Pop music is not synonymous with basic or safe.

[TimisaMonster 31,073]

Were you alive in the late 90s and early 2000s? 

A lot of music lately has been reminding me of 2003ish. 

I do think a lot of it is made to be safe, but to be fair, even artists like KP and MC take risks, it is just the bias in this fan base that they do not, because they're bitter to see other artists who they don't identify with way above Gaga. WCS and Miley's whole act is a huge risk. KP's Dark Horse, while structured for radio is a different direction for white girl pop, the Birthday video is not some pop spectacle that most people want to accompany their girls with. 

The safe artists imo are Lorde(she's safe, she wrote an angsty party song, nothing new), Demi (NL is fun, but totally safe), etc. 

 

But agreed, in no way should anyone be shamed for liking pop music that isn't Gaga, which is essentially what this comes to down to here.

Yes I was alive and music has gotten REALLY basic at the turn of the century and expecially this decade... It's really embarrassing

[Ronk 14,762]

 

And to be honest, it's the lack of catchiness that appeals to me more. Her work in the first two albums had a tendency of being very hook-y. Yes it was memorable and it worked fine, but I find it refreshing that she's not using the stuttering vocals and repeated phrases as much as anymore. The songwriting is good (and natural) enough to breathe on its own.

This.  I think ARTPOP is her best work so far.  It can be argued that catchiness is playing it safe because such music may be written just because catchy music sells.   Gaga is not playing it safe when writing songs to her own vision, creativity, and artistry even though they may not be catchy and she knows they may not sell as well.  I look at Gaga as more a pure artist rather than a commercial artist.

[djBuffoon 12,115]

This.  I think ARTPOP is her best work so far.  It can be argued that catchiness is playing it safe because such music may be written just because catchy music sells.   Gaga is not playing it safe when writing songs to her own vision, creativity, and artistry even though they may not be catchy and she knows they may not sell as well.  I look at Gaga as more a pure artist rather than a commercial artist.

Precisely. Many of her hits contain these signature touches that we instantly associate with her. ARTPOP, to me, sounded like she was saying "I know what you have come to expect from me. And for the vast majority of this album, it's going bye-bye. Because I'm more than that."

[Ronk 14,762]

Precisely. Many of her hits contain these signature touches that we instantly associate with her. ARTPOP, to me, sounded like she was saying "I know what you have come to expect from me. And for the vast majority of this album, it's going bye-bye. Because I'm more than that."

Exactly.  This era she's not writing for what people want, she's doing what she wants.  She has given us so much and worked so hard her entire career, she deserves the opportunity to do this now.

[Ray of Light 8,134]

ARTPOP is catchy, good music. It just seems hollow, meaningless and pointless as a whole. That turned off a lot of people. Including me. It's like a greatest hits album without the hits.

[djBuffoon 12,115]

ARTPOP is catchy, good music. It just seems hollow, meaningless and pointless as a whole. That turned off a lot of people. Including me. It's like a greatest hits album without the hits.

Interesting. It seems to be her most divisive album, amongst the fans and the GP who've actually heard it. Some say it's her best, some say it's her weakest. Doesn't sound meaningless to me.

And as for the last sentence, with all due respect, what does that even mean?

[Ray of Light 8,134]

Interesting. It seems to be her most divisive album, amongst the fans and the GP who've actually heard it. Doesn't sound meaningless to me.

And as for the last sentence, with all due respect, what does that even mean?

It's like she grabbed all these songs and threw them together for the sake of it, like a GH album. 

 

And diverse =/= meaningless. What I was trying to say is that, to me, it seems meaningless because it has no true theme. It's not cohesive. Apparently it's about possibilities and ART and POP belonging together. The music is good. I like every song. I just can't sit down and listen to it all at once because it doesn't pull me in. 

[djBuffoon 12,115]

It's like she grabbed all these songs and threw them together for the sake of it, like a GH album.

And diverse =/= meaningless. What I was trying to say is that, to me, it seems meaningless because it has no true theme. It's not cohesive. Apparently it's about possibilities and ART and POP belonging together. The music is good. I like every song. I just can't sit down and listen to it all at once because it doesn't pull me in.

Divisive, not diverse. ;)

I mean, if the extent of meaning you got out of it is that it's about how ART and POP can exist together, it's no wonder you found it hollow.

[VforVendetta 2,024]

Were you alive in the late 90s and early 2000s?

A lot of music lately has been reminding me of 2003ish.

I do think a lot of it is made to be safe, but to be fair, even artists like KP and MC take risks, it is just the bias in this fan base that they do not, because they're bitter to see other artists who they don't identify with way above Gaga. WCS and Miley's whole act is a huge risk. KP's Dark Horse, while structured for radio is a different direction for white girl pop, the Birthday video is not some pop spectacle that most people want to accompany their girls with.

