brizoda 4,191 Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 i predict that this fórum don't last for long Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lego 44,165 Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 That Ashkelon mayor is a disgrace. I don't believe that can actually pass. There were a ton of articles about the outrage from that suggestion... We'll see if he wins his next election I guess. In any case, his views are a lot more moderate than the ones shared in Simon post, which is quite scary. They're all nuts. :cry: That poll was also 58% of people in Ashkelon, which is very different from "Israel", since they have been a major target from rockets, and I believe the more rural communities tend to be less moderate, as in the US. Terribly sad about the teacher, though; he should definitely lose his job. I will be watching that story quite carefully. Calling it a "new law" is incredibly misleading because it has not passed, and is very unlikely to. ;) Careful about your phrasing! Israel is also far more democratic than Hamas, so using "democracy" in quotes is totally meaningless. You should really stop posting cases of individual racism and thinking it strengthens your argument. How does that strengthen your argument when there are racist individuals everywhere in this world? If you want to prove a point, you should try to use politicians at least or people who actually matter, and I'm sure that won't be hard for you to find. Would be nice if you replied to the post where I actually quoted you and asked you something, instead you feel need to come in defense of Noam. After all the preaching to me, you don't have any problem with Simon's way of ''discussing'' and you even refer to his post, full of propaganda posters without any links to verify if these things were said and the translation or context in which they're said. Some of them are not even that bad, ''Stop negotiating with the enemy. We will not recognize Israel''- Ismail Haniyeh, oh so crazy statement. Does any Israeli politician recognize Palestine? ''Time for Jihad'' - Fathi Hamad, Jihad means struggle(spiritual) and can also mean armed struggle, they are in war with Israel, what is so weird? Not much different from extremist Orthodox rabbis or Right wing Israeli politicians statements or extremists from Golani Brigade during Gaza aggression. Hamas has both political and military wing, and they don't all necessary agree with each other. This is the statement from Khaled Meshal from August 2014 during aggression on Gaza: "Our view is that soldiers and settlers on the West Bank are aggressors, and they are illegally living in this occupied and stolen land," he added. "And the right to resist is the right of Palestinians." "We are not a religious, violent group," Meshal said, calling the Islamic State a "totally different phenomenon. We are fighting against aggression in our land." "We do not target civilians, and we try most of the time to aim at military targets and Israeli bases," Meshal said. "But we admit that we have a problem. We do not have sophisticated weapons. We do not have the weapons available to our enemy … so aiming is difficult. We do promise you, though, that we will try in the future and we will warn people … We have given warnings to Israeli civilians. We promise that if we get more precise weapons, we will only target military targets." http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.612039 Again, you don't see anything wrong with Simon's post, as he says ''Europe will really want to recognize this?'', so you don't agree that Palestine should even have a country, correct? Because of statements of few people? And ''this'', makes it seem like all Palestinians are bloodthirsty terrorists who don't deserve own state, in the same way Israel shouldn't be recognized or shouldn't even exist because of its own extremists. EXCXSXE: that poll was also 58% of people in Ashkelon, which is very different from "Israel", since they have been a major target from rockets, and I believe the more rural communities tend to be less moderate, as in the US. Not according to Chemi Shalev, US Editor of Haaretz : 58% of Jewish Israelis https://twitter.com/ChemiShalev/status/535494350692941824 Interesting how you excuse extremism of people from Ashkelon because of the rockets, but you expect all Palestinians to be moderate when they are bombed and killed in thousands every few years (Gaza) and humiliated, abused and killed on daily basis (both west Bank and Gaza). Double standards. And he has support Israel’s housing and construction minister Uri Ariel declared his support for Shimoni’s decision to bar Palestinian construction workers in Israeli schools. “It’s not racist in my view, I think that in such times, special means are taken, and this is one of the means,†Ariel said, as reported by the Israeli website Galaz. “I suggest that everyone carefully review who is working with him.†Effi Mor, security manager for Ashkelon’s municipality, also backed Shimoni. “In recent days our hotlines have been getting many calls about suspicious movements, fearful mothers, from a broad spectrum of citizens about them not checking if [they are Israeli citizens],†the Galaz article also notes. Israel’s economy minister Naftali Bennett  famous for bragging that he “killed lots of Arabs† denounced Shimoni. “Ninety-nine percent of Israeli Arabs are loyal and want to integrate,†Bennett said. Any condemnation of racism from politicians such as Netanyahu and Bennett  known for their intense participation in anti-Palestinian incitement campaigns  is hollow. In addition to his own incitement and racist threats, Bennett is leader of the Jewish Home (Habeyit Hayehudi) party. Avigdor Lieberman, Israel’s foreign minister, regularly calls for Palestinian citizens of Israel to be forcibly transferred. Last week, Netanyahu lashed out at Palestinian citizens of Israel protesting against the police slaying of 22-year-old Palestinian youth Kheir Hamdan in the Galilee village of Kufr Kana. “Whoever doesn’t respect Israeli law will be punished to the fullest extent,†Netanyahu declared. “I will direct the interior minister to consider stripping the citizenship of those who call for the destruction of the state of Israel.