Maybe ARTPOP deserved its "underperformance"

[kevinthesheep 2,947]

​I know she is capable of much better. As i said, she is one of her generations' best singer and performer. The fact that ARTPOP underperformed will only make her step up her game. Sometimes, you need to "fail" to regain trust in yourself and succeed after  

​I agree with you, I also think she is capable of more, and I think she is more determined than ever to step it up. But considering what was going on at the time and the state of mind she seemed to be in, I think ARTPOP turned out better than it could have. 

[OBEY 57,109]

It did dissapoint musically, all those rock vibes and 80s feeling, even people around here hated it, to be honest I remember people hating BTW and praising TFM just like now they hate ARTPOP, such a hypocrisy  

​Born This Way was such a grower for me. It was so different than any pop albums i had listen before.
Who knows, maybe like some people say, in more years i'll like more ARTPOP like i used to when it came out!

[djBuffoon 12,115]

I think in the grand scheme of things, ARTPOP needed to flop in order for Gaga to step up her game. I LOVE ARTPOP, but the GP clearly didn't, and maybe it would lead to Gaga making an album that would solidify her legacy and improve her reputation. Just think of all the comeback albums that wouldn't have happened if the previous album didn't flop. Confessions on a Dance Floor wouldn't exist without American Life. Light Years wouldn't exist without Impossible Princess. The Emancipation of Mimi wouldn't exist without Glitter and Charmbracelet.

​I agree with your general sentiment. But the GP didn't hear ARTPOP though. And the two songs that they did get a chance to hear, "Applause" and "Do What U Want", are surprisingly well-liked.

[AmenTheNight 1,084]

ARTPOP was meant to go nowhere, since it's a compilation of two concept eras she had and that she never managed to split. Had she been able to make a choice between those two, maybe the era could have had some cohesiveness.

1/ Rave theme : Aura, Jewels'N'Drugs, Dope, Donatella, Swine, MANiCURE, Mary Jane Holland
2/ Greek mythology/Gods and goddesses, Gaga as Venus the goddess of love : Venus, GUY, Sexxx Dreams, Do What U Want, ARTPOP, Gypsy, Applause (and Donatella to an extent)

+ Fashion! That doesn't fit anywhere. This is the first main problem.

And then came the obvious management problems. I don't mean that the album was meant to flop, but it was meant to be a mess, and as soon as her team started to **** up, the era was doomed. End of the story.

 

[Tommy Monster 846]

​I thought you were serious until this sentence.

Good luck to find 9 songs on BTW worse than Donatella, Dope or J&D  

(Oh and please, Dope is not one of her best work to date. The lyrics, the vocals ... You&I is simply better)

​Yes, I am serious, Donatella is actually one of the stronger tracks on ARTPOP, only just some of you don´t know how to read satire  JnD is a great song, it´s your problem that you don´t like hip-hop, but the song is perfect and its instrumental is just flawless  

Dope is a great ballad, You and I is just tragic 

And, if you want to know the songs from BTW that are actually worse than Fashion! (weakest ARTPOP track), it´s MTN, Bad Kids, ECH, You and I, and quality-wise the bonus tracks 

[Tommy Monster 846]

​Born This Way was such a grower for me. It was so different than any pop albums i had listen before.Who knows, maybe like some people say, in more years i'll like more ARTPOP like i used to when it came out!

​Well, that album dissapointed me big at first listen, while ARTPOP slayed the hell out of me and no chart performance is ever gonna change that first feeling you get from an album well, at least some of us hold those feelings, seems like the majority of this forum doesn´t  

[Head Empty 25,062]

​more often than not, why does she have so many gay and lesbian fans then duh.

The GP mostly straights pass off everything she does as crazy and nonsensical 

Where someone wants to put their genitals does not determine their intellectual understanding of an artist . Plenty of straight people love her to bits, and plenty of gay people don't like her at all. A ton of members on this site are straight as well. It's a stereotype.

Edit: oh my god I made the most horrible mistake in this post, so hopefully nobody noticed what it was before the edit

[djBuffoon 12,115]

ARTPOP was meant to go nowhere, since it's a compilation of two concept eras she had and that she never managed to split. Had she been able to make a choice between those two, maybe the era could have had some cohesiveness.

1/ Rave theme : Aura, Jewels'N'Drugs, Dope, Donatella, Swine, MANiCURE, Mary Jane Holland
2/ Greek mythology/Gods and goddesses, Gaga as Venus the goddess of love : Venus, GUY, Sexxx Dreams, Do What U Want, ARTPOP, Gypsy, Applause (and Donatella to an extent)

+ Fashion! That doesn't fit anywhere. This is the first main problem

​Why make a choice? I love that the album covers so much ground, and I don't think that having two themes running concurrently is a bad thing. Gaga is, and has always been, about duplicity. Born This Way had the harder, industrial sounds, but then there were the Whitney/Bruce inspired songs, and the thematic narrative is equally as jumbled.

[OBEY 57,109]

ARTPOP was meant to go nowhere, since it's a compilation of two concept eras she had and that she never managed to split. Had she been able to make a choice between those two, maybe the era could have had some cohesiveness.