The safe artists imo are Lorde(she's safe, she wrote an angsty party song, nothing new), Demi (NL is fun, but totally safe), etc.

But agreed, in no way should anyone be shamed for liking pop music that isn't Gaga, which is essentially what this comes to down to here.

You lost me when you said that Katy Perry'a music is more risky than Demi's. Nothing Katy has done since her very first Era is risky at all ans even then she took very few risks. Miley definitely took a risk, the problem is that she became a sell-out, I was a fan Od hers before Bangers and I will never be again. Its a shame cause WB was a great song. As for Lorde I find her much more innovative and unique from the shallow messes above her that I personally consider the dacay of music industry. (I don't make it on purpose, I swear )

[Celeas 5]

It's like she grabbed all these songs and threw them together for the sake of it, like a GH album. 

 

I had a very similar feeling, although I believe it's like a gallery or a museum: You have alot of very different pieces of work all together in one room/building.

 

When I first listened to the album I was suprised of the changing styles between Sexxx Dreams, Jewels n Drugs, MANiCURE, DWUW, ARTPOP and Swine (which is like half the album). All these songs had very different influences and this was reminiscent of walking through the museum seeing all these very different pieces of art side by side, at least for me.

 

On Topic: I also believe Pop Music is not necessarily safe. It's always about doing the new, exciting thing without disturbing the huge masses. It's a walk on the tightrope if you want to be a legend.

[tokyodisko 0]

I think "Sexxx Dreams" is great the way it is. Both perspectives are hers, a feature wouldn't make much sense to me.

 

As for a musical direction, this is Gaga we're talking about. All of her albums draw from a wide, eclectic pool of influences. Case in point, "Judas" and "Fashion of His Love" are on the same album. "Brown Eyes" and "Love Game" are on the same album. And so on. I think this album is as disjointed and yet unified as her other works. Especially when played from start to finish, it sounds like a complete work.

 

And to be honest, it's the lack of catchiness that appeals to me more. Her work in the first two albums had a tendency of being very hook-y. Yes it was memorable and it worked fine, but I find it refreshing that she's not using the stuttering vocals and repeated phrases as much as anymore. The songwriting is good (and natural) enough to breathe on its own.

Don't get me wrong- it's one of my favorites from her, though I think the verses could have been a bit more clear vocally and mixed better. ^^ 

I think the difference is that while your examples are very different, they still tie into the themes overall and are not as drastic as Dope to JnD to Swine to SD. I like that she gets a variety, but I think this was too much variety for one album. It makes her look messy, even if it was a planned mess.  That's what my friends said that I went to dinner with tonight. They said they like her directions, but having them all done at once felt weird. I think I agree. Part of it, I feel, is that since she worked on it for so long and was pulled in different directions by her experiences and Troy that it all kind of just tumbled out together. 

 

I don't mind her moving past the repeating and stuttering, though I do love it. I just felt like some of the lyrics were really...just bad. I think the verses in Donatella and Aura are her absolute worst work yet. 

 

 

I think ARTPOP is a lot more complex than songs like Just Dance and Poker Face personally, but you are right tokyo, simple =/= bad.

 

Simple melodies can make some of the best music. I think Just Dance is the best selling "safe" gaga song ever when it comes to lyrics. The light EDM feel was VERY in back then, so thats part of why it smashed so hard I dont like the word "basic" because i know artists that make cookie cutter pop music and Gaga's "basic" is generally more complex than the average singer's "basic".

 

But theres nothing wrong with cookie cutter pop music, basic pop music, simple pop music, nonsensical pop music, theres nothing inherantly wrong or bad with any type of music --- its just that people will have opinions. I think pop is the best at what it does --- it uses hooks to be catchy and appeal to masses and its also the most all encompassing genre. Any genre can be made into pop music, and i think thats kind of beautiful. I think Gaga has similar views of pop music, its not some generic mess but a formula that's open to extreme interpretation -- its a blank canvas and the only thing that stays the same is the canvas itself :D

While only the most watered down forms might get international recognition and top charts and what not, its not a representation of ALL of pop music and pop artists like people think it is >.>

 

Honestly, musical elitists piss me off so much with this. So many people are like "music is dead, pop music is garbage cookie cutter crap, Metal or Screamo 4 life". If theres a kind of person i dislike associating with, its these people

 

I can understand them simply just not liking techno, or modern trends in music, but its a closed minded view when 99% of these people i talk to have never tried to listen to any artists that are on top 40 other than the 1 song they hear by them on the radio. *Sigh*

 

Anyway i got off on a tangent.

