Gaga has the greatest National Anthem of all time

[Bebe 17,094]

Just now, ShockPop said:

@Enigma you go Glen coco. Ggd putting this thread on their FB page!

Anyway, @Bebe your whole arguement has boiled down to "I want you to express your opinion in a certain way". Too bad. This is not Auschwitz. Opinions will be expressed in various ways, regardless of your **** whining.

On the subject of the performance; it was very very American. By that I mean you would never have a performance from anyone other than an American that was quite so over the top. She might as well have turned half way through and murdered a terrorist with a printed version of the constitution, it was so American.

It was impossible not to be pulled in by the passion of it all. She was obviously very nervous and that showed in her vocal. Despite the oblivious nature of flip flopping members of this site, she definitely used "dope voice" at various points.

Unfortunately for Whitney Houston, Gaga was able to perform live and without the backing of an orchestra. When comparing the 2 performances, it's not a comparison of 2 live vocals, but of one live and one studio version. That's unfair... To Whitney. Gaga wins by default because it was a live performance and Whitney's wasn't.

Gaga wins because Whitney's disqualified for faking a live vocal. Anyone can lip sync to a studio recording.

"your whole arguement has boiled down to "I want you to express your opinion in a certain way". Too bad. This is not Auschwitz. Opinions will be expressed in various ways, regardless of your **** whining."

Only if you completely misrepresent what I say. There is a difference between stating your preference and making a grand statement. There is a difference between saying "I like *this* more" and "*this* is better".

There is a difference between:

"Gaga's performance is better than Whitney Houston's"
 

and

"Gaga's performance is so good that it could be up there with Whitney Houston's, I actually like Gaga's more"

[Florian 19,973]

3 hours ago, Bebe said:

Don't do that... Don't ****ing twist what I say.

You're twisting what he said since your very first message. Isn't an opinion subjective? Yes it is. Isn't it possible that Enigma think from the bottom of his heart that Gaga topped Whitney on this performance? Yes it is.

You're playing on words, writting extra-long messages based on YOUR interpretation of what YOU THINK Enigma is saying ! Your opinion is that Whitney can't be topped, nice. Then let people have their own opinion instead of crushing them with tons of unneeded words. Is it that hard to understand ?

And of course you can compare two performances. How would singing contests work if it wasn't possible ? You can judge so many things in a performance (from notes to vibrato or breath, etc) and the best performance will depends on the sensitivities of each. And to the people who try to argue with side-effects (like the rereleased and impact) you clearly missed the point. If you judge a performance it's from the first note to the last one, not what happened 10years after.

Moreover the "disrespectful" aspect is completely irrelevant in my opinion. Why would it be disrespectful to think that a performance is better than an other? That's just an inanity.

 

 

[ShockPop 7,747]

1 minute ago, Bebe said:

"your whole arguement has boiled down to "I want you to express your opinion in a certain way". Too bad. This is not Auschwitz. Opinions will be expressed in various ways, regardless of your **** whining."

Only if you completely misrepresent what I say. There is a difference between stating your preference and making a grand statement. There is a difference between saying "I like *this* more" and "*this* is better".

There is a difference between:

"Gaga's performance is better than Whitney Houston's"
 

and

"Gaga's performance is so good that it could be up there with Whitney Houston's, I actually like Gaga's more"

There is a difference between those statements. That's because they mean different things. One of those things is obviously going to be a misrepresentation of what the op thought. Nobody has to say "in my opinion and not the opinion of others" or water down their expression of thoughts. That's an incredibly overbearing and frankly nasty expectation. Grow up.

[ShockPop 7,747]

4 minutes ago, Clean said:

yeah if it goes by you, gaga is the best vocalist of all time

 

Whitney 'The Voice' Houston is not anyone.

She's 1/3rd of the VOCAL TRINITY

 

and not everyone can produce top notch vocals even in studio

 

if that was the case, Katy would be belting like Celine

I don't doubt that she would have nailed it live... But she didn't. It's unfortunate but a fact that it was not a live performance. If that's excusable then Britney Spears is one of the greatest singers of all time.

