The -now lost- Political Gaga + her Radical Art

[Didymus 32,906]

10 minutes ago, vrajesh said:

I'll can say this, her whole 'ARTPOP' era was messy cuz she wanted to show the world the demise of a pop star.

So Troy just faked his exit?

[Alex C 254]

2 minutes ago, Didymus said:

She did call for the Russia boycott in this era, twice during the same year.

Oh, I'm sorry. I meant to say, that she remained politically silenced through her artistry: Her videos, her lyrics, her melodies.

I really do not know if I should be giving attention to such tweets, because the twitter medium is not enough to substain a political discourse, plus I really don't trust it, in terms of, if she's writing what she writes, or is dictated, "advised". 

[DrewStevens 5,249]

15 minutes ago, Didymus said:

I'm not dictating anything. And I'm not judging her for contradicting herself either, nor am I pretending I never do that myself I'm talking about what annoys me and I have repeated multiple times (exactly for people like you who are just waiting to jump on something to be able to push all the valid points aside - not saying I'm necessarily right, just saying I am bringing good points to back up my opinion, and I know it's nothing more than an opinion) that the only thing that annoys me is giving Gaga wrong credentials.

Do you realize that you're basically Acting like you were completely right by saying that I'm pushing all valid points aside and that your points are good?

If you are not dictating anything then why do you say that Gaga is receiving wrong credentials? 

And please cut the pretentious bullshit with that "exactly for people like you". You can do better.

You have been going on and on about contradiction, maybe you should take your own criticism.

[Reality 66,112]

I'd have to disagree with you on this. While I loved The Fame/Fame Monster eras, that was not Gaga's "radical art". In my opinion, The Fame/Fame Monster had some of the safest songs, when you think of it through an artistic standpoint. Some of her biggest songs had little to no "radical, artistic meaning" or "political agenda": Just Dance, Bad Romance, etc. I mean, are you saying that Just Dance had some sort of metaphysical, philosophical, artistic meaning behind it? It was literally a song you could just dance too, that's it. 

On the terms of how Gaga lost her "political side", she's always had that side of her. She's always been a member and advocate of the LGBT+ Community, look at Poker Face, the song discusses her bisexuality. You cannot tell me that after all that Gaga did as a person and as an artist, that she still isn't a huge figure in the LGBT+ Community. So all of sudden she turned straight, and stopped caring about social issues (heck, she just talked about how women are treated far differently from men at her Billboard: Woman of the Year event)? No. Just because she may not have showcased those social issues during ARTPOP doesn't mean that she doesn't care or has lost her "political side" or "radical art".

Also, in terms of ARTPOP, I don't believe that was her "play-it-safe" album. If she wanted a "play-it-safe" album, she would have just made another Fame/Fame Monster. ARTPOP—if memory serves me right—was an experimental album, and wasn't a "play-it-safe" one at all. And, I'm sorry, but you cannot tell me that this era didn't involve her "radical art". If anything, I think this era showcased the entirety of her "radical art". The songs, and the album in general talk challenge art and make people think differently about art. She even worked with world-renown artists like Jeff Koons and Marina Abramovic. The whole premise of the album was "Art then Pop, not Pop then Art". She wanted art to influence pop, not vice versa. I could go on and on about this topic, but I can already see that this post is long enough. Either way, this album/era defined Gaga: a musician that uses music, art, technology, and fashion and incorporates them, and uses them for her messages. 

And one more thing, promise. Aura, Venus, and MANiCURE don't have these "social commentaries" that you speak of. Aura is about how even though she may wear outlandish outfits, it doesn't change the person that she is, Venus is about "sex, but sex in the most mythological way" a quote from Gaga (she also says it's more psychedelic and "out of this world") and finally MANiCURE is literally about MANiCUREs and getting ready to get meet up with someone to "fool around with", another quote by Gaga. 

Wow. This post is long... 

