Beyoncé, Gaga, Madonna, Prince and the Gendered Use of the Word ‘Genius'

[jojuun 4,159]

5 minutes ago, faysalaaa1 said:

Im a Arab, Muslim and Gay and I hate SJW.. it was nothing to do with being white and male.. stop judging people based on their skin color.

I am not trying to judge people on their skin color, it's just that the entire "stop SJW"-thing is mostly pushed by Caucasian men that cannot see any other point of view simply because it's not theirs. And it doesn't matter you are Arab, Muslim and gay... Sexism is real and women are denied a lot in this world. There's nothing "SJW" about calling that out. It's just FACTS. People who say "oh, there's the SJW card" or "there's the woman card" or "there's the sexist card" are plain stupid. Because that's not an excuse, that's simply a FACT. How many times do I have to say FACT in this thread before everyone understands? Sexism and gender-based discrimination is REAL. Women DO NOT have the same rights and privileges as men, that's not some SJW conspiracy theory, that is just reality. Do you want me to post the link to studies and papers on the inequality between men and women in this world?

[PunkTheFunk 122,949]

8 minutes ago, jojuun said:

I strongly disagree.

You are clearly talking about sonical, musical "genius" instead of the pop culture genius this article is talking about. Are Bowie and Prince genius music wise? Absolutely. But arguably, Prince and Bowie "only" had a few worldwide hits everyone knows. Most people remember Purple Rain, Sexy MF'er, Kiss, Heroes, China Girl and Let's Dance and the fact both men played with sexuality, gender, fashion and make-up. THAT is what this article is about. They are hailed and praised because of the IMPACT they had with their hits and overall appearance, not the fact Prince and Bowie made sonically interesting albums. None of their last work even charted before their death, which is proof in the pudding that the major public did not care about their musical quality as much as the impact they had on our current society by experimenting with gender and sexuality earlier in their careers. Madonna and Beyonce (recently) have done the exact same thing. Rihanna is indeed not a good example. She's doing her thing but she is not pushing anything other than herself. She's edgy look-wise but it doesn't stand for much in regards to her music. But she's making progress with her entire nipple-campaign she's having at the moment. 

And Björk and Kate Bush are absolutely both musical geniuses but they did not have the cultural impact Madonna had or Beyoncé is having right now, simply because they are not major-label pop artists that make music for the masses. And arguably, Ray of Light is a very, very off-beat pop new-wave electronic record that is up there with the musical genius of let's say Björk. Just because Madonna has chosen to go back to commercial-driven (some would say "generic") pop music with her last few albums doesn't mean she has released sonically interesting music.

Björk and Kate Bush didn't influence the broader audiences. It's simply a fact.

I just skimmed through the article  If we're talking about pop culture genius then yes, Madonna and Bey are without a doubt pop culture geniuses.

[Sizzily 14,543]

4 minutes ago, jojuun said:

I am not trying to judge people on their skin color, it's just that the entire "stop SJW"-thing is mostly pushed by Caucasian men that cannot see any other point of view simply because it's not theirs. And it doesn't matter you are Arab, Muslim and gay... Sexism is real and women are denied a lot in this world. There's nothing "SJW" about calling that out. It's just FACTS. People who say "oh, there's the SJW card" or "there's the woman card" or "there's the sexist card" are plain stupid. Because that's not an excuse, that's simply a FACT. How many times do I have to say FACT in this thread before everyone understands? Sexism and gender-based discrimination is REAL. Women DO NOT have the same rights and privileges as men, that's not some SJW conspiracy theory, that is just reality. Do you want me to post the link to studies and papers on the inequality between men and women in this world?

Name 10 off the top of your head. And not the "wage gap".

[jojuun 4,159]

25 minutes ago, Sizzily said:

The website I mean. Yeah, there are good points but TheMarySue is just  

And going on my Instagram to see what race I am so you can guilt me for being white? Girl, bye. And my hair color? You're on some next level sh*t, sweetie. I don't have the f**king time.

You might need one of these.

I love how you went back to change this post from the simple "I meant the website" sentence to this edited mess trying to come at me.

