Lana Del Rey Sort of Regrets Saying Feminism Is Not An Interesting Concept

[craig 680]

My idea of a true feminist is a woman who feels free enough to do whatever she wants.

That;s far more liberating than the sort of "feminism" that is obsessed with female victimhood or following some radical left party line.

[Alcina Dimitrescu 1,156]

 I frankly believe that acting as if equality is truly achieved is more helpful than the pity parties that social movements are and like she said, i believe we are in a society where we can do just that.

 

So they could be an open racist,s-xist,homophobe? 

he's an azealea banks fan so make your own conclusion

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

My idea of a true feminist is a woman who feels free enough to do whatever she wants.

That;s far more liberating than the sort of "feminism" that is obsessed with female victimhood or following some radical left party line.

Most rad fems I know don't even believe in capitalism as a viable political system, the fact that many of them are left-leaning has more to do with them not waging a "war on women" and being generally progressive towards equality compared to the alternatives... things like restricting abortion, contraception, women's reproductive rights, etc...   Its more of a matter of how the cards lay out rather than a strict adherence to a party line   

Also third wave feminism is arguably the most forward thinking type of feminism I don't know why you have air quotes around it. 

[Desperado 2,439]

So they could be an open racist,s-xist,homophobe? 

those arent political views, i didnt say their views on social issues lol

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

 I frankly believe that acting as if equality is truly achieved is more helpful than the pity parties that social movements are and like she said, i believe we are in a society where we can do just that.

 

he's an azealea banks fan so make your own conclusion

What?  

Since when has acting like the problem is fixed and hoping it will go away ever yielded anything positive  

She even said that there is still work to be done there (feminism) only that is not her focus, which is perfectly fine. Not everyone has to be a feminist or an activist or w.e, you do you boo and all that.

Also, there are actual activists on the ground doing things all over the word 24/7 to make this world a better place. Social Movements are Not Pity Parties (buy CryBaby on iTunes) and even more certainly not all teenagers on Tumblr or the likes of that  

[Alcina Dimitrescu 1,156]

Reported for off topic

Anyway, by acting i mean truly behaving. Making the lie become true as someone would say I do not subscribe to the notion that pointing out how separated and wronged you are and were is gonna help anyone integrate, not in the way it's done today. Now like i said, this is off topic and i already said what i had to, so dont address me

[gagaisitalian 3,573]

Her point is clear as day and kudos to her for not giving into all the little justice heroes. 

[Alcina Dimitrescu 1,156]

Her point is clear as day and kudos to her for not giving into all the little justice heroes. 

our avatars look so cute together tbh

[gagaisitalian 3,573]

our avatars look so cute together tbh

I was just thinking that as I scrolled through this thread! 

[Alcina Dimitrescu 1,156]

I was just thinking that as I scrolled through this thread! 

imagine a forum full of them tbh

[StrawberryBlond 14,881]

Can't say I'm surprised that Lana said this. It's not going to stop me being a fan of her music but it saddens me when a woman in this day and age, in a world that has provided women with so much, can think such things. Especially one who is a living embodiment of feminism. Lana wouldn't be allowed to live the way she is today if it hadn't been for feminism. I feel her saying "of course I support feminism, I just didn't mention it because as a woman, it should be obvious" is hasty backtracking. Sexism affects us all, men included. It's a human issue that should always be at the forefront of our thoughts. In contrast to what she believes, I couldn't care less about technological and space advancement, I'd rather focus on evolving humanity, but each to their own. Why shouldn't we care about a human issue that affects us all? Some people's priorities really baffle me.

My idea of a true feminist is a woman who feels free enough to do whatever she wants.

That;s far more liberating than the sort of "feminism" that is obsessed with female victimhood or following some radical left party line.

craig, I like you, but your views of feminism seem a bit uninformed. You seem to categorise all of them as one of two extremes when we're much more diverse than that. I've struggled with many different waves of feminism so I just decided to follow my own personal brand. Third wave feminism is great in lots of ways in that it supports women being independent and being completely equal to a man, but it also has elements that I don't agree with at all. It believes that the route to empowerment is to be practically naked, that sleeping around is ok, that the s-x industry is ok and prostitution should be legalised. I'm all for s-xual expression, but I don't like seeing people getting used, exploited and treated like objects and I feel like a lot of third wave feminism supports stuff that is weirdly anti-women and makes it all about s-x. A woman should be free to do whatever she wants provided it doesn't demean her or makes others feel uncomfortable (it's not ok to openly flirt with men you know are spoken for, for example). Some women claim to be feminists but their actions are doing nothing for the sisterhood. Women view empowerment quite differently from men, I find. Men don't find parading in their underwar to be empowering, but for some reason, women are to taught to believe it's empowering for us. I don't understand how looking and acting like how a man wants you to be could possibly be empowering. I think women should be held to the same standards as men and if men don't feel the need to do something, why should we?

