Madonnas breakdown, dressed up as a clown

[Manul 7,377]

6 hours ago, james19709 said:

It must be sad to literally have no life. Wishing a breakdown on someone just because they shaded another pop artist that you like. Tragic. You mean near enough nothing to the world, that's the difference between you and her.

It must be sad? Well I wouldn't know, you seem to be familiar with that thing though so if it is sad, I'm sorry you're leading a sad life.

The difference between me and her is correct, the difference between me and you is that I'm realistic about it while you're delusional thinking anyone gives a **** about you and what you think. 

[Brooke Candy 3,970]

She's such a mess LOL

[lego 44,165]

8 hours ago, james19709 said:

It must be sad to literally have no life. Wishing a breakdown on someone just because they shaded another pop artist that you like. Tragic. You mean near enough nothing to the world, that's the difference between you and her.

 

 

Such an awful thing to say.

Learn how to defend your fave without these low personal attacks. 

[TerrenceV2 2,001]

3 hours ago, Stitches said:

It must be sad? Well I wouldn't know, you seem to be familiar with that thing though so if it is sad, I'm sorry you're leading a sad life.

The difference between me and her is correct, the difference between me and you is that I'm realistic about it while you're delusional thinking anyone gives a **** about you and what you think. 

Nnnnnnnnnn

[AJH219 4,448]

5 hours ago, TimisaMonster said:

So basically....

 

Try again 

 

[Ferrer Zorola 3,966]

LMAO 

as if her son has died 

[StrawberryBlond 14,111]

@SEVDALIZA 

Yes, I realise that Madonna took a big risk by making this book when she did and I'm not denying that. But that's beside the point - it's the content that's the argument.

Here's the thing, why should sex be demystified? I don't think anything bad came about by keeping sex private. Talking about it and putting it into text is fine, but why the need to visually capture it? We know how it works, why see it? Frankly, I think mystery is what makes sex so inviting. This is why I find p*rn not all that arousing - once you've seen it all, there's nowhere left to go, so you get desensitised to it (which is where the need to view more extreme clips over time comes from - you've become numb to mild stuff, so you have to go more hardcore). It stands to reason that if you're always surrounded by nudity, the naked form will eventually stop arousing you, as will having sex everyday. It's mystery that keeps us interested in sex, keeps us coming back for more, as does delayed gratification and extended periods of no sex. So, I fail to see why demystifying sex is a positive thing. I don't see why doing sex so publically is the only way to own your sexuality (I think it's damaging to think that way, actually) and notice how we only use this term when talking about celebrities? It doesn't change my mind who was directing all this - it's still the same overall message. The fact it was ahead of its time really doesn't mean anything, it's the content that's the issue. Just because views of it changed over time (because now we're a culture that praises p*rn, which I don't think is a positive thing) doesn't mean I have to like it. Indeed, there is a fine line between presenting and endorsing but when it's in photo-form, it's hard to know the boundaries, especially when there's no context. Personally, because I like submissive fantasies, I think it's very important to be keep them where they belong and never be submissive in public. Women are already sent the message constantly that being submissive is the way to go and we're already bomboarded by sexually submissive women in media everywhere we look. I don't want to add to that perception. I think submissivity is a completely valid fantasy but putting it out in public sends a bad message. I think what's going on in your head and what's going on in your private reality is far sexier than what any photo could capture anyway. On the issue of the LGBT angle, I'm confused as to why so many of them praise this book, as I think it plays to the stereotype of them being wild, uncontrollable sex beasts with weird sexual appetites. There's far too much of that stereotype about and it brings down the perception of the community when all this sleazy stuff is associated with it.

Well, Sex brought visual form to the submissive nature of Anaconda and Madonna certainly had a figure that a lot of men liked, like ABTB. By the way, I don't see why so many people fuss over the supposed sexism in ABTB because she just says one line about men liking this shape, the whole song isn't focused around it. It's about how she's proud of her shape for many reasons and one of them just happens to be that boys like it, it's not a song purely about boys liking that shape. But I did think Anaconda was more problematic for the fact that she glorified drug dealers and supported the idea of women being mindless sex objects and gold diggers. That's the part that's degrading to women everywhere. The problem with Sex is that it doesn't matter if Madonna was empowered or not because at the end of the day, the book is filled with scenes that objectify her. And I don't see how circulating images of objectified women helps women improve their status - surely it should do the opposite? Men don't feel the need to get naked to feel empowered, so why should women? How can you be powerful if you're in the vulnerable state of nakedness? This is a question that I can't get anyone to answer. And I think one of the big fundamental elements of feminism is: "If men shouldn't feel the need to do something, women shouldn't either."

