated this culture for ages now) status quo sure aren't doing much to help women's rights either.

I'm glad you have the same ridiculous opinion about Gaga, at least there's no double standard there then. But the very idea of you caring more about people being made "uncomfortable" by a naked body than women expressing themselves in the way they desire just screams of puritanian repression. There is nothing wrong with nudity and you demanding everyone to cover up makes me feel like I'm going back a century. I get your point about the double standard there is between men and women in public, and it's actually not even a bad one, but when you link it to statements like "people couldn't prepare for her being nude!!! they had no choice but to see her revealed!!!" you just end up sounding unconvincing and embarrassing

And I 100% reject your "we pity her" statement. You can't speak for everyone else. I've seen the articles and the majority pointed to her age and how she needs to stop trying to be sexy because it just won't work for her anymore (implying that it would've worked if she was younger - which is exactly what Madge is responding to). So no, it's not about pity, and the look was challenging obviously, otherwise there wouldn't have been such a big deal about it before she spoke up about the criticism in the first place

I'm not so much shaming these women as offering kind words of advice. Because you don't get respect when you're naked. Fact is that men want to see women scantily dressed and naked, regardless of how you choose to show it. That doesn't mean they all want to get with such a woman, but admit it or not, that's what they at least want to see. If men didn't want to see almost completely naked women, why would they watch p0rn? A bit of cleavage, a lot of cleavage, completely topless, men want to see it. So giving them what they want doesn't challenge anything. I don't want women to get objectified and only valued on their bodies and yet I'm the one bringing feminism down? This is how warped third wave feminism is - it devalues massive parts of what built feminism and what won us rights.

I don't want men expressing themselves this way either. It's not puritan repression, it's just wearing clothes, like our society expects of us, keeping things appropriate and respecting other people. There is nothing wrong with nudity where appropriate. Sexualised nudity in public is not one of them. And seriously, wouldn't you like at least some kind of warning that someone naked was about to walk down the street, for example? That wouldn't gross you out at all?

No, I don't speak for everyone, but the vast majority were pitying her. Comments like "She's lost the plot," "An intervention is required," "Go away, you're embarrassing yourself" and "She was shocking once, now she's just pathetic and sad," were the order of the day on every article I read about her. And the ones I looked at rarely mentioned her age. People weren't shocked, they were one of two things - laughing or pitying. There was no one genuinely saying they were shocked. They've seen Madonna do it all before, so it's nothing new, so why would they be? The only people who would be shocked are those who had never heard of Madonna until now. Don't kid yourself, any young woman would've been criticised for what she wore. I've seen young starlets be mocked for wearing transparent outfits and suchlike. There aren't pages of discussion because we're shocked, it's because we feel sorry for her and want to make a point about how this look isn't the way to go.

9 hours ago, Didymus said:

I just wanna go back to this btw.

How would that be challenging? I mean, I honestly would like you to explain that, because I don't see it. Like I showed, Madonna has been wearing suits all through her career, and none of those looks have ever been seen as "challenging" or "controversial". I don't even really believe you when you say you've known her to wear suits in the first place (as I gather from the way you wrote first about Madonna having to switch things up - I mean, your argument in your reply to me doesn't even really make sense because you're criticizing her for already doing the nudity thing in the 90's, but she did the suit thing in the 90's as well, so wouldn't you have to call her repetitive and boring for doing what you'd like her to do, which would be covering up, too? lol), so that's proof enough that those looks are never gonna be remembered as her most challenging moments.

So I don't really get what you mean with "that would be challenging". Madonna made statements when wearing some of her suits, but I doubt the general public caught that. So explain to me how that would be challenging and propelling women's rights further.

You seriously don't know why a woman wearing a suit in a world that demands her to be scantily dressed would be challenging? I've basically given you the answer in that rhetorical question. I think I see the problem here - you think "challenging" and "controversial" are the same thing. They're not. A challenge is anything that tackles the status quo, meaning you could attack a liberal status quo with a conservative one. You've said yourself that men do want women to be sexual, so posing a challenge to this status quo would be not being sexual. Get it? Not every challenge has to be controversial one or a sexual one. And yes, I do know her to have worn suits in the past considering Madonna became relevant to me as a kid in 2000 when she had the more conservative looks during her Music era and when she did the Me Against The Music video with Britney. They may not have been remembered as challenging moments, but they were moments in which she made some of her most memorable and praised music and is what made some people realise that she was more than a one trick pony who could only do sexual stuff. It won her respect, which is what keeping your clothes on does. That's why men in music get respect - they keep their clothes on. If they didn't, they'd be disrespected as much as the women for selling nothing but sex.