Really, it's not quite fair to say feminism is all about making women victims. A lot of women are real victims of s-xism. You just don't always see it or take into account how much it affects people. Check out the entries sent in to The Everyday Sexism Project - it will stun and sadden you. This is what women go through all the time and it shouldn't be ignored.

 I frankly believe that acting as if equality is truly achieved is more helpful than the pity parties that social movements are and like she said, i believe we are in a society where we can do just that.

Sexism continues because people genuinely believes it doesn't exist anymore or are trying to convince themselves it doesn't because they're too afraid to admit it. In order for things to change, we have to stand up and admit it still happens and it needs to stop. An issue cannot change if you don't draw attention to it and make it clear what you want changed.

[LoveandMagic 1,731]

I can sort of see what she is saying here. We have made such good progress that many females can take such advantage of, to the point where many don't even question a time where it wasn't so. But at the same time, even in 2015, we have politicians and hate groups (masked as "family values" organizations) trying to demean the rationality of women, insert the government in their bedrooms and doctor's offices, control what type of medical care they can receive, and even slander the term "feminism" (like it's something dirty to be, beware of anyone who speaks of "feminists" and "modern feminists" as something vile). 

True Feminism is the recognition that women are just people. We strive to be treated like thinking, rational human beings. Whether that means playing a submissive, more traditional role in relationships and living a fully domestic life, or seeking fullfillment and validation in hard work and talent (career first) or both. As long as a choice is involved and there is a level of respect. Check out the book, The Feminine Mystique. The point is to always have the understanding that females have value in society and can contribute just as much as men. There is no hatred of the male s-x, and the "Feminazi" view of feminist is largely a mysognist construct (though there are a few militant women making a bad name for everyone). There is also no desire to devalue men because true feminists see men as people too. We all contribute.

Now, Lana has built an image around the whole "Daddy" thing. She likes to be submissive, wishful, flirty, melancholy about love, etc,  and sing of such things. That's perfectly fine, that's her art. If the political thought of feminism is something that she doesn't want to discuss or sing about, she shouldn't feel pressured to do so, especially since it can open a huge can of worms and affect the public's reception to her art (which would become highly scrutinized under a microscope) No everyone has to be political or social. It certainly helps when knowledgable and influential people like Gaga do it, but these are not topics that should be paid lip service to. They are to be researched and become fully enveloped in. If she doesn't want to get into the topic, so be it. There are many times I have no desire to talk of political dealings, it hurts my heart too much sometimes to realize how ignorant, stupid, and/or hateful people can be, and to really take a deep look at just how messed up things can get. I don't blame her for not wanting to mess with it. It can become too much, too dark, and too heavy for the soul. Simply put, I can see why feminism wouldn't be an "interesting" concept for her, but likely one she wouldn't take for granted. I believe she did misspeak or has thought about the issue more. At least I hope so. 

[craig 680]

Can't say I'm surprised that Lana said this. It's not going to stop me being a fan of her music but it saddens me when a woman in this day and age, in a world that has provided women with so much, can think such things. Especially one who is a living embodiment of feminism. Lana wouldn't be allowed to live the way she is today if it hadn't been for feminism. I feel her saying "of course I support feminism, I just didn't mention it because as a woman, it should be obvious" is hasty backtracking. Sexism affects us all, men included. It's a human issue that should always be at the forefront of our thoughts. In contrast to what she believes, I couldn't care less about technological and space advancement, I'd rather focus on evolving humanity, but each to their own. Why shouldn't we care about a human issue that affects us all? Some people's priorities really baffle me.

