ClapDown 0 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 born this way was anything but effortless my god. do not repeat that statement. that album was the start of her truly being overwrought except in that case she over glorified herself and in this case she over-worried herself. +1 She really needs to tone down the high concept for the next era. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronk 14,762 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Well she sold 1 million copies of Born This Way in the first week. The lead single for Born This Way shot to #1. It seems obvious that talk would end up being about her downfall because there was no way she was going to achieve the hype she did during that era. She also released an album that was in a lot of ways very "anti-gaga". It didn't follow a lot of the rigid pop structures that she had adhered to previously and that could come across as jarring. I still wouldn't see ARTPOP as an underperformance though. It's a #1 album and spawned a worldwide sold-out tour. It is fashionable for the press to do the whole "Gaga is Over!" thing now. The biggest star on the planet suddenly fades into obscurity! Katy Perry has overtaken her as queen! It sells papers and gets clicks. It's all cyclical. C2C will see her critical acclaim rise again and it will likely debut at #1. (It isn't fashionable to trash Jazz legend Tony Bennett, and critics will jizz themselves over the prospect of Gaga showing off nothing but her vocals. They will be full of fake "surprise" at how well she sings). Her next album will also likely debut at #1. From there it makes it a lot harder for critics to label her as a flop or label her as over because she will have 4 straight #1 albums under her belt. MTE. Also, the industry is peeved at Gaga for not following their rules. They want music written for the masses to generate the most sales. The industry is all about money, and Gaga instead is writing for her artistic vision. Right now MTV and others are trying to marginalize Gaga, but for the reasons you mentioned, she'll be back. I live outside the space time continuum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklistedd 599 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 ARTPOP was a really pretentious concept to begin with, tbh. A lot of people were rubbed the wrong way to begin with by her saying that she would single-handedly bring art into pop music, which seemed to discredit the work of a lot of musicians before her. Add that to the fact that she massively overhyped it and she really created the perfect storm even before it came out. The knives were already out before it was released. And honestly, ARTPOP isn't nearly as artistic as she said it was going to be. It's full of fun, occasionally adventurous songs but it's much more of a party album than a deep, soulful work. The visual output was also really poor - it started out promising with Marina and Koons but ended up with seashell bikinis and oversized Mona Lisa t-shirts. Add in the lack of a video for DWUW and messy promotional strategy and you have a fundamentally botched era. I agree with certain aspects and disagree with others. Conceptually this project was a bust not because it was pretentious but because it didn't play to her benefit strategically. The knives were out and ready before people even knew the concept of it, so thats not really why they were ready to hate. They wanted to hate anyway, and it just so happened that what she delivered, while from a pop music standard was fine enough, didn't live up to its own lofty conceptual standards not because Gaga isn't capable but because she hasnt allowed herself to go the full mile since her first record. She holds back to try and appeal to everyone and in doing so created something that wasn't as from the heart and odd as it should've been. She keeps trying to balance eccentric and commercial and on one hand you can say thats really bold and on another I cant help but say that shes not using her full potential because instead of being the best of something she can be she wants to be everything at once and then flails about. She did the same thing with Born This Way albeit differently. I also agree that the visual output stumbled after the initial release. She went from clean and expensive to immediately cheapening herself and continued so throughout the rest of the era. The thing was, she copped out of a consistent look from the get go because before the album was even released she went on about not having one specific look this era. I never really agreed or thought much of that visual concept because imo it was just a handy way of her trying to get away with not having a visual concept. I agree with this. Born this way was much weirder than ARTPOP. Born This Way is musically more diverse and in your face, however, the same goes with that album imo in saying that she dumbs herself down for her consumers. I think a lot of Born This Way at least lyrically was pretty juvenile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClapDown 0 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Born This Way is musically more diverse and in your face, however, the same goes with that album imo in saying that she dumbs herself down for her consumers. I think a lot of Born This Way at least lyrically was pretty juvenile. The lyrics on her first two albums weren't exactly Bob Dylan either, though.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklistedd 599 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 The lyrics on her first two albums weren't exactly Bob Dylan either, though.... They don't have to be Bob Dylan. I think for what she was trying to execute with The Fame, which keep in mind was also a debut album so theres some leeway, she did so very well and with lyrics that were pretty clever. Im not saying that shes **** lyrically in ARTPOP and Born This Way, you also have to keep in mind that I like both albums. I just think even for The Fame's sort of simple concept it said a lot more than ARTPOP and even at times Born This Way. The Fame Monster was also simple in certain aspects I guess in that it wasn't that lofty or anything but I think it was her most mature album so far lyrically. I think it worked really well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClapDown 0 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 They don't have to be Bob Dylan. I think for what she was trying to execute with The Fame, which keep in mind was also a debut album so theres some leeway, she did so very well and with lyrics that were pretty clever. Im not saying that shes **** lyrically in ARTPOP and Born This Way, you also have to keep in mind that I like both albums. I just think even for The Fame's sort of simple concept it said a lot more than ARTPOP and even at times Born This Way. The Fame Monster was also simple in certain aspects I guess in that it wasn't that lofty or anything but I think it was her most mature album so far lyrically. I think it worked really well. That's true - I was only joking about the Bob Dylan bit. Truth be told, she really does have a knack for fantastic choruses and hooks, which so evident in the first two albums and bits of BTW. Poker Face, LoveGame, and Bad Romance have to be some of the catchiest pop songs of all time - perfect for the radio. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklistedd 599 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 I think ARTPOP as it back in 2012 with Garibay was amazing, but she second-guessed herself to death leading us to get 2013's ARTPOP. She worries her work to death. THE FAME and BTW felt effortless, while ARTPOP reeks of her trying to regain that sense of effortlessness. Also, I must add. What do you know of what ARTPOP sounded like in 2012? lol Have you heard it? Why would you even assume it was more amazing than what we got. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryhanna 3,507 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 I don't think GUYS quality is lacking either though. I can understand maybe some people thinking its whatever, but considering whats on the radio these days I think otherwise the song would've done pretty well on both the charts and radio. The thing is people just don't want to consume her, some outright refuse. It's all up to personal opinion, really, and I respect your thoughts. I just don't think GUY would have connected with people because I feel like it's just not a great song. And I mean, I'm not trying to instigate some kind of debate over quality or anything, it's just not a song that I could ever imagine people singing along to in the car on their way to work... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklistedd 599 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 That's true - I was only joking about the Bob Dylan bit. Truth be told, she really does have a knack for fantastic choruses and hooks, which so evident in the first two albums and bits of BTW. Poker Face, LoveGame, and Bad Romance have to be some of the catchiest pop songs of all time - perfect for the radio. Idk the whole concept of this album was just a bust to me and before it was released, when I first heard the title even, I was like here we go. But I held some hope that maybe she'd deliver something too dope to disregard. But what we got was just nothing more than fine and conceptually meh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisGuyTony 30,627 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Yes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklistedd 599 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 It's all up to personal opinion, really, and I respect your thoughts. I just don't think GUY would have connected with people because I feel like it's just not a great song. And I mean, I'm not trying to instigate some kind of debate over quality or anything, it's just not a song that I could ever imagine people singing along to in the car on their way to work... Why though? What makes it less infectious or of less quality than Lovegame or Sheisse? You know? Its like I get personal opinion, but at the same time to me I don't see the logic in people picking out these like specific generally catchy songs and claiming they are particularly lacking. People do that a lot with Gagas music. And im just like.....I don't hear the difference really. Now if we're talking something like Aura or Venus where clearly theres like something divisive about them I get it. Not even a matter of liking GUY or not since im pretty whatever about it, but I can still see how single worthy it was. Not saying it would've been number one for weeks on end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryhanna 3,507 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Why though? What makes it less infectious or of less quality than Lovegame or Sheisse? You know? Its like I get personal opinion, but at the same time to me I don't see the logic in people picking out these like specific generally catchy songs and claiming they are particularly lacking. People do that a lot with Gagas music. And im just like.....I don't hear the difference really. Now if we're talking something like Aura or Venus where clearly theres like something divisive about them I get it. Not even a matter of liking GUY or not since im pretty whatever about it, but I can still see how single worthy it was. Not saying it would've been number one for weeks on end. Well, personally I find that the chorus is flat and kind of uninteresting. That's not to say that anyone who hears it will feel that way, just that it's how I personally feel about it and it wouldn't shock me if others felt the same way. That's the thing about singles, isn't it? They can be tricky and a lot of people feel differently about them. Some like certain songs and some don't, so it's tough to really gauge what could potentially be a big hit or what won't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavymlover 340 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 ARTPOP is not the problem. The people are simply over her antics and what she represents. Simple as that. It doesn't help that her management has been a MESS since they chose Judas as the second single. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklistedd 599 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Well, personally I find that the chorus is flat and kind of uninteresting. That's not to say that anyone who hears it will feel that way, just that it's how I personally feel about it and it wouldn't shock me if others felt the same way. That's the thing about singles, isn't it? They can be tricky and a lot of people feel differently about them. Some like certain songs and some don't, so it's tough to really gauge what could potentially be a big hit or what won't. Idk even if you think its uninteresting I still think it would've done relatively well if it werent for her circumstances. People just don't want to consume her. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryhanna 3,507 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Idk even if you think its uninteresting I still think it would've done relatively well if it werent for her circumstances. People just don't want to consume her. You're entitled to feel that way, just as I am entitled to feel that it probably wouldn't have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Featured Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.