It's funny how you think the public would totally get a controversial statement concerning nudity but wouldn't get a conservative statement in a suit the same way. Do you think the public is that stupid? The public knows a u-turn when they see it and the implications it has. But it's no wonder this challenge isn't made more when people like you think the public won't understand it. If you just keep giving people what they've always expected, they won't know any better and just keep demanding the same old stuff. Challenge them and they'll sit up and take notice. Covering ourselves up propels women's rights because it makes people concentrate on what we say, not how we look (speaking as a busty girl, I've always dressed conservatively if it involves giving a speech as I've seen people's eyes wander all too often when dressed otherwise and it makes people more likely to switch off when they remain focused on your looks above all else). Covering up also gives us the respect men get, for we are sending the message that we are not objects to be looked at. And covering up provides us with the confidence of knowing that we're less likely to be leered at. This doesn't mean that we have to cover up all the skin bar our face and hands, but it does mean that dressing in a more dignified way gets us on the same level as men. Men are socialised to see a woman dressed in jeans and a t-shirt as one of them, someone normal, someone to be respected. They're socialised to see scantily dressed women as sex objects. You can't change what's been hard-wired into men for centuries. As long as we continue to have p0rn and the sex industry, none of these sexualised "challenges" are understood or make a difference.

3 hours ago, Snow said:

Amen! Seriously @StrawberryBlond... You are indeed a Victorian housewive with a lot of issues and seem to speak for ALL ppl. Trust me, you are a minority with your (not very healthy) view on nudity which btw is The most natural thing in The world and sexuality. At least here in Finland it is. You do realise that sexual freedom means expressing it as one pleases I.e nude or covered up.(within reason obviously). Its everyone's choice. You are noone to get on a high horse and give demands as to how to express one self and "cover up". You are truly giving a bad name for feminists. Your 50's view is not everyone's view. (Though ofcourse you are entitled to it and can Express it.)

And indeed whT are you doing on this site?!?! I don't get it. Gaga IS The most naked shocker type of a artist. Its an integral part of her art to push ppl in that way. Almost non stop. (Which I admire alot). Like she even changed on public during artrave on purpose. (Please don't Take this as an personal attack, just view &post critisism)

Isn't that not rude to suggest someone has issues just because their views don't line up with yours? And I never claimed to speak for everyone. My view on nudity is perfectly healthy and is shared with a lot of people - it's just this modern society that tells girls to have it all hanging out that makes me look prudish by comparison. It's sad how anyone who just wants to be dignified as deemed as "unhealthy." Yes, nudity is the most natural thing in the world, but do you know else is? Urinating, defecating, burping, vomiting...would you want me to do any of these things in front of you? No, because just because something's natural doesn't mean we want to see it. Some things require privacy. And we need more of it in this world where our every move is watched. And yes, in Finland, you may be more freewheeling, but here in Britain, our culture is different and we don't have hot springs to jump into naked with strangers.

Indeed, what am I doing on this site? Which means that I don't think nudity is all bad and it has its place. I don't like everything Gaga does but I can deal with it when she makes good music and is a good person too. I find it odd how you say I'm allowed to express my opinion but then bash me for it and say I'm unhealthy for holding it. That's ironically not very liberal or open minded, is it?

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

30 minutes ago, Didymus said:

You clearly didn't even know what the theme was All of GGD seems to have deluded themselves into thinking the theme was futuristic technology fashion **** whatever, no it was about the place of handmade fashion in an age where technology is slowly taking over the fashion industry.

Both Gaga and Madonna made intelligent looks based on the theme.

The rest of your point is fine, that's your opinion, though I don't think Madge would have been fine if she wore one of her older revealing outfits at all. But I can't prove that so I respect your opinion there.

This is where I got the theme from. http://www.vogue.com/13360232/met-gala-2016-theme/

Should I have looked somewhere else?

The theme is about a juxtaposition of both new technology in fashion with hand made. At least this is my interpretation of the theme. 

Niether Gaga or Madonna nailed the theme. Maybe if the combined their hidieous looks then at least they would have the theme correct. 

 

[Ciccone Madonna 1,362]

57 minutes ago, just4fun said:

Go ahead book mark this comment and try to use it against me in some pathetic attempt to make a point. It's not like I praised Gaga's Met look. I thought Gaga's look was uninspired and rushed. I find it a little embarrassing that Gaga failed to impress at the Met, especially since futuristic fashion or rather mixing fashion and technology is what she is known for.