†He also encouraged Palestinians in Israel to go to the occupied West Bank or the besieged Gaza Strip. “To all those who demonstrate against Israel and in favor of a Palestinian state, I say something simple: I invite you to move there; we won’t give you any problem,†he added, according to Haaretz. The anti-Palestinian incitement that starts at the top of levels of the Israeli government has also contributed to the country’s downward spiral of racist frenzy. EXCXSXE: Terribly sad about the teacher, though; he should definitely lose his job. I will be watching that story quite carefully. He apologized (it was meant for different whatsapp group,lol) and that's it. I don't think you'll hear about it anymore. EXCXSXE: Calling it a "new law" is incredibly misleading because it has not passed, and is very unlikely to. The unlikely part, is your own personal wish. You don't know what will happen. And even if it doesn't pass, the damage is already done. As Noam asked to show racism and discrimination from ''important'' people, where do you get more important than Netanyahu? Didn't he propose Jewish state nation bill? There you go. Netanyahu tells Knesset: I'm determined to pass Jewish nation-state bill Speaking about the controversial bill, PM questions why many support a Palestinian state but object to spelling out Israel's role as Jewish state. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is determined to pass the controversial Jewish nation-state bill, he told the Knesset on Wednesday, saying that in Israel there is too much of a focus on individual civil rights at the expense of the rights of the Jewish state. Netanyahu, who was interrupted frequently by jeering and shouting from the lawmakers in attendance, acknowledged that non-Jews must have equal rights, a statement lacking in his version of the bill, but said the country as a whole must be a Jewish state. http://www.haaretz.com/1.628644 Bennett to U.S.: Jewish nation-state bill is our affair, don't intervene After U.S. State Department urges Israel to 'stick to its democratic principles,' right-wing politicians lash back. http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.628436 EXCXSXE: Israel is also far more democratic than Hamas, so using "democracy" in quotes is totally meaningless. Hamas is not a a state, and they don't have a state. And Israel is showing in practice for over 60 years how ''democratic'' it is. EXCXSXE: You should really stop posting cases of individual racism and thinking it strengthens your argument. How does that strengthen your argument when there are racist individuals everywhere in this world? If you want to prove a point, you should try to use politicians at least or people who actually matter, and I'm sure that won't be hard for you to find. Racist individuals in the rest of the democratic world don't get to keep their job if they have a shop with sign ‘We don’t employ (or serve) _____ (insert ethnic minority) here,’ Can you imagine ''We don't employ Jews here'' somewhere in present day Austria? The signs reminds of some signs in the past. Is this where Israel is going? Recently Jewish minority in Belgium was demanding firing of a teacher because of anti-semitic remarks on Facebook, let's see what will happen with the Jewish teacher we spoke about. And the newspaper in Israel seems to imply these are not just few individual cases "Fear Effect: Arab Workers Being Fired Nationwide" - lead headline in Israel's best-selling Yedioth Ahronoth Right wing activists, with lots of followers, posting videos of stimulating blowing up Al Aqsa, isn't really something that should be ignored. What is Israeli state doing about these fanatics? And it is not everyone's right to promote racism and call for violence and to discriminate. Not in a democratic state at least. and we see the fruits of it, from this https://twitter.com/davidsheen/status/532673717340348417 to this Noor was murdered tonight in Nablus; an Israeli bus driver ran him over http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=742711 The driver was arrested. They managed to not shoot and kill the driver this time. I wonder why? Will Netanyahu demolish the driver's house? Will they arrest his family members? Will Benny Levy be arrested for his post on FB for incitement and spreading violent propaganda? Stay tuned. Palestinians already get arrested http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/11/26/387548/israel-to-nab-online-palestine-activists/ #inequalityUnderTheLaw FreePalestine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lego 44,165 Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 I ask myself where was David Sheen when 5 Israelis were butcherd last week. Some people are so obssesed with hating on Israel.He lives in Israel. He's not any less Jew than you because he speaks out against racism and discrimination. FreePalestine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXCXSXE 0 Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Would be nice if you replied to the post where I actually quoted you and asked you something, instead you feel need to come in defense of Noam. After all the preaching to me, you don't have any problem with Simon's way of ''discussing'' and you even refer to his post, full of propaganda posters without any links to verify if these things were said and the translation or context in which they're said. Some of them are not even that bad, ''Stop negotiating with the enemy. We will not recognize Israel''- Ismail Haniyeh, oh so crazy statement. Does any Israeli politician recognize Palestine? ''Time for Jihad'' - Fathi Hamad, Jihad means struggle(spiritual) and can also mean armed struggle, they are in war with Israel, what