Bernie Sanders DESTROYS Hillary During The Univision #DemDebate

[BornAsUnic0rn 2,245]

Queen of destroying corrupt people-

 

Talent always wins

[Voltaire 4,531]

1 minute ago, Morphine Prince said:

Yes, however Bernie seemed to avoid when asked about his "praise" for Castro. He just turned all the Cuban community in Florida against him. 

Now people have an actual basis for calling him a Communist. 

A campaign disaster. Imagine if he were to get to the general election....

Hmm. I see what you're saying, I just don't agree. I think people are nuanced enough to understand the difference between being against US interventionism and regime change vs. being pro-dictatorship. I don't think the NY Times would have given him the "win" tonight if it was so clearly the latter, and I don't think he'd have gotten a standing ovation inside the event if that were true. He outright said he is against authoritarianism right up there on the stage. 

[Morphine Prince 109,648]

1 minute ago, Voltaire said:

Hmm. I see what you're saying, I just don't agree. I think people are nuanced enough to understand the difference between being against US interventionism and regime change vs. being pro-dictatorship. I don't think the NY Times would have given him the "win" tonight if it was so clearly the latter, and I don't think he'd have gotten a standing ovation inside the event if that were true. He outright said he is against authoritarianism right up there on the stage. 

Idk it just rubbed me the wrong way. Made me upset tbh. Maybe I'm just taking it the wrong way. But I'm not the only one. I've been reading reactions online, there are even some people who say they aren't voting for him anymore because of that. 

[Voltaire 4,531]

Just now, Morphine Prince said:

Idk it just rubbed me the wrong way. Made me upset tbh. Maybe I'm just taking it the wrong way. But I'm not the only one. I've been reading reactions online, there are even some people who say they aren't voting for him anymore because of that. 

Sure, I understand. Any time you have a debate, a candidate will certainly say something that will turn some on to their platform, and some off. It's a normal part of the process. I think his overall message of the damage the US has done in regime change and interventionism will hold up solidly, and he'll likely be now asked about it again and again for clarity and explanation. Especially when you compare candidates, we have the Clintons taking money from the Saudi Royal Family (among other unsavory world leaders), and it doesn't seem to hurt her. If the complaint is that he didn't use a strong enough word to describe his dislike of authoritarianism- then it'll not be a big ding in the grand scheme.

Overall, great debate.

[Andy McQueen 4,484]

1 hour ago, CallMe said:

As a student in political science, everyone being crazy about Bernie makes cringe a bit tbh. 

Of course what's he proposing is making everyone dream, because what he's proposing is social progress and would be the absolute best solution. 

Except that there's one thing you don't consider : in a democratic system, we don't elect a dictator for five years with absolute powers, we elect someone with limited powers (especially in the US) and who has to seek consensus with the legislative power that is COMPLETELY differentiated from the executive power. 

In politics, you opt for the relatively better solution rather than the absolute best solution. Because the best solution will satisfy less people in the political realm, therefore it will be harder to implement it (not to say it might be actually impossible in terms of politics). I'm not talking about the technicalities of what Bernie is proposing (technically with absolute powers at the federal level and with all states supporting his propositions, his propositions could be done) but I'm talking about the technicalities of the political field : elected representatives are not here for the common good, they are here for private interests of a part of society. 

 

Studying political science/theory made me sceptic about big promises and I think that if you want real democracy, you can't get everything that you would want to have, democracy is knowing to satisfy oneself with less but it comes in exchange of equality in terms of freedom and relative satisfaction.. 

Of course, no doubt about that. Bernie even admitted it himself if I remember correclty, citing Wall Street etc. - he's like a left-wing populist, the exact contrast to Trump and I'm well aware just him winning alone won't change anything.

 

[Bt1 5,213]

What a title.

They both are professional liars and I dont hold it against them. The only difference is that Bernie is helped by 30 years of demonizations of Hillary by republican side. And I find that horrible. He changes his priorities by state, with the exception of Wall Street. Hillary does that too, but not so abrupt, mostly because she has the advantage of working for the issues for years.

I find more and more that if Bernie would have compete with one of the amazing presidents that he wants to compare himself, he would have find that little wrong thing that they had done and that would be his program. Everyone has done wrong, except him. Well, maybe you have not done enough. Its not exactly a young guy to come with a declaration of intentions. He should have done something over the years for the blacks, latinos and gays. Unfortunately for his supporters, he only has words. Unfortunately, it seems that sometimes they are enough to convince people.

 

[SychosSoChic 9,995]

Yeah no thanks, I'm gonna stick with Hilary. 

[Whispering 18,865]

This thread title. 

Both candidates did well. Bernie said the same thing about Hillary he always says. There was no one "destroying" anyone. 