[Alex C 254]

3 minutes ago, DrewStevens said:

Do you realize that you're basically Acting like you were completely right by saying that I'm pushing all valid points aside and that your points are good?

If you are not dictating anything then why do you say that Gaga is receiving wrong credentials? 

And please cut the pretentious bullshit with that "exactly for people like you". You can do better.

You have been going on and on about contradiction, maybe you should take your own criticism.

You don't have to fight, please don't take it there you 2.

I repeat because it got lost in previous page: Let's discuss this by having in mind that the personal is political, and by analysing and predicting future artistic endeavours of hers. We have nothing better to do these days.

[Togekiss 1,747]

One thing I think OP is missing is that there is a major difference between social commentary and political commentary. Of course they can overlap, but the satire of The Fame was in no way political. It was entirely focused on the entertainment industry and the sex/money/faking-it-till-you-make-it that goes with it.

Born this way was her first real jab at political commentary with an album, and I think she did a fantastic job. She was absolutely the first mainstream artist to unapologetically say it's ok to be transgender (among other things) OUT LOUD. I recall people criticizing her for not being able to write creatively enough to put that into a metaphor, but that was the whole point! It's time to stop euphemising our identities as people and just say the damn words like they aren't dirty already.

[JackTheTripper 866]

Nobody would hold it aginst her, as not being political enough or not being artistic or radical enough, but thats what she was always presenting herself, the problem is that she comes up with these grandiose staments on herself but ts mostly talk, and we rearly se any of that in her work or activity or she contradicts herself.....  i dont think nobody would mind ARTPOP-but she was praising it to heaven how its artistic subversive somthing newer before seen meterpiece, and than calling born this way album of  adacade-after saying something like that is it that weird to have high expectations? Newer the less music and the taste is opinion, and thats why it shouldnt be judged.

however

I am glad that we are talking about this, beacuse, if we are supporting her and giving her our bucks,  why shouldn i critised her when she is lying, and contradicting herself... either stand behng your words with your actions or dont say somthing like that-beacuse im perplaxed, with your constant talk about integrity

[Didymus 32,906]

Just now, DrewStevens said:

Do you realize that you're basically Acting like you were completely right by saying that I'm pushing all valid points aside and that your points are good?

If you are not dictating anything then why do you say that Gaga is receiving wrong credentials? 

And please cut the pretentious bullshit with that "exactly for people like you". You can do better.

You have been going on and on about contradiction, maybe you should take your own criticism.

I don't realize that since I literally said I don't think I'm right and I'm just expressing my own personal opinion And again.. omg like should I even explain myself to someone who won't read my posts properly

I'm not just saying Gaga is receiving wrong credentials, I use actual arguments for that and I never pretended that those arguments built up anything more than my own personal opinion. I don't think I contradicted myself here in any way. Again, I literally said in my last reply to you that I'm only talking about what annoys me, I'm not stupid enough to think that what annoys me should annoy everyone or is some objective "bad thing".

Honestly, if I can't even post my own opinion and literally say (and repeat) that it's JUST my personal point of view.. this is a forum for god's sake. I'm not telling Gaga what to do, I'm just expressing what annoys me about her actions; I'm not dictating what people should be saying about Gaga, I'm just expressing what annoys me about what people say about her.

I don't think I'm wrong when I say that you just push aside all my points. In this thread you haven't properly responded to anyone's post, preferring to just spit out your own perspective without any willingness to actually talk to someone. You're just sitting here being negative for no reason, misinterpreting everything that's been said (that's why I replied to you in the first place) all because you want to say that you disagree and we're doing something wrong here by just sharing opinions

Just do yourself a favor and get the **** out.

[DrewStevens 5,249]

2 minutes ago, Alex C said:

You don't have to fight, please don't take it there you 2.

I repeat because it got lost in previous page: Let's discuss this by having in mind that the personal is political, and by analysing and predicting future artistic endeavours of hers. We have nothing better to do these days.

I'm not going to fight and that wasn't my intention at all. I just don't like when people act superior for no reason and start getting personal without a real motive.