craig, I like you, but your views of feminism seem a bit uninformed. You seem to categorise all of them as one of two extremes when we're much more diverse than that. I've struggled with many different waves of feminism so I just decided to follow my own personal brand. Third wave feminism is great in lots of ways in that it supports women being independent and being completely equal to a man, but it also has elements that I don't agree with at all. It believes that the route to empowerment is to be practically naked, that sleeping around is ok, that the s-x industry is ok and prostitution should be legalised. I'm all for s-xual expression, but I don't like seeing people getting used, exploited and treated like objects and I feel like a lot of third wave feminism supports stuff that is weirdly anti-women and makes it all about s-x. A woman should be free to do whatever she wants provided it doesn't demean her or makes others feel uncomfortable (it's not ok to openly flirt with men you know are spoken for, for example). Some women claim to be feminists but their actions are doing nothing for the sisterhood. Women view empowerment quite differently from men, I find. Men don't find parading in their underwar to be empowering, but for some reason, women are to taught to believe it's empowering for us. I don't understand how looking and acting like how a man wants you to be could possibly be empowering. I think women should be held to the same standards as men and if men don't feel the need to do something, why should we?

Really, it's not quite fair to say feminism is all about making women victims. A lot of women are real victims of s-xism. You just don't always see it or take into account how much it affects people. Check out the entries sent in to The Everyday Sexism Project - it will stun and sadden you. This is what women go through all the time and it shouldn't be ignored.

Sexism continues because people genuinely believes it doesn't exist anymore or are trying to convince themselves it doesn't because they're too afraid to admit it. In order for things to change, we have to stand up and admit it still happens and it needs to stop. An issue cannot change if you don't draw attention to it and make it clear what you want changed.

Feminism is a bit like spiritualuity/religion at this point - there are so many school of thought, some positive, some negative, some mixed (I'm far from any sort of dualism here). Some people's lives are liberated or enriched by their beliefs, which lead them to do good. In other cases, it's the reverse.. 

Back in 70's-80's it was clearer that being feminist was a cool thing. Feminism meant believing women could have any career, equal pay for the same job, keep their own name, or fighting for the right to choose on birth control and abortion. Now these are taken for granted by most reasonable liberal people. much like women having the vote. So not everyone who supports this now feels the need to claim the F word.

Their is an approach to current feminism that focuses on every little petty slight that women face (including much that is ambiguous or that men face too). They mostly aren't remediable by any change of law, and run the risk of making young women feel like paranoid victims who see everything men do though a negative lens. (Some feminist writing in The Guardian is a good example of this.)

I think it's disempowering to see yourself as a victim - especially when you're bright, talented, and relatively privileged (like Lana), and there is no clear legal injustice to address. And if you say Lana should do something for the less privileged, she might do better helping the homeless, or 3rd world women, or speaking against class inequality.

As an artist, Lana has her own vision, and is fascinated with pre-2nd wave feminist times and themes which aren't especially PC. There are types of SJW feminism that would want her to change her themes dramatically before they'd approve, because they think art should be subordinate to politics. Like Marxism of old.

[StrawberryBlond 14,881]

Feminism is a bit like spiritualuity/religion at this point - there are so many school of thought, some positive, some negative, some mixed (I'm far from any sort of dualism here). Some people's lives are liberated or enriched by their beliefs, which lead them to do good. In other cases, it's the reverse.. 

Back in 70's-80's it was clearer that being feminist was a cool thing. Feminism meant believing women could have any career, equal pay for the same job, keep their own name, or fighting for the right to choose on birth control and abortion. Now these are taken for granted by most reasonable liberal people. much like women having the vote. So not everyone who supports this now feels the need to claim the F word.

Their is an approach to current feminism that focuses on every little petty slight that women face (including much that is ambiguous or that men face too). They mostly aren't remediable by any change of law, and run the risk of making young women feel like paranoid victims who see everything men do though a negative lens. (Some feminist writing in The Guardian is a good example of this.)

I think it's disempowering to see yourself as a victim - especially when you're bright, talented, and relatively privileged (like Lana), and there is no clear legal injustice to address. And if you say Lana should do something for the less privileged, she might do better helping the homeless, or 3rd world women, or speaking against class inequality.

As an artist, Lana has her own vision, and is fascinated with pre-2nd wave feminist times and themes which aren't especially PC. There are types of SJW feminism that would want her to change her themes dramatically before they'd approve, because they think art should be subordinate to politics. Like Marxism of old.