Cher has been doing what she does for years and yes I do believe the looks I posted are better than the tragedy Madonna wore to the Met. She has been provocative at every age and the outfit she wore at the MTV awards, was an omage to her ICONIC outfit in her If I Could Turn Back Time video. That video was Iconic because of her fight against agism back in the 80's. 

Madonna's Met dress will be forgotten in a year or two except by a couple delusional Madge stans who think she made some sort of statement instead of wearing a terrible black, strapped, leather, lace, government hooker outfit that would have looked as ugly on an 18 year old. If Madonna came to the Met wearing an Iconic past look that was like (just an example) her Like a Virgin wedding gown look that was transformed to fit the theme of the Met, or even if she just wore a spectacular half nude dress that wasn't trashy, it would have been perfect. Its not like this was the only revealing outfit that she could have worn. BTW where is the theme of the Met in Madonna's dress, that was a fail too. 

 Back in the day TV shows were saying that Cher is trying to copy Madonnas trendy style. Get your facts about If i could turn back time. It is labeled  as an attempt to make a controversial video after Madonna s impact. I am 46 from South Coast and Cher was never considered provocative.

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

16 minutes ago, Ciccone Madonna said:

 Back in the day TV shows were saying that Cher is trying to copy Madonnas trendy style. Get your facts about If i could turn back time. It is labeled  as an attempt to make a controversial video after Madonna s impact. I am 46 from South Coast and Cher was never considered provocative.

Lol this is funny. Please tell me more. 

[Ciccone Madonna 1,362]

8 minutes ago, just4fun said:

Lol this is funny. Please tell me more. 

What do you want to learn ? I am also a fan of cher, but saying that Cher is or was provocative it is not true. When i was young in the 70s, early 80s thats what me and my classmates believed. When Madonna came to scene it was BIG BANG for many of us especially in the 80s that America passed a phase of re-conservatism. For me Cher is more theatric dress code. thats how i always have her in my mind, not provocative.

[StrawberryBlond 13,990]

3 hours ago, SoldierDown said:

Exactly 

Saying 'I'm liberal and modern and people are allowed to express their sexuality BUT only to a certain extent and please not too overtly sexual and as long as it doesn't gross people out and only if I agree that it's tasteful and not slutty...' just doesn't work! That's not being feminist. And before it gets claimed that I am, I'm not trying to say being feminist means you have to be sexual or 'just a body' either. But that if you want to present yourself in that way you should have the choice to. Because is being pressured to dress demurely and 'cover up' to suit someone else's taste really that different to being pressured to dress provocatively to suit someone's ('male') tastes. Your image and self expression is still being skewed by others and why should it. 

It's not so much a feminist statement as a...humanist one. It's about respecting everyone and keeping yourself dignified. I say this to everyone, not just women. Surely not wanting to be just a sex object is a feminist stance? It's what feminism was built on. And yeah, you get a choice but just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. We all live in this society together and we've decided upon some rules of decency. Let's adhere to them. Society is so self-absorbed and entitled right now. They think if they want something, they have the right to get it, if they want to say/do something, they have the right to say/do it. Because they're a #badbitch and they can do whatever they like. Sorry, real life doesn't work like that. Act like that and no one's going to like you and say stuff about you behind your back. Do you really think girls who go out wearing clothes to make men who are spoken for look at them are supposed to be flying the flag for women? Are women who work in the sex industry, doing things that reinforce negative stereotypes of women and do stuff with married men supposed to be flying the flag for women? Or that a girl exposing herself puts her in control? These days, so many girls can't differentiate the difference between being powerful and just wanting attention to feed their low self-esteem. They confuse that rush of euphoria you get with acknowledgement for power and it's sad. When you have real power, men and sex don't come into it at all and you remain powerful even when you're older and no longer beautiful.

[JusKeepBreathin 19,311]

3 hours ago, Ciccone Madonna said:

What do you want to learn ? I am also a fan of cher, but saying that Cher is or was provocative it is not true. When i was young in the 70s, early 80s thats what me and my classmates believed. When Madonna came to scene it was BIG BANG for many of us especially in the 80s that America passed a phase of re-conservatism. For me Cher is more theatric dress code. thats how i always have her in my mind, not provocative.

OMG the fact that reporter called Cher "elder" with emphasis and you guys claim you are on the right side of the agism issue. Lol

The delusion in that video is real. The cross for earnings thing takes the cake. Lol I have never heard something so ridiculous. 

Thank you though because I have officially met the most deluded Madge Stan on GGD.

I can probably shît all over that video with one picture.

Cher at the 1980 premier of The Bride. Notice the earnings. Lol