[Serendipity 7,821]

Just now, ShockPop said:

I don't doubt that she would have nailed it live... But she didn't. It's unfortunate but a fact that it was not a live performance. If that's excusable then Britney Spears is one of the greatest singers of all time.

it's not her fault they didn't let her

 

and Britney could sing too fyi 

 

[Kim Kardashian 2,708]

She like killed it!

I think it was a smart move from us to not release a new KUWTK episode last night. It would've flopped.

[ShockPop 7,747]

2 minutes ago, Clean said:

it's not her fault they didn't let her

 

and Britney could sing too fyi 

 

Britney has always been terrible. Even as a child.

No it wasn't Whitney's fault it wasn't live... But it still wasn't live.

I don't think standing and not singing a single note should qualify as a great performance.

[Serendipity 7,821]

1 minute ago, ShockPop said:

Britney has always been terrible. Even as a child.

not when she won the singing competition at the end

critics disagree

[ShockPop 7,747]

Just now, Clean said:

not when she won the singing competition at the end

critics disagree

In America, "cute" gets you a lot of undeserved accolades.

She cannot sing at all and is a legendary pop star for goodness sake. Her vocals were never a factor in her career.

[Bebe 17,094]

17 minutes ago, Florian said:

You're twisting what he said since your very first message. Isn't an opinion subjective? Yes it is. Isn't it possible that Enigma think from the bottom of his heart that Gaga topped Whitney on this performance? Yes it is.

You're playing on words, writting extra-long messages based on YOUR interpretation of what YOU THINK Enigma is saying ! Your opinion is that Whitney can't be topped, nice. Then let people have their own opinion instead of crushing them with tons of unneeded words. Is it that hard to understand ?

And of course you can compare two performances. How would singing contests work if it wasn't possible ? You can judge so many things in a performance (from notes to vibrato or breath, etc) and the best performance will depends on the sensitivities of each. And to the people who try to argue with side-effects (like the rereleased and impact) you clearly missed the point. If you judge a performance it's from the first note to the last one, not what happened 10years after.

Moreover the "disrespectful" aspect is completely irrelevant in my opinion. Why would it be disrespectful to think that a performance is better than an other? That's just an inanity.

 

 

"Isn't an opinion subjective? Yes it is. Isn't it possible that Enigma think from the bottom of his heart that Gaga topped Whitney on this performance? Yes it is."

Of course he can think that from the bottom of his heart, he clearly does as he made a f*cking thread about it. Am I not allowed to criticise that thought pattern? Am I not allowed to be annoyed that people pit women against each other in competition? I've already said, there is a way you can compare performances. It's just that you can't ignore the cultural and historical significance behind Whitney's performance of the national anthem. That is a stand alone performance, it's the most iconic performance of her career.

You can see in this thread I actually did compare the performances from the start note to the end note, I just don't think you can ignore the context behind the song.

It's disrespectful to say that Gaga "topped" the second most iconic thing in Whitney's entire career mere hours after she sang the anthem, it's part of her legacy and it's one of the things she is most known for. There is a cultural significance placed upon that performance whether people want to acknowledge it or not.

When such important cultural and iconic moments happen, they are stand alone imo. Like I explained to another user, you want to compare and discuss best and worst dressed on the red carpet? Sure, but if 25+ years from now some chick wears a dress made out of lasers and a hat that shoots electricity, you can't come out and say "Well that topped Gaga's meat dress"... Like no. They are two separate and iconic cultural  moments that left a lasting impact. You can stand beside such moments, you can't "top" a cultural phenomenon.


 

 

16 minutes ago, ShockPop said:

There is a difference between those statements. That's because they mean different things. One of those things is obviously going to be a misrepresentation of what the op thought. Nobody has to say "in my opinion and not the opinion of others" or water down their expression of thoughts. That's an incredibly overbearing and frankly nasty expectation. Grow up.

