StrawberryBlond 15,568 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I don't want them to go independent for everyone's sake but I would love to watch Scotland crumble in its arrogance too Please don't judge the minority by a few loudmouths. We don't all want the same thing. This is a country's future we're talking about: now is not the time for jokes. Hearing someone would be happy to see my country crumble is not easing my nerves at this time. I’m actually creasing that you think your facts are more legitimate, are you seriously trying to turn a blind eye to all of the scaremongering propaganda and INSANELY disproportionate lines that the no campaign has been spreading? they leap from one ridiculous lie to the next, once the previous has been disproved. literally, go look it up. you may say scotland is being too ambitious and is unprepared, but at least the yes campaign isn’t actually LYING. they wouldn't even let those kids say they were Yes voters on national TV, that's how corrupt, desperate and biased everything is. the bottom line: we at least have a chance for change if we become independent. remaining in the union can only bring further negative impact on scotland. "Scaremongering" is a yes voter's favourite word. The one good thing that'll come out of the end of all this is that I won't have to hear that word everyday. It's the word yes voters trot out every single time they're faced with the harsh reality of the situation. It's the adult equivalent of a kid putting their fingers in their ears and chanting "la la la la la." It's dangeous to be that blinded by your passion. All the experts have pointed out the obvious flaws in the yes campaigns claims, yet the public, who are not experts, think they know better? If you think the yes campaign has never lied, you just need to read the papers everyday to see yet another hole pointed out in Salmond's theories and pointing out all the questions that he's not given a straight answer to. It's ridiculous, the vote is less than 3 days away and the yes campaign still can't given definitive answers that hold up in reality. How can anyone vote for them without having the first clue about what they're actually going to get out of it? I don't know what kids you were talking about, but if they actually were kids, as in children, as in unable to vote, then there's nothing corrupt about that, you can't take a kid's view of politics seriously. I don't like how the yes voters have been taking their kids to rallies when they don't even know about politics yet. Bringing kids into politics is sinister. How do you know staying within the union will just cause a negative impact on Scotland? If you think the future of an independent Scotland is uncertain, why do you know that bad things will happen if we stay in the union? Why are you certain about one, but not the other, why can't you be certain about both? Something I've noticed with yes voters is that they're under the impression that the only reason they're not getting what they want out of life is because someone is stopping them from achieveing it. But it's really misguided to think that way. We'll realise that the union has helped us in ways that we didn't even acknowledge if we go independent. I can see how it'll all pan out - riots in the streets, strikes, protest marches with voters from both sides bearing banners reading "We did not vote for this." You've mentioned a few times that you want to go independent because you're sick of seeing political parties rise to power that we didn't vote for. Well, if Scotland wins independence with just 51%, it'll be a decision that 49% of the country didn't vote for. Notice the irony? I fear the concept of living in an independent Scotland with the same yes voters who have hurled abuse and intimidation at no voters and vandalised no signs. This is why you don't see no stickers in windows and less likely to hear a no voter speak their views - we're frightened of the repercussions if we don't "conform." Hardly a free, democratic Scotland if that's the case, is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalumGaGa 0 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Please don't judge the minority by a few loudmouths. We don't all want the same thing. This is a country's future we're talking about: now is not the time for jokes. Hearing someone would be happy to see my country crumble is not easing my nerves at this time. "Scaremongering" is a yes voter's favourite word. The one good thing that'll come out of the end of all this is that I won't have to hear that word everyday. It's the word yes voters trot out every single time they're faced with the harsh reality of the situation. It's the adult equivalent of a kid putting their fingers in their ears and chanting "la la la la la." It's dangeous to be that blinded by your passion. All the experts have pointed out the obvious flaws in the yes campaigns claims, yet the public, who are not experts, think they know better? If you think the yes campaign has never lied, you just need to read the papers everyday to see yet another hole pointed out in Salmond's theories and pointing out all the questions that he's not given a straight answer to. It's ridiculous, the vote is less than 3 days away and the yes campaign still can't given definitive answers that hold up in reality. How can anyone vote for them without having the first clue about what they're actually