A lot of girls and women do take these advances for granted, yes, and that's the problem. How can you do that but claim to be a feminist? We're taught now that equality has been achieved and there's nothing more to fight for and it's wildly untrue.

I'm not advocating being overblown about it. I don't support the idea that it's s-xist for a man to hold the door open (though I find it awkward and would rather we showed the same courtesy for both s-xes) or that it's bad for a man to pay a woman a (polite) compliment. I'm talking about women who have been unquestionably harrassed and assaulted and put down in every way. And this stuff is definitely illegal. So many women are massively uninformed about what s-xual assault is. A lot of them don't report it because they think it's normal or not even assault. There was a part in the Everyday Sexism book where the legal definition of s-xual assault was presented and it shocked the women interviewed because they didn't realise something so "simple" and "normal"  was considered assault and that it could result in jail time. One even said: "According to this, I've been s-xually assaulted around 10 times and I've never reported it once because I thought it was normal." This is really bad for society if we unconsciously raise our girls to believe this.

I'm not saying women should claim to be victims, just merely say "I've endured s-xism." Ask any woman you know - all of them will have a story, probably more than one. You might even be shocked at the severity of some stories. It's not just women in disadvantaged countries who suffer s-xism - there's so much happening in the first world, right under our noses, and we don't bat an eyelid.

Like I said, Lana's views don't make me want to boycott her music, but i just prefer listening to her music than focus on her as a person these days. Her work is hardly completely autobiographical and she is playing a character, so I justify her choices a lot with that reasoning at the end of the day. I just thought she of all people would be more open to feminism.

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

Feminism is a bit like spiritualuity/religion at this point - there are so many school of thought, some positive, some negative, some mixed (I'm far from any sort of dualism here). Some people's lives are liberated or enriched by their beliefs, which lead them to do good. In other cases, it's the reverse.. 

Back in 70's-80's it was clearer that being feminist was a cool thing. Feminism meant believing women could have any career, equal pay for the same job, keep their own name, or fighting for the right to choose on birth control and abortion. Now these are taken for granted by most reasonable liberal people. much like women having the vote. So not everyone who supports this now feels the need to claim the F word.

Their is an approach to current feminism that focuses on every little petty slight that women face (including much that is ambiguous or that men face too). They mostly aren't remediable by any change of law, and run the risk of making young women feel like paranoid victims who see everything men do though a negative lens. (Some feminist writing in The Guardian is a good example of this.)

I think it's disempowering to see yourself as a victim - especially when you're bright, talented, and relatively privileged (like Lana), and there is no clear legal injustice to address. And if you say Lana should do something for the less privileged, she might do better helping the homeless, or 3rd world women, or speaking against class inequality.

As an artist, Lana has her own vision, and is fascinated with pre-2nd wave feminist times and themes which aren't especially PC. There are types of SJW feminism that would want her to change her themes dramatically before they'd approve, because they think art should be subordinate to politics. Like Marxism of old.

I just have two important points to make.

Legislation alone does not create equality. Even where it is illegal to discriminate, it still happens and the attitudes and socialization that people undergo are STILL THERE. Like Strawberry said, hearing the tired old story of "women have rights now! there's nothing more to be done" is just so wildly untrue   Feminism is equality for all genders on not just a political level, but on a social and economic level as well and in those regards there is MUCH to be done  Not everything will be solved by law, in fact most of it won't. Injustice reaches much further than legal standing, that's just maybe the most easily tackleable topic. 

And two: Third Wave Feminism is not about seeing yourself as a victim. I've literally never seen this idea from anyone except those who don't practice it or research it, because its literally so far from reality  I don't see feminists talking about how women (and men) are helpless victims, I see them making change and campaigning for change every single day in a multitude of forms. Feminism is here to tell people to be critical of their surroundings and society, not to scare them with stories of the Patriarchy and objectification and false empowerment  Feminism is not just a movement, but a school of thought and a lens for examining media and society and gender in general, and in those regards, noticing the s-xism in an everyday act is not "silly" its important and indicative of a larger societal or structural trend. It's academia.

In regards to Lana, her comment about not saying that there is no work to be done there (feminism) really said a lot to me. It told me she realizes that feminism and women's rights are important, but that we live in an age and society where some people (including herself) are privileged enough to be able to look past that; to move up Maslow's Hierarchy if I can be so pretentious  It seemed a neutral statement to me. She obviously knows that not every woman can do as she does