[JackTheTripper 866]

Also is it so wrong of me, for being perplexed when she is crying that she always wanted to be taken seriously for her music and not her body? even to i have seen her boobs and vagina billion times before i learned she  knows  to play piano......  i am not sayinh its bad she is performing naked, its great-but is she really confused with peoples earliest perception of herself? how come we all didnt recognize mozart in her when she was singging abur riding a ****... please

[deeman 189]

I would think ARTPOP contains support for marriage in the imagery in guy turning away from the coffins but this would be a love based marriage rather than a financial or government contract. The new positions in the bedroom would draw me too mention subjects such as conciouse conception you can't get much more political than that. Concious conception from my research can be acheived by ensuring that the partner carresses you as if you were the baby because they are concious of the baby at that time and see you as the co-creator of the baby so you can feel it is right time by the way they carress. It is actually how i define marriage.

[Zilla 13,343]

Let's note about our own lives. Are your visions on life/art/politics the same as they were 10 years ago? Assuming that everyone replying is around age 30 (which I hope) did you have the same views as you did when you were 20? I know for me, I hated the world at 20. Now being almost 30 my view of the world has changed.

In the public eye, it's a lot harder to please everyone. She has been a bit hypocritical in the past, but who hasn't? Maybe her motive was to please everyone because she was forced to under previous influences or she was trying to figure **** out herself but she shouldn't have to have her head in a guillotine by fans that are overly critical of her every move. 

I respect everyone's opinions, but that's wayyyyyyyyyy over the top.

 

[Alex C 254]

8 minutes ago, Zilla said:

Let's note about our own lives. Are your visions on life/art/politics the same as they were 10 years ago? Assuming that everyone replying is around age 30 (which I hope) did you have the same views as you did when you were 20? I know for me, I hated the world at 20. Now being almost 30 my view of the world has changed.

In the public eye, it's a lot harder to please everyone. She has been a bit hypocritical in the past, but who hasn't? Maybe her motive was to please everyone because she was forced to under previous influences or she was trying to figure **** out herself but she shouldn't have to have her head in a guillotine by fans that are overly critical of her every move. 

I respect everyone's opinions, but that's wayyyyyyyyyy over the top.

 

Oh, no; I never spoke of hypocrisy. I'm just discussing her artistry through the years, in conjunction with critical theory. Never in any post of mine I accused her of changing her views. I am talking through a pure political and artistic lens.

[DrewStevens 5,249]

4 minutes ago, Didymus said:

I don't realize that since I literally said I don't think I'm right and I'm just expressing my own personal opinion And again.. omg like should I even explain myself to someone who won't read my posts properly

I'm not just saying Gaga is receiving wrong credentials, I use actual arguments for that and I never pretended that those arguments built up anything more than my own personal opinion. I don't think I contradicted myself here in any way. Again, I literally said in my last reply to you that I'm only talking about what annoys me, I'm not stupid enough to think that what annoys me should annoy everyone or is some objective "bad thing".

Honestly, if I can't even post my own opinion and literally say (and repeat) that it's JUST my personal point of view.. this is a forum for god's sake. I'm not telling Gaga what to do, I'm just expressing what annoys me about her actions; I'm not dictating what people should be saying about Gaga, I'm just expressing what annoys me about what people say about her.

I don't think I'm wrong when I say that you just push aside all my points. In this thread you haven't properly responded to anyone's post, preferring to just spit out your own perspective without any willingness to actually talk to someone. You're just sitting here being negative for no reason, misinterpreting everything that's been said (that's why I replied to you in the first place) all because you want to say that you disagree and we're doing something wrong here by just sharing opinions

Just do yourself a favor and get the **** out.

Oh please you're the one calling the artist that this forum is dedicated to a "dumb and ignorant bimbo" and saying "I said it like this for people like you" but I'm being the negative one? Ok.