going to get out of it? I don't know what kids you were talking about, but if they actually were kids, as in children, as in unable to vote, then there's nothing corrupt about that, you can't take a kid's view of politics seriously. I don't like how the yes voters have been taking their kids to rallies when they don't even know about politics yet. Bringing kids into politics is sinister. How do you know staying within the union will just cause a negative impact on Scotland? If you think the future of an independent Scotland is uncertain, why do you know that bad things will happen if we stay in the union? Why are you certain about one, but not the other, why can't you be certain about both? Something I've noticed with yes voters is that they're under the impression that the only reason they're not getting what they want out of life is because someone is stopping them from achieveing it. But it's really misguided to think that way. We'll realise that the union has helped us in ways that we didn't even acknowledge if we go independent. I can see how it'll all pan out - riots in the streets, strikes, protest marches with voters from both sides bearing banners reading "We did not vote for this." You've mentioned a few times that you want to go independent because you're sick of seeing political parties rise to power that we didn't vote for. Well, if Scotland wins independence with just 51%, it'll be a decision that 49% of the country didn't vote for. Notice the irony? I fear the concept of living in an independent Scotland with the same yes voters who have hurled abuse and intimidation at no voters and vandalised no signs. This is why you don't see no stickers in windows and less likely to hear a no voter speak their views - we're frightened of the repercussions if we don't "conform." Hardly a free, democratic Scotland if that's the case, is it? Preach sista Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 680 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 putting their fingers in their ears and chanting "la la la la la."If that's the Kylie song for the Yes side, this is definitely the one for Better Together:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgvhvaSQZeE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrawberryBlond 15,568 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 putting their fingers in their ears and chanting "la la la la la." If that's the Kylie song for the Yes side, this is definitely the one for Better Together:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgvhvaSQZeE Haha, I've been thinking of a lot of songs that I'll be happily singing if we stay together. To keep my spirits up as the vote nears, I've been singing Let's Work Together by Canned Heat. And if we win, I'll be singing Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now by Starship for at least a month. Terribly poignant lyrics, especially: "let em say we're crazy, I don't care about that, "let the world around us just fall apart" and "if this world runs out of lovers, we'll still have each other." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 680 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Friendship Cairn on the border:http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/britons-gather-stones-at-scotland-england-border-to-support-the-union-before-vote/2014/09/16/b50f0514-3da9-11e4-b03f-de718edeb92f_story.html?Post+generic=%3Ftid%3Dsm_twitter_washingtonpost Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul 687 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Please don't judge the minority by a few loudmouths. We don't all want the same thing. This is a country's future we're talking about: now is not the time for jokes. Hearing someone would be happy to see my country crumble is not easing my nerves at this time. "Scaremongering" is a yes voter's favourite word. The one good thing that'll come out of the end of all this is that I won't have to hear that word everyday. It's the word yes voters trot out every single time they're faced with the harsh reality of the situation. It's the adult equivalent of a kid putting their fingers in their ears and chanting "la la la la la." It's dangeous to be that blinded by your passion. All the experts have pointed out the obvious flaws in the yes campaigns claims, yet the public, who are not experts, think they know better? If you think the yes campaign has never lied, you just need to read the papers everyday to see yet another hole pointed out in Salmond's theories and pointing out all the questions that he's not given a straight answer to. It's ridiculous, the vote is less than 3 days away and the yes campaign still can't given definitive answers that hold up in reality. How can anyone vote for them without having the first clue about what they're actually going to get out of it? I don't know what kids you were talking about, but if they actually were kids, as in children, as in unable to vote, then there's nothing corrupt about that, you can't take a kid's view of politics seriously. I don't like how the yes voters have been taking their kids to rallies when they don't even know about politics yet. Bringing kids into politics is sinister. How do you know staying within the union will just cause a negative impact on Scotland? If you think the future of an independent Scotland is uncertain, why do you know that bad things will happen if we stay in the union? Why