is so weird? Not much different from extremist Orthodox rabbis or Right wing Israeli politicians statements or extremists from Golani Brigade during Gaza aggression. Hamas has both political and military wing, and they don't all necessary agree with each other. This is the statement from Khaled Meshal from August 2014 during aggression on Gaza: Again, you don't see anything wrong with Simon's post, as he says ''Europe will really want to recognize this?'', so you don't agree that Palestine should even have a country, correct? Because of statements of few people? And ''this'', makes it seem like all Palestinians are bloodthirsty terrorists who don't deserve own state, in the same way Israel shouldn't be recognized or shouldn't even exist because of its own extremists. EXCXSXE: that poll was also 58% of people in Ashkelon, which is very different from "Israel", since they have been a major target from rockets, and I believe the more rural communities tend to be less moderate, as in the US. Not according to Chemi Shalev, US Editor of Haaretz : 58% of Jewish Israelis https://twitter.com/ChemiShalev/status/535494350692941824 Interesting how you excuse extremism of people from Ashkelon because of the rockets, but you expect all Palestinians to be moderate when they are bombed and killed in thousands every few years (Gaza) and humiliated, abused and killed on daily basis (both west Bank and Gaza). Double standards. And he has support EXCXSXE: Terribly sad about the teacher, though; he should definitely lose his job. I will be watching that story quite carefully. He apologized (it was meant for different whatsapp group,lol) and that's it. I don't think you'll hear about it anymore. EXCXSXE: Calling it a "new law" is incredibly misleading because it has not passed, and is very unlikely to. The unlikely part, is your own personal wish. You don't know what will happen. And even if it doesn't pass, the damage is already done. As Noam asked to show racism and discrimination from ''important'' people, where do you get more important than Netanyahu? Didn't he propose Jewish state nation bill? There you go. EXCXSXE: Israel is also far more democratic than Hamas, so using "democracy" in quotes is totally meaningless. Hamas is not a a state, and they don't have a state. And Israel is showing in practice for over 60 years how ''democratic'' it is. EXCXSXE: You should really stop posting cases of individual racism and thinking it strengthens your argument. How does that strengthen your argument when there are racist individuals everywhere in this world? If you want to prove a point, you should try to use politicians at least or people who actually matter, and I'm sure that won't be hard for you to find. Racist individuals in the rest of the democratic world don't get to keep their job if they have a shop with sign ‘We don’t employ (or serve) _____ (insert ethnic minority) here,’ Can you imagine ''We don't employ Jews here'' somewhere in present day Austria? The signs reminds of some signs in the past. Is this where Israel is going? Recently Jewish minority in Belgium was demanding firing of a teacher because of anti-semitic remarks on Facebook, let's see what will happen with the Jewish teacher we spoke about. And the newspaper in Israel seems to imply these are not just few individual cases "Fear Effect: Arab Workers Being Fired Nationwide" - lead headline in Israel's best-selling Yedioth Ahronoth Right wing activists, with lots of followers, posting videos of stimulating blowing up Al Aqsa, isn't really something that should be ignored. What is Israeli state doing about these fanatics? And it is not everyone's right to promote racism and call for violence and to discriminate. Not in a democratic state at least. and we see the fruits of it, from this https://twitter.com/davidsheen/status/532673717340348417 to this Noor was murdered tonight in Nablus; an Israeli bus driver ran him over http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=742711 The driver was arrested. They managed to not shoot and kill the driver this time. I wonder why? Will Netanyahu demolish the driver's house? Will they arrest his family members? Will Benny Levy be arrested for his post on FB for incitement and spreading violent propaganda? Stay tuned. Palestinians already get arrested http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/11/26/387548/israel-to-nab-online-palestine-activists/ #inequalityUnderTheLaw #titfortat I stopped reading after you accused me of not believing Palestine should have a country/recognition. I've stated many times that I believe this is necessary for eventual peace. I have not shown any support to anyone in this thread who argues one-sidedly. You misunderstood my last post, once again. Though I reply to you often, I am speaking to everyone in this thread who seems to think they have been "awoken" and have somehow managed to understand a 70 year old conflict without acknowledging both sides (and likely without a university degree). I choose to reply to you because no one else will, and your style of argument and your self righteousness [and lack of interest in peace(ful discussion)] are more offensive than anything. You can hate on the other people in this thread, but you have an equally aggressive and stubborn stance as all of them, with several times the aggression and volume. There is no discussing with you because you refuse to listen, budge, or acknowledge anything other than Palestinian sympathy. That's an issue on a discussion board. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lego 44,165 Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 https://twitter.com/davidsheen/status/536907706427129856 Jerusalem mayor likens Ashkelon’s anti-Arab move to 1930s Germany Nir Barkat lauds Har Nof synagogue for holding onto its Arab employee, says Israel mustn’t generalize about a whole population Barkat called Shimoni’s move “the wrong decision†and “irresponsible,†telling Army Radio that “You can’t outlaw an entire public, as was done in Nazi Germany 70 years ago.