"There is a difference between those statements. That's because they mean different things"

Absolutely, there is a difference.

I'm not suggesting that people "water down their expression or thoughts" I'm suggesting there is a difference between stating preference and stating that an artist has "topped" another artist. One is an expression of subjective preference and taste and the other is making pitting artists against each other in a competition.

With one, you can recognise the important cultural and iconic performance that was Whitney Houston's representation of the national anthem and the other is a complete dismissal of one of the most culturally significant and iconic performances of the national anthem of our generation.

What I am suggesting is that you can have a preference for what performance you like without pitting them against each other. Whitney's performance is stand alone, it's going to forever be the great standard. You can't overwrite the cultural importance of that performance, you can't top that performance, you can only stand beside such iconic moments and add to them- not top them.

[Serendipity 7,821]

Just now, ShockPop said:

In America, "cute" gets you a lot of undeserved accolades.

She cannot sing at all and is a legendary pop star for goodness sake. Her vocals were never a factor in her career.

did you even watch the video?

how is it just "cute" when it was same show that spawned Alanis Morisette, Xtina, JT, Beyonce and others

 

[llbcherry 591]

7 hours ago, Metamorphosis said:

EDIT: NEVERMIND

Whitney sang hers in 1991, just for the record. I am going to read all of the thread, and see what I have to say then. Just wanted to point that out.

Sorry. I cant delete my comment, but I saw someone mentioned this already. Guess I should have read more first.

[Florian 19,973]

3 minutes ago, Bebe said:

Of course he can think that from the bottom of his heart, he clearly does as he made a f*cking thread about it. Am I not allowed to criticise that thought pattern? Am I not allowed to be annoyed that people pit women against each other in competition? I've already said, there is a way you can compare performances.

Oh come on, don't bring that card, it would have been the same with men. Two people sing the same song, it's natural to compare them and it won't change even if you don't like it. That's the first rule if you want to progress : compare and take the benefits of each.

7 minutes ago, Bebe said:

It's just that you can't ignore the cultural and historical significance behind Whitney's performance of the national anthem. That is a stand alone performance, it's the most iconic performance of her career.

You can see in this thread I actually did compare the performances from the start note to the end note, I just don't think you can ignore the context behind the song.

Of course you can, and that's exactly what should be done to be as fair as possible. When you judge something you only judge this thing and nothing else ! An example : someone just got out of jail and he's now suspected for a murder (in this example he is innocent). Will the judge bases his decision on the context or just on the facts and evidences? He will base it on the evidences even if he knows the man's past. Why? Because to be fair you only judge what the case is all about. In our case it's a song of ~2mn. No less, no more.

16 minutes ago, Bebe said:

It's disrespectful to say that Gaga "topped" the most the second most iconic thing in Whitney's entire career mere hours after she sang the anthem, it's part of her legacy and it's one of the things she is most known for. There is a cultural significance placed upon that performance whether people want to acknowledge it or not.

I'm not that kind of man that compare women to cars but that's the only thing that comes to my mind  Let's imagine that Ferrari has currently the best engines. If tomorrow a new start-up create an engine better (so they top the previous ones) than Ferrari's, will this startup be disrespectful to Ferrari because Ferrari legacy was to have the best engines for the past 20 years? I don't think.

23 minutes ago, Bebe said:

Like I explained to another user, you want to compare and discuss best and worst dressed on the red carpet? Sure, but if 25+ years from now some chick wears a dress made out of lasers and a hat that shoots electricity, you can't come out and say "Well that topped Gaga's meat dress"... Like no. They are two separate and iconic cultural  moments that left a lasting impact. You can stand beside such moments, you can't "top" a cultural phenomenon.

Yes you can compare the outfits but is the comparison relevant ? No. Why ? Because fashion evolves. An anthem is meant to be timeless just like classical music. You can sing it now, in 20years or 200years it will be the same. Singing an anthem is just about VOCAL SKILLS. So yes we can compare vocal skill because in 20 years people will still sing the anthem the same way. 