[Whispering 18,865]

36 minutes ago, Andy McQueen said:

Of course, no doubt about that. Bernie even admitted it himself if I remember correclty, citing Wall Street etc. - he's like a left-wing populist, the exact contrast to Trump and I'm well aware just him winning alone won't change anything.

 

Bernie and Trump are profiting from the same sentiment from voters. They both are being pushed by those who are angry and frustrated with the government. Trump is never going to build a "big, beautiful wall" with Mexico's money and he isn't going to deport 11 to 12 million immigrants from Central America. Bernie isn't going to give 320 million people free healthcare and free public college, without significantly raising the tax rate on everyone in the US. 

They are both preying on the fears and frustrations of people and promising things that are never going to happen....not in the way they are promising. 

[CallMe 577]

2 hours ago, Voltaire said:

http://littlevillagemag.com/watch-bernie-sanders-calls-for-political-revolution-says-no-president-can-enact-student-loan-reform-without-the-u-s-populous/

He openly talks about this in every speech.

 

Except that when you know how the political system actually works in the USA, the word revolution and huge movement behind the president to force Congress to pass a bill is pretty much a mere fantasy. You do remember that Trump is the leading act of the republican party, that Sanders is not leading in a significant way the democratic party, therefore he won't be an Obama crashing the competition ? (Obama who saw the republican party pretty much making his whole presidency a series of conflicts and shutdowns when he's moderate compared to Sanders).

 

What I'm saying is exactly the answer to what he's saying every speech : no revolution can happen, nor should it ever happen (again, not trying to brag, but Arendt, one of the main author of the XX century in political theory clearly shows how no revolution ever can resolve the social question), and no mass movement can really happen to pressure enough the republican party into such a big consensus that would represent the biggest crisis in terms of principle for this party. 

[Voltaire 4,531]

1 minute ago, CallMe said:

Except that when you know how the political system actually works in the USA, the word revolution and huge movement behind the president to force Congress to pass a bill is pretty much a mere fantasy. You do remember that Trump is the leading act of the republican party, that Sanders is not leading in a significant way the democratic party, therefore he won't be an Obama crashing the competition ? (Obama who saw the republican party pretty much making his whole presidency a series of conflicts and shutdowns when he's moderate compared to Sanders).

 

What I'm saying is exactly the answer to what he's saying every speech : no revolution can happen, nor should it ever happen (again, not trying to brag, but Arendt, one of the main author of the XX century in political theory clearly shows how no revolution ever can resolve the social question), and no mass movement can really happen to pressure enough the republican party into such a big consensus that would represent the biggest crisis in terms of principle for this party. 

It's not just about people going *against* congress. It's about people and their selection of the new congress. Almost all of the House is up for re-election, and like a 1/3 of the Senate. A presidential run can absolutely flip the majority of congress, and often has.

It's a step in the right direction. And our greatest presidents in the past have done enormous things in office, FDR a great example of this among others.

[Rino 5,124]

god I'm so excited to see which one will become the president from these two. 

I have never seen such messy presidential elections my entire life 

[Himeros26 1,688]

4 hours ago, MelbHawker said:

At the end of the day - no matter who America votes for.. all these promises and brilliant ideas that are being presented will be talked about, but never actioned. It's all a big promotional campaign. That's politics folks.

nope.

voting doesn't stop at presidency, it continues afterwards with congress or the supreme court i believe, it's just people dont really care after that. They expect everything to magically happen.

 

OT: BERNIE KING OBLITERATED HER I LOVED IT HE IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE VICIOUS IM IN LOVE

[Himeros26 1,688]

2 hours ago, Morphine Prince said:

Yes, however Bernie seemed to avoid when asked about his "praise" for Castro. He just turned all the Cuban community in Florida against him. 

Now people have an actual basis for calling him a Communist. 

A campaign disaster. Imagine if he were to get to the general election....

Gorl. The standing ovation says otherwise.

[Solitaire 902]

3 hours ago, Florin said:

What a title.

They both are professional liars and I dont hold it against them. The only difference is that Bernie is helped by 30 years of demonizations of Hillary by republican side. And I find that horrible. He changes his priorities by state, with the exception of Wall Street. Hillary does that too, but not so abrupt, mostly because she has the advantage of working for the issues for years.

I find more and more that if Bernie would have compete with one of the amazing presidents that he wants to compare himself, he would have find that little wrong thing that they had done and that would be his program. Everyone has done wrong, except him. Well, maybe you have not done enough. Its not exactly a young guy to come with a declaration of intentions. He should have done something over the years for the blacks, latinos and gays. Unfortunately for his supporters, he only has words. Unfortunately, it seems that sometimes they are enough to convince people.

 

You obviously don't know very much about Bernie or how political campaigns work in general..

and  at you saying that Bernie changes his priorities based on audience more than Clinton