Human Nature is one of my most favourite Madonna songs. And I agree that she shouldn't have felt guilt over what she did (except deciding against a repeat performance, maybe). But this was one of her last bursts of controversy for a while. There was nothing controversial whatsoever in her Ray Of Light era. She did a teeny little bit for Music. And other big controversial moment with American Life. Nothing with Confessions. Another quick burst with Hard Candy. Then back to controversy with MDNA and Rebel Heart. You can see that she went controversial when it suited the times. With Britney and Xtina causing controversy 1998-2003, you can see where she got some of that controversy back with Music and American Life, because being controversial got headlines and was cool again, so she rolled with it. But then cooled down again when it became boring. But then came back to controversy when the advent of Gaga in 2008 made it popular again. We've gone through conservative and liberal years since the 90's came along and Madonna has rolled with that each and every time.

I'm saying that Gaga started getting a lot of backlash during her BTW era for her weirdness getting boring. She was accused of trying too hard to be controversial and different. That the best thing she could do was to dress normally and sing a ballad because that would shock everyone. She could have gone full-on Adele for her next album with all these demands from the public. But she didn't. Her pre-album promo involved her working with Marina Abramovic where she did exercises naked. She released an OTT lead single where she was weird as hell in the music video, with clown make up and hand bras and holding a prosthetic leg in the air. Then she released Venus with the line "don't you know my ass is famous?" and then she released DWUW with the notorious R Kelly with a similarly notorious music video that likely was deemed too controversial to release. She let herself be vomited on at a live show. Then she finished it all off with G.U.Y, a song about power bottoming. She had controversial songs throughout the album like Aura, Jewels & Drugs, MJH and so forth. In a sense, it was her most controversial album. The public really wasn't in the mood for controversial Gaga at this point, but she gave it to them anyway, because that's what she wanted to do. It's only now that she started to tone it down. For all Madonna took a "F you, I'll do what I want" attitude, she retreated into what the public wanted immediately after the backlash and went even more mature with the album after that. If she was such an outspoken person who didn't care what people thought, wouldn't she have gone even further the next time?

15 hours ago, Hexxx said:

That's the problem, you guys want everyone to be like Lady Gaga!!  Stop comparing them, They're two different ppl. Gaga doesn't have children so how the hell you're gonna pull a "Well gaga doesn't.." HUSH! Everyone deals with pain differerently. Her fans enjoyed the show so let her be

Not everyone has to be like her. My response wasn't anything to do with having children, I was responding to the bit about Gaga being put in a negative light for doing something and questioning why she was being made to look bad on her own fan forum. I only made the "Gaga doesn't" defence because the topic of her was brought up.

 

[James19709 456]

10 hours ago, Stitches said:

It must be sad? Well I wouldn't know, you seem to be familiar with that thing though so if it is sad, I'm sorry you're leading a sad life.

The difference between me and her is correct, the difference between me and you is that I'm realistic about it while you're delusional thinking anyone gives a **** about you and what you think. 

I don't care about what others care about... never once said I did.

[James19709 456]

8 hours ago, VampireHeart said:

 

 

Such an awful thing to say.

Learn how to defend your fave without these low personal attacks. 

M ain't my fav lmao

[Iwontell 7,312]

She's going through a tough time in her life, her nest is empty and the way Rocco left probably hurt her a lot...I don't see this as a breakdown but as Madonna venting in her own playful way...

And I loved the outfit too, it's kinda creepy.

[Whispering 18,865]

33 minutes ago, Iwontell said:

She's going through a tough time in her life, her nest is empty and the way Rocco left probably hurt her a lot...I don't see this as a breakdown but as Madonna venting in her own playful way...

And I loved the outfit too, it's kinda creepy.

Her nest isn't empty. She still has two children at home. Are they on tour with her? 