1/ Rave theme : Aura, Jewels'N'Drugs, Dope, Donatella, Swine, MANiCURE, Mary Jane Holland
2/ Greek mythology/Gods and goddesses, Gaga as Venus the goddess of love : Venus, GUY, Sexxx Dreams, Do What U Want, ARTPOP, Gypsy, Applause (and Donatella to an extent)

+ Fashion! That doesn't fit anywhere. This is the first main problem.

And then came the obvious management problems. I don't mean that the album was meant to flop, but it was meant to be a mess, and as soon as her team started to **** up, the era was doomed. End of the story.

 

​Omg, you're kinda right with the "Rave" theme and the "greek" thing, i've actually never saw it that way. I agree that it's better to only have one "theme" because it can become quite messy when there's too much stuff going on!

[FFXSoul91 1,098]

I think the best way to sum up the problem with ARTPOP is that it's clear that her full potential was not being utilized on the album for whatever reason.

[AmenTheNight 1,084]

​Why make a choice? I love that the album covers so much ground, and I don't think that having two themes running concurrently is a bad thing. Gaga is, and has always been, about duplicity. Born This Way had the harder, industrial sounds, but then there were the Whitney/Bruce inspired songs, and the thematic narrative is equally as jumbled.

​The difference with BTW is that, even though the album displayed different types of sound, a strong theme line was respected and followed in every song : stadium songs, rebellious, a 80 rock vibe. And the album told a story, the BTWBall honored it with genius.

ARTPOP goes everywhere and ends up being nowhere, and the ArtRAVE barely fixed that up. She could have explored different types of EDM with a whole rave theme (deep house, electro jazz, progressive, tribal ...), and could have told a story through a Venus album (by giving life to planets, mythological stories, gods, etc ...)

She struggled with that concept, and I think she realized too late that she could have made a Goddess of Love theme, since Venus was the last song recorded. She should have taken a longer break to bring more cohesiveness to her era, heal her hip (her dancing wasn't at her top for this era, but we all know why) and deliver an album as cohesive as the others.

+ Let's not forget that almost 1/3 of the album (Aura, Donatella, GUY, MJH) are recycled beats bought to respectively Infected Mushroom, Zedd and Madeon, that were out for a while. Nothing to brag about in terms of sound innovation.

[eifulien 2,954]

​The difference with BTW is that, even though the album displayed different types of sound, a strong theme line was respected and followed in every song : stadium songs, rebellious, a 80 rock vibe. And the album told a story, the BTWBall honored it with genius.

ARTPOP goes everywhere and ends up being nowhere, and the ArtRAVE barely fixed that up. She could have explored different types of EDM with a whole rave theme (deep house, electro jazz, progressive, tribal ...), and could have told a story through a Venus album (by giving life to planets, mythological stories, gods, etc ...)

She struggled with that concept, and I think she realized too late that she could have made a Goddess of Love theme, since Venus was the last song recorded. She should have taken a longer break to bring more cohesiveness to her era, heal her hip (her dancing wasn't at her top for this era, but we all know why) and deliver an album as cohesive as the others.

+ Let's not forget that almost 1/3 of the album (Aura, Donatella, GUY, MJH) are recycled beats bought to respectively Infected Mushroom, Zedd and Madeon, that were out for a while. Nothing to brag about in terms of sound innovation.

​I have to disagree with the first two paragraphs. Born This Way is a jumbled mess and the only album that doesn't flow. It's still awesome but it's definitely with the most fillers. ARTPOP as diverse as it is, has a very pleasant uplifitng flow until Dope when it crashes on purpose and then it reaches a peak with Gypsy and Applause. It is the poetic journey that she said is and I can't understand how so many of you fail to see it!

Ofc, the themes are various and lyrically it is not so united but the cohesiveness stems from the music. Sure there are pop songs, some RnB and hip-hop but everything is wrapped in electronic music. Thematically it's just quite personal for Gaga - we get to hear her personal views on herself, love, s-x, hip-hop, fame and media scrutiny, ARTPOP, men and previous experiences, fashion, weed and finishes with travelling and making her fans happy. 

And now one minute silence for what you said about Aura, GUY and MJH - it was a sin. These have the best production... You will be in my prayers! It might not be too late to save your poor soul!  (don't take offense, tho. It's a joke, let's keep it tidy  )

[Slayer 9,227]

I think ARTPOP is a great album, but when I listened to BTW for the first time in ages recently, I realised it's better overall. I feel more connected when singing along to the songs, because they're about something other than s-x and d--gs and applause, etc.

I certainly don't think ARTPOP deserved all the criticism it received. No, it doesn't hold together as an album very well, but most of the songs are fantastic, IMO. It's just that the songs, and the album theme, are a bit all over the place.

[JazzGa 14,620]

I agree with most of your points, and I still listen to ARTPOP more often than any other gaga album. Thanks for sharing your insightfull post, this is a good example of an album review that gives genuine critique without simply bashing Gaga for being Gaga.

[Wet Fire 7,389]

Blame it on her management. As far as I suspect, Troy advised her to tone down the experimentation level and made her re-record the whole album to make it more radio-friendly. The whole 'creative difference' thing.