"Sweetie" YOU are linking your Instagram to your posts on this public website and I am not guilting you because you are white or whiteshaming you at all. I myself am white. It's just so old, inconsiderate and less than smart for ANYONE to say "SJW!" on a lengthy article that discusses a relevant topic/problem in our society. Like, why? If you don't like the discussion or if you don't want to be part of it, just leave. And what is so SJW about this article anyway? This is the second time I ask you that. Sexism is REAL. And your skin could be BLUE for all I care, it's still not your place to say "SJW mess " on an article about sexism and inequality because you are a man and you haven't experienced sexism in your life, therefore you are clearly incapable of placing yourself in someone else's situation and recognize that maybe, in our so called civilized world, women still do not enjoy the same treatment as men. 

Go in another thread.

[weed 70,530]

Yaassss! I love this article! It's so true!

Madonna (and Mariah and Whitney, but solely because of their voice, nothing else) is the only female artist that is hailed as a legend from what I've experienced, and even then she's not as respected as, for example, Bowie.

[mmm 879]

Just now, jojuun said:

I am not trying to judge people on their skin color, it's just that the entire "stop SJW"-thing is mostly pushed by Caucasian men that cannot see any other point of view simply because it's not theirs. And it doesn't matter you are Arab, Muslim and gay... Sexism is real and women are denied a lot in this world. There's nothing "SJW" about calling that out. It's just FACTS. People who say "oh, there's the SJW card" or "there's the woman card" or "there's the sexist card" are plain stupid. Because that's not an excuse, that's simply a FACT. How many times do I have to say FACT in this thread before everyone understands? Sexism and gender-based discrimination is REAL. Women DO NOT have the same rights and privileges as men, that's not some SJW conspiracy theory, that is just reality. Do you want me to post the link to studies and papers on the inequality between men and women in this world?

SJW is mostly pushed by Caucasian men because they constantly attack Men and Whites.. If you want to judge someone based on their privilege, then I should also judge you based on youre underprivilege and you should not talk about privileged white men because you also dont know how it feels to be one.

I dont have a problem with calling sexism out or the article, I was just annoyed by youre comment to the other person.. but yeah lets talk sexism if u want and show me how women face more sexism than men and ill prove you wrong.

[jojuun 4,159]

5 minutes ago, Sizzily said:

Name 10 off the top of your head. And not the "wage gap".

Are you f*cking kidding me? Are you IMPLYING inequality isn't real?

Well, you might not find "the wage gap" a thing but IT IS a f*cking thing.

1. In the US, in 2015, female full-time workers made only 79 cents for every dollar earned by men, a gender wage gap of 21 percent. 

2. Young girls in many different parts of the world not allowed to enjoy education, let alone higher education.

3. Women are (generally speaking) not seen as leaders. Compared to men, we have few women in powerful positions. From high-placed politicians to CEO's of powerful companies, there's an enormous gap. Want me to pull up those numbers for ya?

4. According to the UN, 40 percent of young women in South Asia and Sub-Saharan Africa are married by their 18th birthday. Women are seen as "a gift" to men.

5. In our Western society a woman who has had her fair share of sexual partners is seen as "promiscuous girl" or plain sl*t. The term for a man is "player".

6. Women are literally seen as "the weaker sex". Women are still not permitted to serve in frontline combat in (for instance) the UK, Indonesia, Turkey, and Slovakia.

7. Sexual violence. Go watch Till It Happens To You. While men do get raped or sexually intimidated, it's still mostly women who suffer. Oh and did you know about India’s recent ruling that rape laws do not apply to married couples? So if you do not give consent, you could get raped because hey, he's your husband. Screw what you want, be his slave! 

8. Freedom of clothing. Do you really want me to pull up numbers, articles and essays about how women are supposed to cover up both here and in many other parts of the world? Or could you use your internet connection for a purpose for once and EDUCATE yourself?

9. Husbands in Egypt and Bahrain can file an official complaint at the airport to forbid their wives from leaving the country for any reason. In Syria, a husband can prevent his wife from leaving the country. In Iraq, Libya, Jordan, Morocco, Oman and Yemen, married women must have their husband’s written permission to travel abroad, and they may be prevented from doing so for any reason. In Saudi Arabia, women must obtain written permission from their closest male relative to leave the country or travel on public transportation between different parts of the kingdom.

10. In many parts of the world, there is female genital cutting, also known as 'female circumcision'. It's the removal of some or all of the external female genitalia so that women cannot enjoy sexual pleasure and are simply having sex for the purpose of giving birth. For the most part, victims are between 3 and 16 years old when this usually takes place.

I could go on and on and on and on for hours.