[Iwontell 7,312]

5 minutes ago, Whispering said:

Her nest isn't empty. She still has two children at home. Are they on tour with her? 

Oh yeah, that's true...but still, seeing her children leave, even if not all of them, is probably painful.
I think they go out on tour with her. I remember a IG picture of one David being blessed by a monk in one of the cities they went through not too long ago.

[OmgSum1Actually 3,041]

I loved every single minute of watching that concert on YouTube

[SEVDALIZA 1,274]

@StrawberryBlond

The mystifying of sex directly lead to an increased risk of sexual diseases and related deaths ànd female disempowerment. The need to visually capture it is rooted in the fact that Madonna herself is a visual artist first and foremost and that is how she chooses to express herself. It's the idea that sex shouldn't be talked about that has kept female empowerment back for hundreds of years. And it directly contributed to the ignorance about AIDS etc. because gays literally didn't even know about it. If you talk to gay Madonna fans who lived through the Erotica era you'll see that they credit Madonna for opening up the discussion about it, encouraging safe sex and making it possible to discuss it on a public level at all. She celebrated sexuality as something we shouldn't be ashamed about, but something that shouldn't be indulged in. She constantly stressed that Erotica was about fantasies, not about sexual acts. The Sex book provoked because it was about female sexual fantasies. You may have seen the pictures, but she also wrote passages of text that were shocking to the public because it was a woman talking about what SHE likes, what she expects, demands. It's her ideas that are provocative, not her naked body. You pretend that women seek empowerment in getting naked but you are dead wrong. Women seek empowerment in sexuality because that is the area they can exploit best of all to shock the public into acknowledging a double standard among the sexes. The whole topic goes back into European art of the last centuries. The female nude is a classic element in painting. The fact that you link female nudity to vulnerability is a direct outcome of cultural brainwashing that is reflected in the European female nude where the female is the slave of the male gaze. It is the paintings where the woman looks the viewer dead in the eye that were seen as shocking and unacceptable. A woman is not supposed to own her body, her sexuality. Madonna contributed directly to a culture where females could disentangle the link between female sexuality and weakness or "vulnerability". You claim to be a feminist but you'd rather have women stay in their slavish roles to outdated gender models. The fact that you're judging the Sex book while at the same time acknowledging that you didn't even properly see and read it is enough proof that you shouldn't be discussing it at all. I also don't understand your claim that SEX is a product of female submissiveness when the content and a large portion of the imagery leans towards the suggestion of a female domination and leadership or self liberation from social taboos by symmetrically objectifying yourself. That is the ultimate and most radically effective form of female resistance in this specific subject. You can only feel empowered by turning the status quo upside down. Women like Madonna decide to own their sexuality exactly becàuse it's an area they can protest in. Madonna could have easily retracted after the Erotica & SEX backlash, but she went on to make the highly provocative Girlie Show in 1993. At that point, Madonna had been tirelessly pushing the limits and boundaries with every step she took for over a decade, she had literally reached an all time high/peak in terms of being a provocateur and an all time low in being understood and appreciated. For months leading up to Bedtime Stories' release, the promotion associated cited the record as an apology for the singer's sexually provocative imagery. Critics had also hoped for a return to more innocent form of music. However Madonna instead chose to portray herself as unapologetic for her imagery, as well as talking about scrutiny that female musicians faced. Madonna went opposite to what was being portrayed as the theme of the album in the promotional campaigns, and continued addressing her critics and people who had tried to shame her for being provocative. There was nothing conservative, inoffensive and low profile about her Bedtime Stories image. The music was forward-thinking and borrowed from upcoming European sounds. She had once again reinvented her sound but she still remained the bold, risk taking and unapologetic figure (Hello, the David Letterman 1994 interview?). She was certainly not catering to the masses.

"I was trying to give everyone what I thought they wanted from me" - Gaga in 2014.