are you certain about one, but not the other, why can't you be certain about both? Something I've noticed with yes voters is that they're under the impression that the only reason they're not getting what they want out of life is because someone is stopping them from achieveing it. But it's really misguided to think that way. We'll realise that the union has helped us in ways that we didn't even acknowledge if we go independent. I can see how it'll all pan out - riots in the streets, strikes, protest marches with voters from both sides bearing banners reading "We did not vote for this." You've mentioned a few times that you want to go independent because you're sick of seeing political parties rise to power that we didn't vote for. Well, if Scotland wins independence with just 51%, it'll be a decision that 49% of the country didn't vote for. Notice the irony? I fear the concept of living in an independent Scotland with the same yes voters who have hurled abuse and intimidation at no voters and vandalised no signs. This is why you don't see no stickers in windows and less likely to hear a no voter speak their views - we're frightened of the repercussions if we don't "conform." Hardly a free, democratic Scotland if that's the case, is it? Except literally every lie by the No campaign that claims to poke holes in Salmond's claims has a massive hole of its own. Every single misconception by them has been debunked. They said we won't get a currency union, except we had confirmation - that's right, confirmation from an expert as you want it, that we would. Because it would be easier for both England and Scotland if we did. We have had plenty of input from experts and businesses that independence would be beneficial for Scotland, it's actually the No campaign that are pulling "facts" out of their arse. RE the part where you said we have been taking our children to campaign... yes, people have, but so have the No campaign? And I for one have seen plenty of NO THANKS badges and posters, so don't act as if we are "oppressing" you or "shoving our views in your faces". Financially, we'd be better off in the long run for the simple reason that we'd have the ability to keep our own money. Taxes would go to Scottish education, our own healthcare, caring for own elderly, as it should. Any financial dilemmas or such faced by businesses are temporary, deciding to stay within the union is essentially prolonging the agony. And this whole claim by the No campaign that we would have more power after a No vote is... baseless, as every other claim. In the 1979 referendum, we were promised our own government, we got it a whole 20 years later, and it still has basically no influence in most of our decisions. Even if we could get "more powers", why do we want that? Why can't we have them ALL, as it should be? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear 7,515 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I wish the best for Scotland whatever the outcome, as much as I want us all to stick together. But If Scotland leave and then join the EU, it would likely mean University there would be free for me according to legal experts. (Unless the Scottish government then add tuition fees for everyone) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 680 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Gordon Brown was trending after giving one heck of final speech for the union: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J39bBV7CBJk&feature=youtu.be Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrawberryBlond 15,568 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Except literally every lie by the No campaign that claims to poke holes in Salmond's claims has a massive hole of its own. Every single misconception by them has been debunked. They said we won't get a currency union, except we had confirmation - that's right, confirmation from an expert as you want it, that we would. Because it would be easier for both England and Scotland if we did. We have had plenty of input from experts and businesses that independence would be beneficial for Scotland, it's actually the No campaign that are pulling "facts" out of their arse. RE the part where you said we have been taking our children to campaign... yes, people have, but so have the No campaign? And I for one have seen plenty of NO THANKS badges and posters, so don't act as if we are "oppressing" you or "shoving our views in your faces". Financially, we'd be better off in the long run for the simple reason that we'd have the ability to keep our own money. Taxes would go to Scottish education, our own healthcare, caring for own elderly, as it should. Any financial dilemmas or such faced by businesses are temporary, deciding to stay within the union is essentially prolonging the agony. And this whole claim by the No campaign that we would have more power after a No vote is... baseless, as every other claim. In the 1979 referendum, we were promised our own government, we got it a whole 20 years later, and it still has basically no influence in most of our decisions. Even if we could get "more powers", why do we want that? Why can't we have them ALL, as it should be? Then why are people still asking for answers to questions that Salmond has consistently avoided? I have not seen one article debunking "lies" spread by the no campaign - if you could link me to any sources, I'd happily read them. There's