garnite 8 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 You can't honestly be equating the political context of Europe with that of places like Syria. I don't think it's hard to understand that if the political context was different (and this brings in the whole history of Western colonialist politics in these areas), terrorist groups like that just wouldn't exist. what links a person in australia with issues that stem from colonialism half way across the world? in what way does the regime in syria cause someone born and bred in london behead someone in the streets? you're giving these creeps way, way too much credit. not just the ones there, experiencing such issues. i can concede that if islam didn't exist or any other religion, something like this still would occur. to this degree? i don't think so. in australia? no. the methods employed, the justification, of course not. religion is empowerment for this. and for some, the entire basis. you underestimate a genuine belief in a god and an afterlife. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 680 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I don't think it's hard to understand that if the political context was different (and this brings in the whole history of Western colonialist politics in these areas), terrorist groups like that just wouldn't exist. It's not just politics though. It says something about Hinduism (vs Islam) that is response to colonial rule, it produced Gandhi and non-violence. Which inspired a Christian, Martin Luther King. Hindu India had the experience of conquest/colonization at the hands of both Islam and Christianity, and I think they'd say the former was much worse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Freud 653 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Thank you. Religion has nothing to do in modern society, it is obsolete and useless. If people want to believe in some sh*t, let them do, but don't let it overflow on society, period. exactly people can believe what they want. Whatever not my person business. But to a point where it overflows and affects my life and daily activities its gone too far. Its so outdated for the values of modern society Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus 34,380 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 what links a person in australia with issues that stem from colonialism half way across the world? in what way does the regime in syria cause someone born and bred in london behead someone in the streets? you're giving these creeps way, way too much credit. not just the ones there, experiencing such issues. i can concede that if islam didn't exist or any other religion, something like this still would occur. to this degree? i don't think so. in australia? no. the methods employed, the justification, of course not. religion is empowerment for this. and for some, the entire basis. I'm not giving anyone credit here. The fact that people who are born and raised in European countries (my own country has the highest number of militants travelling to Syria and coming back, quite probably to plan terrorist attacks in my own area) and feel like they share in the religious/political calling of IS is another very complex phenomenon that can't just be explained by "Islamic motivations caused this" because it's clear from the evidence that that's just not the case. I wasn't trying to make any sort of grand statement, I was just reminding people that portraying world religions as static, undeveloping, isolated from any political/social/cultural context currents and picking the "worst" one is just misleading to about everyone who doesn't know much about these things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garnite 8 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I'm not giving anyone credit here. The fact that people who are born and raised in European countries (my own country has the highest number of militants travelling to Syria and coming back, quite probably to plan terrorist attacks in my own area) and feel like they share in the religious/political calling of IS is another very complex phenomenon that can't just be explained by "Islamic motivations caused this" because it's clear from the evidence that that's just not the case. I wasn't trying to make any sort of grand statement, I was just reminding people that portraying world religions as static, undeveloping, isolated from any political/social/cultural context currents and picking the "worst" one is just misleading to about everyone who doesn't know much about these things. it just looks like you're looking for ways to blame yourself and us entirely for what they are doing. i don't think that is clear from the evidence that it's not the case. they don't waste any opportunity to not talk about god or islam. their flags have it written on it. it's in every statement. it's in their name. they can't stress it enough. but for some, it all goes back to unfair conditions to literally strangers with nothing in common except their... religion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus 34,380 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 It's not just politics though. It says something about Hinduism (vs Islam) that is response to colonial rule, it produced Gandhi and non-violence. Which inspired a Christian, Martin Luther King. Hindu India had the experience of conquest/colonization at the hands if both Islam and Christianity, and I think they'd agree the former was much worse. Don't take my posts out of the context of the conversation, please. I was referring only to Syria and the anti-Western ideals IS publicly promotes, countering someone who tried to equate European and Middle Eastern politics. The conquest issue is another one of those complicated topics, since conquest and colonization was an essential part of the culture Islam was created in. This is not an Islamic invention. That doesn't mean that it's not part of Islam, but I still think it's unreasonable to separate religiously motivated people from their cultural heritage and their political contexts. I don't see why anyone would do that, except if he were trying to manipulate history for some questionable purpose. it just looks like you're looking for ways to blame yourself and us entirely for what they are doing. i don't think that is clear from the evidence that it's not the case. they don't waste any opportunity to not talk about god or islam. their flags have it written on it. it's in every statement. it's in their name. they can't stress it enough. but for some, it all goes back to unfair conditions to literally strangers with nothing in common except their... religion. I'm not blaming Westerners at all, I just said that the political situation in this case (and the presence of the West in the Middle East) is essential to the discussion. I'm not interested in making any claims about responsibility, I'm smart enough to know that's just not how history is shaped. But if you're not even gonna mention the political context of IS, then why bother discussing it at all, that was my point and no other. And of course religious motivations are at the forefront here, that's how their acts are justified and how IS manages to find people willing to fight for their cause. But does the discussion end there? I don't think so Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsdominik 16,845 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I'm honestly ao scared right now because of what happens right now! What if they have planned more attacks like this for the next days! This could happen everywhere around the world! Also this was so unexpected! :cry: Please do me a favor and hug all your loved ones today! You never know what could happen the next day Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake 7,385 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Guys stop arguing (or having a heated discussion, whichever you prefer). This isn't the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeedTax 280 Posted December 15, 2014 Author Share Posted December 15, 2014 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAMROD 117,508 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Unrelated, there was a siege in apartment complex in Dampoort, Ghent, Belgium just few moments ago also. 4 armed men, 3 have surrendered, 1 still left. It is unknown if this is related attack to Sydney yet. (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ✧*:･ﾟ ˢᵖᵉᵉᵈ ᵃⁿᵈ ʷᵉⁱᵍʰᵗ (*´艸｀*) ♡♡♡ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsdominik 16,845 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I'm so afraid they might get hurt I don't even want to think of that! Dear God help these poor innocent people :cry: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake 7,385 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kww2PomzyI0 This youtube user has uploaded 3 videos from the hostages. Very scary Don't share these videos. The police has urged people not to share them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus 34,380 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Unrelated, there was a siege in apartment complex in Dampoort, Ghent, Belgium just few moments ago also. 4 armed men, 3 have surrendered, 1 still left. It is unknown if this is related attack to Sydney yet. Belgian police confirmed that it has nothing to do with terrorism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAMROD 117,508 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Don't share these videos. The police has urged people not to share them. Whats the reasoning? (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ✧*:･ﾟ ˢᵖᵉᵉᵈ ᵃⁿᵈ ʷᵉⁱᵍʰᵗ (*´艸｀*) ♡♡♡ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake 7,385 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Whats the reasoning? I have no clue, they're just not to be shared. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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