I'll take the warning point: you are an uneducated mess.

Please get out of this thread.

[Duella Dvil 10,230]

4 minutes ago, jojuun said:

Are you f*cking kidding me? Are you IMPLYING inequality isn't real?

Well, you might not find "the wage gap" a thing but IT IS a f*cking thing.

1. In the US, in 2015, female full-time workers made only 79 cents for every dollar earned by men, a gender wage gap of 21 percent. 

2. Young girls in many different parts of the world not allowed to enjoy education, let alone higher education.

3. Women are (generally speaking) not seen as leaders. Compared to men, we have few women in powerful positions. From high-placed politicians to CEO's of powerful companies, there's an enormous gap. Want me to pull up those numbers for ya?

4. According to the UN, 40 percent of young women in South Asia and Sub-Saharan Africa are married by their 18th birthday. Women are seen as "a gift" to men.

5. In our Western society a woman who has had her fair share of sexual partners is seen as "promiscuous girl" or plain sl*t. The term for a man is "player".

6. Women are literally seen as "the weaker sex". Women are still not permitted to serve in frontline combat in (for instance) the UK, Indonesia, Turkey, and Slovakia.

7. Sexual violence. Go watch Till It Happens To You. While men do get raped or sexually intimidated, it's still mostly women who suffer. Oh and did you know about India’s recent ruling that rape laws do not apply to married couples? So if you do not give consent, you could get raped because hey, he's your husband. Screw what you want, be his slave! 

8. Freedom of clothing. Do you really want me to pull up numbers, articles and essays about how women are supposed to cover up both here and in many other parts of the world? Or could you use your internet connection for a purpose for once and EDUCATE yourself?

9. Husbands in Egypt and Bahrain can file an official complaint at the airport to forbid their wives from leaving the country for any reason. In Syria, a husband can prevent his wife from leaving the country. In Iraq, Libya, Jordan, Morocco, Oman and Yemen, married women must have their husband’s written permission to travel abroad, and they may be prevented from doing so for any reason. In Saudi Arabia, women must obtain written permission from their closest male relative to leave the country or travel on public transportation between different parts of the kingdom.

10. In many parts of the world, there is female genital cutting, also known as 'female circumcision'. It's the removal of some or all of the external female genitalia so that women cannot enjoy sexual pleasure and are simply having sex for the purpose of giving birth. For the most part, victims are between 3 and 16 years old when this usually takes place.

I could go on and on and on and on for hours.

I'll take the warning point: you are an uneducated mess.

Please get out of this thread.

@Sizzily to sum up this response

Feminism is necessary. Open your eyes, the world is falling to sh!t in a blazing carosel.

[jojuun 4,159]

5 minutes ago, faysalaaa1 said:

Yeah lets talk sexism if u want and show me how women face more sexism than men and ill prove you wrong.

Are you kidding me? Both you and that mess of a user Sizzily can get out of my thread. I don't have to prove you women face more sexism, it's a FACT. It's proven by thousands of studies and everyone except you two seem to know that. Why are you guys even on here? Have you NOT listened to Gaga at all in like, the past 8 years? You two need to Google studies on gender inequality, Malala Yousafzai and the current isolation and living circumstances of women in Syria.

Women definitely face more sexism than men. And if you are basing your argument on the fact you get picked upon or called out about being gay and having gay character traits, that is all the more proof to my statement. Because in our macho-world "gay behaviour" is seen as emasculating and feminine and that only PROVES even more that being feminine is seen as a weakness, hence SEXISM.

Did the both of you not go to school or something? Do you sometimes use your WiFi connection to read about our world or do you just ignore what's happening?

[mmm 879]

Just now, jojuun said:

Are you kidding me? Both you and that mess of a user Sizzily can get out of my thread. I don't have to prove you women face more sexism, it's a FACT. It's proven by thousands of studies and everyone except you two seem to know that. Why are you guys even on here? Have you NOT listened to Gaga at all in like, the past 8 years? You two need to Google studies on gender inequality, Malala Yousafzai and the current isolation and living circumstances of women in Syria.

Women definitely face more sexism than men. And if you are basing your argument on the fact you get picked upon or called out about being gay and having gay character traits, that is all the more proof to my statement. Because in our macho-world "gay behaviour" is seen as emasculating and feminine and that only PROVES even more that being feminine is seen as a weakness, hence SEXISM.