While Madonna didn't apologize for Erotica and said she stood by it and it was her vision and she was proud of it. In a way, Madonna carrying on at all after Erotica is a punch in the face of the industry in itself, she wasn't gonna get beat down by media fabrications, she'd reinvent her image and keep saying what she wants to say and people will listen to her despite of her previous bad reputation. Again: that's empowerment. She defied categorization. Your theory of Madonna using controversy only when it suits her doesn't make sense, first of all, remember back in 1989 when Madonna's contract with Pepsi was canceled due to the Like a Prayer video controversy? it didn't suit her back then, but she still continued. Second of all, she literally invented the art of controversy in the mainstream sense, Christina and Britney adapting a lite approach of Madonna's take on sexuality and religious controversy is nothing but an extension of what Madonna has already done. Ray of Light was her only non controversial era at the time (and maybe ever), but that actually weakens your point which claims that with Gaga it is a natural trait but with Madonna it is done for materialistic gain, because ROL was reflective of her studying of the Kabbalah and the birth of her daughter, which at the time gave her inner peace. I remember Music's video caused a controversy because Madonna, being tongue and cheek, poked fun at mainstream male pop videos (and the fact that they objectify women) by imitating them. The 'What It Feels Like For a Girl' music video was controversial as well causing the video to be banned on MTV. Britney's & Christina's provocations came AFTER that. Also, it is stupid to believe that Madonna only used controversy to sell based on the content that she provided, releasing an album as a political statement caused her to be blacklisted on American Radio for years to come, that type of risk taking choices were unprecedented and surely contain a far greater impact and depth than lets say, Britney revealing a little bit of skin (oh, where have we seen that before) or Christina wearing a nun outfit (oh, where have we seen that before), also the VMA's 2003 stage kiss was after the commercial failure that is American Life. Following the logic of your theory and how Madonna works, she should have instantly became demure again, but that doesn't seem to be the case. in 2006, Madonna delivered the most talked about and most controversial pop performance of that year ; Live To Tell at the Confessions Tour while hanging on a giant mirrored cross wearing a crown of thorns.

Born This Way received great reviews (unlike Erotica), it was a blockbuster (unlike Erotica) and was the 2nd best selling album of its year only behind Adele! and the BTWB was a huge success. Also, 'Born This Way', 'The Edge of Glory' & 'You and I' were few of the biggest hits of their years (unlike anything released from Erotica). There was no reason for Gaga to back down and reevaluate herself and her image. ARTPOP's backlash was not even a backlash, people just didn't care for her, because her music disconnected and her creativity and/ or what made her interesting drastically lost its touch. The entire world was too busy freaking out over Miley's outrageous behavior to even pay attention to Gaga, and that's when she decided that she needed do something for the sake of revamping her career, very much like Madonna ; by making the world focus on the music again. 

Last point I'd like to address :

"Yes, I realise that Madonna took a big risk by making this book when she did and I'm not denying that."

You ARE denying that though.  

"the same old objectification"

"she's just doing it to sell well"

"she's only controversial when it suits her"

Sorry, but these claims don't go hand in hand. 

Gaga never kept on being challenging like you claim. Actually, she really hasn't pushed the sphere any further than Madonna did (which you previously noted in this exact same thread), so how is she challenging anyone or anything really? if anything, Madonna portrayed leadership as a woman while Gaga portrayed submissiveness throughout her career. "I'm not a feminist. I hail men! I love American male culture."  or saying she only wants a big **** in a man, getting naked 24/7 for no reason, saying she likes to do what her man tells her to do...How is she the better provocateur? or succumbing to a guy that treats her like crap (Judas). "Could I love you?" in Monster even though she already knows the guy basically assaulted her. For instance, in The Fame Ball 1.0 Gaga was masturbating on a dentist's chair, undoubtedly referencing the fact that she gets turned on by the pain inflicted on her by a man. While Madonna masturbated on her own and took complete control over her own sexuality (female empowerment) decades before that. Notice the difference? Madonna didn't need a man. Madonna has taught young women to be fully female and sexual while still exercising total control over their lives, she democratized the idea of women as protagonists and as agent of their own action and she inspires not because she gives other women a helping hand, but because she breaks the boundaries of what's considered acceptable for women.

*Side note : I completely ignored the fact that you have Lana up there as your avatar while discussing topics such as feminism. Lol.

[LoveandMagic 1,731]

22 hours ago, james19709 said:

...They divorced in 2008.

...So? How does that change the fact that he is currently with a younger woman, something many older women don't like to see in an ex? I'm guessing the woman is much younger than him. And years apart (divorced) may not change any potential animosity between them, especially in custody issues.