It seems impossible to have an argument with you without you getting personal. You have been acting like if everyone who disagrees with your "good" points and your "well" though arguments is not understanding or not even reading them. First you said I probably didn't read the OP, then that "people like me" are just looking to push valid points aside, and now that I don't even read your posts and that I just spit my perspective to avoid an actual argument.

Have you ever thought that maybe people have different perspective about things?

I know that what you post is only your opinion and I never tried to change it or say that it was wrong. The only thing that bothered me at first is that you called Gaga a dumb and ignorant American. After that I didn't have a problem with your point of view about her activism but with the way you try to put down everyone who disagrees with it. Your catty comments about other's argumentative abilities and your use of emoticons really makes your arguments look more like if you were just trying to mock instead of arguing.

[Didymus 32,906]

17 minutes ago, DrewStevens said:

It seems impossible to have an argument with you without you getting personal. You have been acting like if everyone who disagrees with your "good" points and your "well" though arguments is not understanding or not even reading them. First you said I probably didn't read the OP, then that "people like me" are just looking to push valid points aside, and now that I don't even read your posts and that I just spit my perspective to avoid an actual argument.

Have you ever thought that maybe people have different perspective about things?

Well, I have thought of that but too bad that you're not sharing yours

This is literally what you have said on topic:

"You're reading too much into it. The song is a satire and no one would ever write a song like that thinking that the song is appealing for straight men." (about like 1% of the OP, completely ignoring the rest)

"When this thread changed from "what ARTPOP lacked was this" to "let's discuss all the times Gag's was an ignorant stupid white privileged American"? Of course she has double standards and ignores a lot of things. Everyone does it, it's impossible not to do so." (again only focusing on 1% of everything I had posted in three pages and misrepresenting the OP)

After that I quoted you saying that we were discussing a lot more than what you claimed and I gave you a perfectly unpersonal reply where I shared my perspective about contradictions and how you should react to people (or yourself) having them. The only "personal" thing I said there was that you didnt read the OP well, which I based on your first and second post (and which I explained).

You reply, again focusing on a minor part of my post just to basically repeat what you have already said: that I was insulting her and that I had no business doing that. That has been your main argument for two pages now and even when I'm saying that's not what I'm trying to do (and I have said in my posts as well that that's not what I'm trying to do - leads me, again, to the conclusion that you haven't read them) you're just quoting me again saying it is and not just that, I'm also acting superior and dictating what people should do. Talk about getting ****ing personal

I love to talk and discuss things and I quoted you personally to explain my point of view in a very short way because I noticed that you didn't understand what I meant with my posts, and all I got in return was this rude attitude that didn't for one second acknowledge my perspective as valid in any way.

And now agàin I wrote you a reply repeating myself for the third time (that I DO know people have different perspectives and I am MORE THAN HAPPY to discuss them if people read them and respond to my arguments instead of some sentences they pluck out), explaining myself in the shortest way I can, questioning what you're even doing here for me to have to repeat myself over and over again and now again I get this nonsensical reply But I'm the one who can't discuss right?

You haven't even MENTIONED any of my arguments. All you care about is disqualifying every single post I made in this thread because I'm supposedly insulting Gaga and dictating what she should do, when that is not the case at all! You're trying to play the victim now saying I'm not acknowledging your perspective, but bitch you never had a perspective You just said you didn't blame her for being contradicting, end of story and all the rest of your posts is just you being unsatisfied with the way I choose to express myself.

So don't try to act like I didn't ****ing try. I did, over and over again and no matter in how many directions you try to spin it to make me look bad, you're still not winning.

So just accept my advice: don't read this thread lmao. You're clearly not interested in adding to the discussion in a productive way, so honestly, what are you doing here except trying to call me out for something I already told you 10x I didn't try to do?

And as far as the rest of your post goes: that is ****ing bs and you know it. I had many people who disagreed with me in this thread (even the person who made this thread) and we were all perfectly able to have a decent, productive conversation. I have always used well explained arguments to disagree with someone here, including with you.