†“I can’t but think of where we were 70 years ago in Europe,†Barkat said. “We mustn’t generalize like the generalization against Jews then. Here in Jerusalem we have tens of thousands of Arab workers.†http://www.timesofisrael.com/jerusalem-mayor-likens-ashkelons-anti-arab-move-to-1930s-germany/?utm_source=The+Times+of+Israel+Daily+Edition&utm_campaign=c661f829cd-2014_11_22&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_adb46cec92-c661f829cd-54623881 FreePalestine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lego 44,165 Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 #titfortat Is that your response for the killed Palestinian? I stopped reading after you accused me of not believing Palestine should have a country/recognition. I've stated many times that I believe this is necessary for eventual peace. Ok, I won't read your posts in future either. I won't bother to reply anymore. FreePalestine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lego 44,165 Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 I actually make an effort, I take time to reply and refute almost every point, I post references with links and quotes, and I get ''I stopped reading at...''. 'Cause that is an academic response. Ok, lesson learned. FreePalestine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolev 867 Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 He lives in Israel. He's not any less Jew than you because he speaks out against racism and discrimination. So? When did I say so? the fact the he's a Jew doesn't make him "unqualified" to be obssesd with Israel. Pluralism, that's how things works in democracies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXCXSXE 0 Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Is that your response for the killed Palestinian? Ok, I won't read your posts in future either. I won't bother to reply anymore. Tit for tat is the way most are arguing in this thread. You guys have gone back and forth with deaths and terrorist incidents and racism from both sides. That is the farthest thing from academic: it's bickering, and definitely not an intelligent discussion. You also just tried to portray me as heartless, once again, and I do not think that was because you misunderstood. It's an intentional tactic you've used over and over again, and I will not have you undermine my humanity to support what you think is the truth. I'm bickering too, though, let's be serious. I thought I could make a positive difference in this thread and I obviously cannot. This is one of the most heated debate topics of all time, and I really should have known better than to think I could get through to anyone. :P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmm 979 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Yesterday was the UN's designated "International day of solidarity with the Palestinian People" and tomorrow there'll be some meeting thing at the UN headquarters. http://www.un.org/en/events/palestinianday/ Also, several Barclays banks had to be closed in the UK following sit in protests due to Barclay's investment in some Israeli military producer or something like that... http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/541686/Barclays-Israel-Palestine-protest-branch-closed France will vote on non-binding support of Palestine on Tuesday (expected to pass easily) and their foreign minister has reiterated a UN-proposed two year deadline for peace-talks, with France recognising Palestine officially at that point if no bilateral agreement has been made at that point (Idk if I've summarised that right, sorry ) http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/11/french-mps-debate-recognition-palestine-2014112881129362342.html Jordan is also preparing a draft resolution for UN recognition of Palestine but I'm not sure how that works if someone could elaborate Does the USA's veto power work over that or is it just a case of majority rules? If that's the case, if France and the UK are being too weak to vote in line with what their people want, I'd hope they'd just abstain... - Interesting article about the similarities between the part of Ireland I'm from and Palestine. Not that I'm trying to compare the two in terms of casualties or anything, Catholics here never faced the same extremes as Palestinians did during the summer http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/david-cronin/exporting-repression-ulster-palestine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolev 867 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Breaking: Palestinian terrorist stabbing 2 Israelis in a supermarket east to Jerusalem, one of them paramedic who tried to resist. Terrorist shot by guard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmm 979 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 If what I'm reading is right; Ireland now officially recognises the State of Palestine; http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1210/666037-palestine-motion/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByeBye49 161 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Europe will really want to recognize this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolev 867 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Europe will really want to recognize this? Im afraid Europe's new citizens has no problem with what those scums said. Not many Governments in the EU are on the sane side nowadays. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf 590 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 So apparently a Palestinian Minister, Ziad Abou Zeïn, was brutalized to death because he was protesting against exproriation of their lands. Killed on Human Rights Day....but of course some here will explain how these "colonies" are perfectly "legal"! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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