 

I really agree with everything u said here  except the ARTPOP stuff, but opinions r opinions lol

See, you get it at least! :D haha

 

 

Precisely. Many of her hits contain these signature touches that we instantly associate with her. ARTPOP, to me, sounded like she was saying "I know what you have come to expect from me. And for the vast majority of this album, it's going bye-bye. Because I'm more than that."

I think that stemmed from her being insecure though. :/ I would love to see her expand. I loooooove Y&I and Speechless so much and I think doing an album that was more cohesive would showcase it better. I have always said, I would be fine if Gaga only did EPs. 6-8 flawless songs a year with a solid direction and it's short enough that she can change it up fast or keep it similar. It's when she gets into longer albums that she loses her initial vision- also because of having too much time. More isn't always better. I could have done without half of TF/BTW/AP, not to say I don't enjoy them, but I wouldn't know they even existed, so there would be nothing to miss. ^^

 

 

Yes I was alive and music has gotten REALLY basic at the turn of the century and expecially this decade... It's really embarrassing

Yeah, but people say that during every decade. 70s, 80s, 90s. It's just a pattern in time and shifts in pop cultural trends. :P Pop music keeps evolving and broadening. Just because you personally don't care for something doesn't mean that it's all bad. I hate the folkish music that has been mass produced, but it's just a trend. It's the negative attitude that hurts it more than the music itself. Since 2000 pop music has completely expanded tbh and is more open than ever. 

On Topic: I also believe Pop Music is not necessarily safe. It's always about doing the new, exciting thing without disturbing the huge masses. It's a walk on the tightrope if you want to be a legend.

This! I think Gaga walked it perfectly in TF/TFM, but it got a little too heavy too fast for the GP to be okay with it during BTW. It's like s-x, to impregnate the masses with your ideas, you need to take it slow and steady. Don't rush it or it might hurt.  Worst or best way to describe that? 

[tokyodisko 0]

You lost me when you said that Katy Perry'a music is more risky than Demi's. Nothing Katy has done since her very first Era is risky at all ans even then she took very few risks. Miley definitely took a risk, the problem is that she became a sell-out, I was a fan Od hers before Bangers and I will never be again. Its a shame cause WB was a great song. As for Lorde I find her much more innovative and unique from the shallow messes above her that I personally consider the dacay of music industry. (I don't make it on purpose, I swear )

Right. A song called IKAG is not risky.   Especially as a lead single on a debut album. Ur So Gay wasn't risky either of course. DH was a risky genre choice for a white female pop artist. Roar was not risky at all, but not all pop music has to be risky. TD wasn't exactly risky at all, but it was well made pop. Peacock maybe, but it wasn't a single. She described it as an album you'd listen to in the 80s at a roller rink, so I think she followed through on it. 

It's POPular music after all. Unless I'm missing something about Demi's career... I don't see how she has taken any risks with her image or music. It doesn't mean I don't like her, because I do, but I don't see her as risky. 

I'm not trying to start an argument, but I don't understand why people say Miley is a sell out? She grew up and she's having fun and her music reflects it. I liked some of her CBT album, especially WOMH ( ) I don't see how it's selling out if she feels like herself more and likes the musical direction she is going in. 

Lorde is unique in the top 40s, because of her image and sound, but she's not really anything new. Royals has the exact same theme as many other songs. They just found a young talent they could package with hipster appeal. It's just the music industry. It's how it is. 

[VforVendetta 2,024]

Right. A song called IKAG is not risky. Especially as a lead single on a debut album. Ur So Gay wasn't risky either of course. DH was a risky genre choice for a white female pop artist. Roar was not risky at all, but not all pop music has to be risky. TD wasn't exactly risky at all, but it was well made pop. Peacock maybe, but it wasn't a single. She described it as an album you'd listen to in the 80s at a roller rink, so I think she followed through on it.

It's POPular music after all. Unless I'm missing something about Demi's career... I don't see how she has taken any risks with her image or music. It doesn't mean I don't like her, because I do, but I don't see her as risky.

I'm not trying to start an argument, but I don't understand why people say Miley is a sell out? She grew up and she's having fun and her music reflects it. I liked some of her CBT album, especially WOMH ( ) I don't see how it's selling out if she feels like herself more and likes the musical direction she is going in.

Lorde is unique in the top 40s, because of her image and sound, but she's not really anything new. Royals has the exact same theme as many other songs. They just found a young talent they could package with hipster appeal. It's just the music industry. It's how it is.

This is why I said since her first Era and tbh IKAG is not as risky as you make it seem. Even you can't name more than 5 risks in Katy's career and even these were not anything big really. As for Miley, being an attention wh0re is nor being herself even if she is one. You know something, she could have proved herself with her sword but chose the easy way but she also chose the short way. Maybe Lorde isn't less constructed than the two above but at least her music is much more innovative and she has dignity, she didn't start licking the Grammy awards while twerking on Thickle's dick.

