Forbes: Is Cheek to Cheek anything more than a stunt?

[DrewStevens 5,249]

His statement about Tony is bull****.

He is talented and his voice used to be better but obviously his voice is not as good as when he was young.

All big artists are lucky not just him. There are probably thousands of people who are more talented than the artists we like.

This guy needs a reality check or a good **** because he is pressed as ****.

[TimisaMonster 31,073]

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan....they dragged Tony to the abyss of the ocean 

[Allison M 357]

Some of that is funny though :toofunny:

[xoxo cupcakke 4,781]

So Gaga and Tony are appropriating black music with Jazz? Like seriously, by this critic's logic, Frank Sinatra and every white Jazz musician and any rock singer to not be black including the "illustrious" Elvis Presley and bands like Queen all appropriated black music. But no, only Tony and Gaga are guilty and not that girl from Califronia, the one who blasphemed Arabic culture and black culture to seem cool :katy: 

 

 

Get out of here dang critic for being a hypocrite  :madge:

[E24187 614]

Jazz did start in the black community though. Gaga acknowledged that in a tweet a few weeks ago.

Also, it's a little interesting to see some "fans" here who were never into this jazz album a little pressed that it went no.1.

[Morphine Prince 96,393]

Mess. SUCK MY ASS. 

[Willy Wonka 4]

Just because you agree doesn't mean something is right or brilliant.

Some of his statements were ignorant. He's "more educated", so his OPINION on music, which is subjective, must be right? I will remember that next time you disagree with a review of one of your faves or disagree with a good review of Gaga's...because you know that will happen soon enough in the future. ;)  

 

He's absolutely wrong and my original comment in this thread explains just a small part of why he is wrong.

 

In the end, you have your opinion on this article and I have mine. You are free to think this is a brilliant review, and I am free to think it is ridiculous and rather ignorant overall.

Who said I declared (or even thought) that this review was the definitive critique and was the unquestionable truth? I most certainly never did. Apart from the sentiment about Tony, I never even said I agree with him. I said I thought it was a fantastic review. I've read positive reviews that I thought were fantastic. I've read negative reviews that I thought were terrible (hello LA Times). And vice versa. My critical opinion of the review isn't going to change because the critic did or didn't like the album. And that's what I take issue with in the way other people have responded in this thread.

This fan base complains more than any other that I've seen about the way that critics handle their favorite. Nevertheless, this fan base acts with the same level of integrity that they accuse critics of having. If a review is positive, it is celebrated and the author revered. If it is negative, then the author is a hater and is biased and is just jumping on the bandwagon of hate towards Gaga. For a group lamenting about an alleged lack of objectivity in criticism, they seem to absolutely lack objectivity towards criticism.

Once again, other than the Tony assertion, I never said he was right. But he's very educated and has a great deal of experience with the topic of which he speaks, so he's anything but ignorant. You still conflate opinion with critique though. I can love something and still critique it.

Take Mean Girls. One of my favorite movies ever. I can easily argue that it portrays high school women as shallow, promiscuous, and saboteurs;it portrays gay men as as-xual, one-dimensional, sassy sidekicks; it trivializes teacher-student s-xual relations and that power dynamic. That's not a negative opinion. That's a critique. It's easily one of my top three movies. I have a very high opinion of it. So no, I don't think his opinion is more valid because he's educated; I think his critique is more valid because he's educated. Note that never, ever did I say that his education made his "opinion" more "right". That is a complete misportrayal of my comments. I was simply pointing out that I've never seen you call anyone who you agreed with "ignorant". Is that label only reserved for those you disagree with?

Most of all though, I never even singled you out. I didn't take issue with your post (although I take issue with the flawed logic in it). I wasn't even referencing you (although if you identified with my post, I probably should have referenced you). You disagreed with a statement the author made and you refuted it. You may have called him ignorant in an attempt to dismiss him, but by using evidence to refute his assertion, you aren't dismissing him. You're engaging with his argument on a much deeper and more mature level than most of the other people in this thread.

My point is that it's easy (not to mention immature)to call someone stupid or ignorant or biased when someone says something that you don't like. It's another thing to actually critically respond with a relevant and well-articulated rebuttal.

So your conclusion is right. We're free to each have our own opinion because we've each actually critically responded to the assertions made in it. Neither of us looked at it, didn't like it, hurled insults at the author, and left it at that. So I'm glad you agree with me.

 

[codymonster 8,000]

Let's say this all was a gimmick. It's not, but let's say. She still sounds amazing. She still is singing with a legend. And she still has a number one album. So why do they care? Who are they to decide it's not "real." Stfu, enjoy the music, or stfu, and don't listen to it. It's so simple :later:

[daviddarko 144]

Let it all out sis  :madge:  :madge:

 

This is not the right section, its Reviews plus  We are celebrating. Please, move this shi*t.