[ShockPop 7,747]

44 minutes ago, Bebe said:

"Isn't an opinion subjective? Yes it is. Isn't it possible that Enigma think from the bottom of his heart that Gaga topped Whitney on this performance? Yes it is."

Of course he can think that from the bottom of his heart, he clearly does as he made a f*cking thread about it. Am I not allowed to criticise that thought pattern? Am I not allowed to be annoyed that people pit women against each other in competition? I've already said, there is a way you can compare performances. It's just that you can't ignore the cultural and historical significance behind Whitney's performance of the national anthem. That is a stand alone performance, it's the most iconic performance of her career.

You can see in this thread I actually did compare the performances from the start note to the end note, I just don't think you can ignore the context behind the song.

It's disrespectful to say that Gaga "topped" the second most iconic thing in Whitney's entire career mere hours after she sang the anthem, it's part of her legacy and it's one of the things she is most known for. There is a cultural significance placed upon that performance whether people want to acknowledge it or not.

When such important cultural and iconic moments happen, they are stand alone imo. Like I explained to another user, you want to compare and discuss best and worst dressed on the red carpet? Sure, but if 25+ years from now some chick wears a dress made out of lasers and a hat that shoots electricity, you can't come out and say "Well that topped Gaga's meat dress"... Like no. They are two separate and iconic cultural  moments that left a lasting impact. You can stand beside such moments, you can't "top" a cultural phenomenon.


 

 

"There is a difference between those statements. That's because they mean different things"

Absolutely, there is a difference.

I'm not suggesting that people "water down their expression or thoughts" I'm suggesting there is a difference between stating preference and stating that an artist has "topped" another artist. One is an expression of subjective preference and taste and the other is making pitting artists against each other in a competition.

With one, you can recognise the important cultural and iconic performance that was Whitney Houston's representation of the national anthem and the other is a complete dismissal of one of the most culturally significant and iconic performances of the national anthem of our generation.

What I am suggesting is that you can have a preference for what performance you like without pitting them against each other. Whitney's performance is stand alone, it's going to forever be the great standard. You can't overwrite the cultural importance of that performance, you can't top that performance, you can only stand beside such iconic moments and add to them- not top them.

Both examples you gave compared the 2 performances. You're talking utter nonsense.

[llbcherry 591]

8 hours ago, Metamorphosis said:

 

(I cant get rid of that, my tablet is being weird, sorry.)

OK!! Well that was a fun read.....

Seems like 8 pages of fighting between:

"Gaga topped Whitney's performance" vs. "In mhy opinion, Gaga topped Whitney's performance."

Enigma did state, or imply that it was all his (?) opinion. 

Enigma, in the future, just put "in my opinion" in front of every Gaga thought you have.. it would dampen a lot of the arguing.

 

I think Gaga's performance stands alongside the best. In my opinion (see?), it is hard to say it was better than Whitney. If it is true that Whitney's was a studio recording, then I would say fairly, in my opinion, that Gaga sang the best LIVE Super Bowl anthem. Gaga was amazing, to me, it was vocally perfect. Whitney's voice, her belting, her high head voice notes, are perhaps impossible to "top,." And it may be the best version overall. As far as LIVE, I say Gaga is the best. 

Any receipts for Whitney using studio recording?

Anyway, I am only focusing on the performance, not any cultural impact... in my opinion, you can't beat Whitney overall for her version... Gaga would be close runner-up. However, for live vocals only (not counting small broadcast delay), Gaga is the best, to me! She really did such a stellar, incredible job. I don't think she could do any better. I knew she would deliver, but boy oh boy, she exceeded my expectations, and probably a lot of the GP's expectations, too. 2016, the year of Gaga domination.

 

P.s. ShockPop, what is "dope voice?" (I cant quote you, it's all messed up!)