[tokyodisko 0]

This is why I said since her first Era and tbh IKAG is not as risky as you make it seem. Even you can't name more than 5 risks in Katy's career and even these were not anything big really. As for Miley, being an attention wh0re is nor being herself even if she is one. You know something, she could have proved herself with her sword but chose the easy way but she also chose the short way. Maybe Lorde isn't less constructed than the two above but at least her music is much more innovative and she has dignity, she didn't start licking the Grammy awards while twerking on Thickle's dick.

IKAG was a big risk for 2008 America. I didn't try to name many risks, because that is not the point. My point was she is more risky than other artists like Demi or Selena. This is an internet forum and I don't feel like spending too much time debating something that you're just going to ignore anyway. Like I said, why does it matter if Katy is risky? Has she even ever claimed she wants to be risky? She wants to create fun pop music. She doesn't need to be risky. Risky doesn't make an artist any better than another, so get off your high horse and wake up to the world. It's just a matter of personal preference and to attempt to discredit another artist for your opinion is ignorant. You don't have to like what someone does to respect their careers. I think Madonna is a bitter hag now, but it doesn't mean I don't recognize and respect her when credit is due. You're a smart kid, so open your eyes to other opinions even if you don't personally agree with them. Your double standards with Gaga versus other artists is beneath you. 

 

Also, if you're going to slut shame or body shame Miley you can just gtfo tbh. She wasn't trying to be s-xy. If you think she was you missed the point. She has even said herself that there is a giant double standard with men and women and presenting s-xuality like she did. Robin's video was degrading to women, so she wanted him to be her accessory in the performance. People say Gaga's performance overshadows her talent too, so maybe MIley's does as well. We should hate Miley for it? This isn't the 1950s. Miley is making the music she wants, she is more honest than Gaga on stage, she doesn't try to be anything aside from herself. Her persona is a wild party girl. If you are even old enough to get drunk and go clubbing, you or friends have probably also kissed a stranger, twerked jokingly, grinded on someone, made s-xual gestures for fun, etc. She's being a 21yo girl in 2014. Welcome to the present.

 

Lorde isn't innovative. She's not original. Talented? Yes, definitely.

 

Lorde has more dignity than Miley? Oh, because she wears more clothing and isn't expressing her s-xuality in a way that isn't atypical of society's standards for women? That's cute. You have fun with your backwards thinking.

Miley is proud of her body, she's proud to be a s-xual woman. Shut that slut and body shaming bull**** down. 

[TimisaMonster 31,073]

Don't get me wrong- it's one of my favorites from her, though I think the verses could have been a bit more clear vocally and mixed better. ^^ 

I think the difference is that while your examples are very different, they still tie into the themes overall and are not as drastic as Dope to JnD to Swine to SD. I like that she gets a variety, but I think this was too much variety for one album. It makes her look messy, even if it was a planned mess.  That's what my friends said that I went to dinner with tonight. They said they like her directions, but having them all done at once felt weird. I think I agree. Part of it, I feel, is that since she worked on it for so long and was pulled in different directions by her experiences and Troy that it all kind of just tumbled out together. 

 

I don't mind her moving past the repeating and stuttering, though I do love it. I just felt like some of the lyrics were really...just bad. I think the verses in Donatella and Aura are her absolute worst work yet. 

 

 

See, you get it at least! :D haha

 

 

I think that stemmed from her being insecure though. :/ I would love to see her expand. I loooooove Y&I and Speechless so much and I think doing an album that was more cohesive would showcase it better. I have always said, I would be fine if Gaga only did EPs. 6-8 flawless songs a year with a solid direction and it's short enough that she can change it up fast or keep it similar. It's when she gets into longer albums that she loses her initial vision- also because of having too much time. More isn't always better. I could have done without half of TF/BTW/AP, not to say I don't enjoy them, but I wouldn't know they even existed, so there would be nothing to miss. ^^

 

 

Yeah, but people say that during every decade. 70s, 80s, 90s. It's just a pattern in time and shifts in pop cultural trends. :P Pop music keeps evolving and broadening. Just because you personally don't care for something doesn't mean that it's all bad. I hate the folkish music that has been mass produced, but it's just a trend. It's the negative attitude that hurts it more than the music itself. Since 2000 pop music has completely expanded tbh and is more open than ever. 

This! I think Gaga walked it perfectly in TF/TFM, but it got a little too heavy too fast for the GP to be okay with it during BTW. It's like s-x, to impregnate the masses with your ideas, you need to take it slow and steady. Don't rush it or it might hurt.  Worst or best way to describe that? 

 

I guess tokyodisco if you say so, some us just like hate basic