Thank you Mum

[MonsterMum 2,532]

This is not the right section, its Reviews plus  We are celebrating. Please, move this shi*t.

Thank you Mum

 

Huh? Move what where?

[daviddarko 144]

Huh? Move what where?

 

To Reviews!!!

 

I cant with the Mods too 

[MonsterMum 2,532]

To Reviews!!!

 

I can't! lol. Im sure a mod can do it if they feel it needs to go there. 

[AgusPop 4,064]

We are so Happy and the Mods keep this **** in front of everything.

Edit: Thank you Ashley   You are my favorite :)

[Whispering 18,865]

Who said I declared (or even thought) that this review was the definitive critique and was the unquestionable truth? I most certainly never did. Apart from the sentiment about Tony, I never even said I agree with him. I said I thought it was a fantastic review. I've read positive reviews that I thought were fantastic. I've read negative reviews that I thought were terrible (hello LA Times). And vice versa. My critical opinion of the review isn't going to change because the critic did or didn't like the album. And that's what I take issue with in the way other people have responded in this thread.

This fan base complains more than any other that I've seen about the way that critics handle their favorite. Nevertheless, this fan base acts with the same level of integrity that they accuse critics of having. If a review is positive, it is celebrated and the author revered. If it is negative, then the author is a hater and is biased and is just jumping on the bandwagon of hate towards Gaga. For a group lamenting about an alleged lack of objectivity in criticism, they seem to absolutely lack objectivity towards criticism.

Once again, other than the Tony assertion, I never said he was right. But he's very educated and has a great deal of experience with the topic of which he speaks, so he's anything but ignorant. You still conflate opinion with critique though. I can love something and still critique it.

Take Mean Girls. One of my favorite movies ever. I can easily argue that it portrays high school women as shallow, promiscuous, and saboteurs;it portrays gay men as as-xual, one-dimensional, sassy sidekicks; it trivializes teacher-student s-xual relations and that power dynamic. That's not a negative opinion. That's a critique. It's easily one of my top three movies. I have a very high opinion of it. So no, I don't think his opinion is more valid because he's educated; I think his critique is more valid because he's educated. Note that never, ever did I say that his education made his "opinion" more "right". That is a complete misportrayal of my comments. I was simply pointing out that I've never seen you call anyone who you agreed with "ignorant". Is that label only reserved for those you disagree with?

Most of all though, I never even singled you out. I didn't take issue with your post (although I take issue with the flawed logic in it). I wasn't even referencing you (although if you identified with my post, I probably should have referenced you). You disagreed with a statement the author made and you refuted it. You may have called him ignorant in an attempt to dismiss him, but by using evidence to refute his assertion, you aren't dismissing him. You're engaging with his argument on a much deeper and more mature level than most of the other people in this thread.

My point is that it's easy (not to mention immature)to call someone stupid or ignorant or biased when someone says something that you don't like. It's another thing to actually critically respond with a relevant and well-articulated rebuttal.

So your conclusion is right. We're free to each have our own opinion because we've each actually critically responded to the assertions made in it. Neither of us looked at it, didn't like it, hurled insults at the author, and left it at that. So I'm glad you agree with me.

 

 

No, they don't. I've been a participant in enough fan bases to know this is completely untrue. I've been on a music forum for years and I can tell you that this is typical behavior of fans for anyone. Gaga fans are in no way unique to this "stan culture" that you speak of. In fact, you are just as guilty of that thinking as anyone else when it comes to your faves. The faves always get a special pass from their followers, and that includes even you.

 

I responded with an actual relevant an educated, factual rebuttal. Once again, check my original comment in this thread.

I called him ignorant due to the some of the statements he made, which I find to be ignorant when looking at Tony's history and overall skill level in this particular genre of music.

 

You are correct, we are free to have our opinions on this subjective review, so I'm happy we agree on that matter.

[freebit 6,084]

I hate it when the media are over-paranoid. Like... Can't you just enjoy something for what it is, without overthinking everything? Just enjoy the music and shut up ffs

Same. That's my problem with most thinkpieces in general.

So Gaga and Tony are appropriating black music with Jazz? Like seriously, by this critic's logic, Frank Sinatra and every white Jazz musician and any rock singer to not be black including the "illustrious" Elvis Presley and bands like Queen all appropriated black music.

Yeah, that's pretty much the gist of the situation. Those artists still get criticism every now and then (and posthumously). These musical genres have evolved so much over time that it's a moot point to get offended and single out Bennett and Gaga now. Diana Krall, Michael Buble are two white artists who currently perform and profit from the genre and I have yet to see any editorial dragging either of them over this.

He makes sense in some parts, but he is definitely biased also... well, not as biased as all of you saying they're pressed now but you always praise them when they put Gaga among the top positions in the Celebrity 100!

Forbes isn't a monolith tho. There's different people who work on basic information such as those lists and people who do opinion pieces for the site. People can rant or praise accordingly, not a hard concept to grasp.