only been speculation about currency, there has been no official confirmation. Westminister has even said that they're not prepared to allow us to use the pound, considering it's British, not Scottish, currency. As we would no longer be a part of Britain, we'd not have an automatic right to use the currency that we were given under British rule. Vicki Greig spoke out at the No campaign today exposing Salmond's lies about privitisation of the NHS while he was secretly planning to make £500 million in cuts if independence is won. And also, today, he was talking about immigration and saying that he'd be willing to allow 24,000 immigrants to Scotland a year in order to generate more money to fund Scotland's welfare system. Yes, instead of encouraging the hundreds of thousands of Scots on benefits to get jobs that are available, he wants to encourage immigrants to come in en masse to do the work instead. That is when Salmond officially lost any remaining respect I had for him. What a disgusting way to treat foreigners and human beings in general. All I've heard from companies and businesses is how much worse off they'll be and that they'll move their HQ south and pull out investments if yes win. Is it all a lot of hot air or will they actually do it? Who can say, but no way would I want to play Russian roulette with the situation by voting yes. No voters do take their kids to rallies, yes, but considerably less. I've seen very few children from that side being paraded around, but rather these marches are full of older people and those in professional careers. Look at the yes side and there's kids being brought along (and clearly being indoctrinated into this way of thinking), lots of teens and young adults and lots of people shouting and looking aggressive. I won't pretend that the no side are all angels, but the vast majority of disruption has been from the yes crowd. Defacing no signs, throwing eggs at no voters, scrawling words like "traitor" and "scum" into the doors of those with no stickers in their windows and even threatening to find out the addresses of no campaign canvessors so they can burn their houses down...this is appalling behaviour. I'm so glad those people are not the ones representing my vote and I definitely don't want my future decided by vandals who can't accept a different opinion. Whichever way you vote, do it with class and decorum. I was reading an article today about a man who's decided at the last minute to become a no voter as he was completely freaked out by how bigoted the yes campaign had become. He said that the voters didn't want to listen to any questions raised and would wave them away with "we'll see to that after we win." It wasn't about working out what a yes vote would result in, but rather all about "recuriting" more yes voters, saying it wasn't so much a political movement as a recruitment program. He also said that some of the things they want from independence are at odds with each other and even within their own group, there are people who think differently on some issues because of their age and background (a good example being the LGBT side of the campaign who'd like to see a Scotland with more gay rights...but there are also a lot of traditionalists who are homophobic who definitely aren't on the same page, yet they both think an independent Scotland will give them what they want). I think the most unfortunate thing about the yes campaign is their famous slogan: "Scotland's future in Scotland's hands." It makes it sound as if Scottish citizens will actually play a role in the running of the country and major political decisions. If anyone believes that'll be the case, you'll living in cloud cuckoo land. The point that you seem to be missing is that not always getting the decisions and powers you want is part of being in a democracy. The over-riding message of the yes campaign is "we need to go independent because things aren't going our way." But accepting that "majority rules" is part of democracy. Democracy is apparently what Yes voters feel is being denied to them under the union, all because they don't always get the result they want. That's not what democracy's all about. Wanting to be a tiny country so we'd be more likely to get the results we want isn't a good reason to split up from a union. Where would the world be if every tiny nation went it alone just because the occasional thing didn't work out in their favour? I don't want to argue with you, so let's be calm at this final hurdle. Whatever way the result goes, I'm going to be afraid of repurcussions. The last thing Scotland needs is their version of The Irish Troubles. We were doing just fine until this referendum came up and turned fellow Scots against one another. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul 687 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Then why are people still asking for answers to questions that Salmond has consistently avoided? I have not seen one article debunking "lies" spread by the no campaign - if you could link me to any sources, I'd happily read them. There's only been speculation about currency, there has been no official confirmation. Westminister has even said that they're not prepared to allow us to use the pound, considering it's British, not Scottish, currency. As we would no longer be a part of Britain, we'd not have an automatic right to use the currency that we were given under British rule. Vicki Greig spoke out at the No campaign today exposing Salmond's lies about privitisation of the NHS while he was secretly planning to make £500 million in cuts if independence is won. And also, today, he was talking about immigration and saying that he'd be willing to allow 24,000 immigrants to Scotland a year in order to generate more money to fund Scotland's welfare system. Yes, instead of encouraging the hundreds of thousands of Scots on benefits to get jobs that are available, he wants to encourage immigrants to come in en masse to do the work instead. That is when Salmond officially lost any remaining respect I had for him. What a disgusting way to treat foreigners and human beings in general. All I've heard from companies and businesses is how much worse off they'll be and that they'll move their HQ south and pull out investments if yes win. Is it all a lot of hot air or will they actually do it? Who can say, but no way would I want to play Russian roulette with the situation by voting yes. No voters do take their kids to rallies, yes, but considerably less. I've seen very few children from that side being paraded around, but rather these marches are full of older people and those in professional careers. Look at the yes side and there's kids being brought along (and clearly being indoctrinated into this way of thinking), lots of teens and young adults and lots of people shouting and looking aggressive. I won't pretend that the no side are all angels, but the vast majority of disruption has been from the yes crowd. Defacing no signs, throwing eggs at no voters, scrawling words like "traitor" and "scum" into the doors of those with no stickers in their windows and even threatening to find out the addresses of no campaign canvessors so they can burn their houses down...this is appalling behaviour. I'm so glad those people are not the ones representing my vote and I definitely don't want my future decided by vandals who can't accept a different opinion. Whichever way you vote, do it with class and decorum. I was reading an article today about a man who's decided at the last minute to become a no voter as he was completely freaked out by how bigoted the yes campaign had become. He said that the voters didn't want to listen to any questions raised and would wave them away with "we'll see to that after we win." It wasn't about working out what a yes vote would result in, but rather all about "recuriting" more yes voters, saying it wasn't so much a political movement as a recruitment program. He also said that some of the things they want from independence are at odds with each other and even within their own group, there are people who think differently on some issues because of their age and background (a good example being the LGBT side of the campaign who'd like to see a Scotland with more gay rights...but there are also a lot of traditionalists who are homophobic who definitely aren't on the same page, yet they both think an independent Scotland will give them what they want). I think the most unfortunate thing about the yes campaign is their famous slogan: "Scotland's future in Scotland's hands." It makes it sound as if Scottish citizens will actually play a role in the running of the country and major political decisions. If anyone believes that'll be the case, you'll living in cloud cuckoo land. The point that you seem to be missing is that not always getting the decisions and powers you want is part of being in a democracy. The over-riding message of the yes campaign is "we need to go independent because things aren't going our way." But accepting that "majority rules" is part of democracy. Democracy is apparently what Yes voters feel is being denied to them under the union, all because they don't always get the result they want. That's not what democracy's all about. Wanting to be a tiny country so we'd be more likely to get the results we want isn't a good reason to split up from a union. Where would the world be if every tiny nation went it alone just because the occasional thing didn't work out in their favour? I don't want to argue with you, so let's be calm at this final hurdle. Whatever way the result goes, I'm going to be afraid of repurcussions. The last thing Scotland needs is their version of The Irish Troubles. We were doing just fine until this referendum came up and turned fellow Scots against one another. I don't have the time today to find you those sources, search for them yourself and you will see plenty. I see no point investing more energy here as the referendum is today and you clearly miss the whole point Doing...just...fine...? Do we even live in the same country? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bionic 50,111 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 putting their fingers in their ears and chanting "la la la la la." If that's the Kylie song for the Yes side, this is definitely the one for Better Together:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgvhvaSQZeE alternatively, if the union remains... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjrwGjBg3gQ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 680 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Comprehensive Update: http://www.businessinsider.com/scotland-independence-referendum-vote-result-2014-9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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