Did the both of you not go to school or something? Do you sometimes use your WiFi connection to read about our world or do you just ignore what's happening?

Thats an invalid argument.. you challenged me and I accepted youre challenge and after I accepted, you decide to back off and attack me personally! 

[Quartz 11,923]

I don' agree. Madonna IS recognized for her genius. She is undoubtedly bigger than Prince and Bowie. She also has a longer track record of hits than MJ. She will not be selling out arena tours if people don't see her "genius". The fact that she manages to get a major storm era every decade is amazing and mind blowing. If not fading out and being the undisputed queen for 30 years isn't genius, I don't know what is.

[jojuun 4,159]

10 minutes ago, faysalaaa1 said:

Thats an invalid argument.. you challenged me and I accepted youre challenge and after I accepted, you decide to back off and attack me personally! 

LOL

Who are you to say what's a valid and an invalid argument? I didn't challenge you NOR did I attack you personally. Saying I think you are uneducated on this issue isn't "attacking you personally". That's me not understanding how you don't know that women face more sexism. The LITERAL definition of sexism is that it happens to mostly women and girls:

"Sexism or gender discrimination is prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex or gender. Sexism can affect any gender, but it is particularly documented as affecting women and girls."

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexism 

28 minutes ago, faysalaaa1 said:

If you want to judge someone based on their privilege, then I should also judge you based on youre underprivilege and you should not talk about privileged white men because you also dont know how it feels to be one.

I AM a white male. LOL. And I recognize that I am privileged because of that. But I also know that sexism is very, very real because I look and act very feminine to the point that a lot of people actually think I am a girl and I get cat-called by straight men on the street who think I'm a girl. Men who think that because they whisper, cat-call or whistle that I'll turn around and say "Yeah! Let's have sex!". Watch this short video and maybe you'll understand:
 

 

[mmm 879]

Just now, jojuun said:

Who are you to say what's a valid and an invalid argument? I didn't challenge you NOR did I attack you personally. Saying I think you are uneducated on this issue isn't "attacking you personally". That's me not understanding how you don't know that women face more sexism.

I hope you know that saying you are right and I am wrong is a invalid argument.. instead, take the challenge and make an actual argument explaining youre point.. nothing you said proves youre point, its only a comment saying that you are obviously right and im obviously wrong.. I told you I can prove to you that women face less sexism if you just give me youre biggest example of sexism towards western women and ill compare it to sexism towards men and lets see what happens.

[jojuun 4,159]

26 minutes ago, hellothing said:

I don' agree. Madonna IS recognized for her genius. She is undoubtedly bigger than Prince and Bowie. She also has a longer track record of hits than MJ. She will not be selling out arena tours if people don't see her "genius". The fact that she manages to get a major storm era every decade is amazing and mind blowing. If not fading out and being the undisputed queen for 30 years isn't genius, I don't know what is.

Yeah she is when it comes to numbers and facts, but she doesn't get the same respect her male peers did/do in the media. Look at any recent article about Madonna. Most publications point out that she's 57 and "scantily clad", a term the Daily Mail (or Daily Fail rather) loves to use. Yet when Iggy Pop, Mick Jagger or Prince perform(ed) at 50+ in provocative outfits or with skin on display, no one points out they are "old", "over it" or "wrinkly". It's ageist but it's also sexist because men don't get the ageist treatment as much as women do. And it's not even the media, it's also the public. Just look at the Madonna comment sections on the Daily Mail, JustJared or also on here where a lot of users simply state "it's time for her to give it up." Although that is rooted in the fact they are stanning for Gaga and Madonna and Gaga have a "history", it's still sexist because no one said that about Bowie who expressed somewhat of a disliking towards Gaga too. People love to crack jokes that Madonna is "150 years old"... We should be applauding her instead of shaming her, cause out of her entire generation of pop stars, she's the only one who's still alive or relevant. Everyone on her level died, most of them under the enormous pressure and traps of fame and the other half is simply not active or not relevant mainstream-wise (I dare someone to bring up the fact that Cyndi Lauper is still making music like in that other thread a few days ago. Call me when Cyndi sells out a world tour).

[ALGAYDO 28,812]

It's 2016 and people still don't think gender inequality exists? I shouldn't be so surprised tho, there's people out there who are ignorant enough to think that Earth is flat, the holocaust didn't really happen, etc.