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Beyoncé, Rihanna & more: 23 ways to killed if your black in America


Thomas P

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Harry
2 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I'm not trying to make excuses, just putting down the facts at hand. And considering that a white person could get shot for the same things. When cops get shot, it's usually for a malicious reason, they're there to protect people after all, so those who shoot them are guilty. The only reason you'd have for shooting a cop is if you're a criminal. BLM isn't exactly making a good name for itself when they're assaulting cops at riots (especially when said cops are there to protect them while they're protesting) and when they're doing a protest down a busy Manhattan street chanting: "What do we want? Dead cops. When do we want it? Now." I don't want the death of anyone and I don't support the baying for blood. I don't understand why you think cops lives are meaningless. They're not perfect by any means. Just a few days ago, a black man got shot despite not committing a crime, lying down on the ground and putting his hands up and shouting "don't shoot" and after surviving the incident, he asked the cop why he shot him and he replied "I don't know." So, there obviously are some cops out there who shouldn't be on the job. But at the end of the day, human life is human life and I think everyone's life has a meaning and any death is a shame and pity shouldn't just be reserved for regular civilians. But that doesn't mean I should be disallowed from simply looking into the reasons behind why these incidents happened and work out solutions.

I saw this great video last night. It brought tears to my eyes.

Now, why did this affect me more than the other video? Because this video didn't spread lies and misinformation. Because everyone in the this video was completely innocent. Because it didn't put certain human lives above other human lives. Because it acknowledged that you can get killed for all manner of reasons and there's no way of getting killed that is specific to your race. Actually, the moments that affected me the most where the black ones. I felt more sympathy because the ones depicted here were genuine victims.

This is why I'm not a racist. I have so much compassion in my heart and I feel it for everyone, most of all, victims.

you're a bloody idiot if you think i said cop lives are meaningless. how dare you.

"actually, the moments that affected me the most were the black ones". wow. you angel. we should be so grateful for you and your compassion.

disgusting

no one is saying the lives of innocent people aren't important ffs. but you're still ignoring how proportionally likelier it is to be killed by cops if you're black and that's the SPECIFIC discussion here. you'd be upset if we were having a discussion about feminism and i came in and tried to make it all about men and their problems. you want to silence this issue so badly and it's honestly sickening.

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StrawberryBlond
4 minutes ago, Harry said:

you're a bloody idiot if you think i said cop lives are meaningless. how dare you.

"actually, the moments that affected me the most were the black ones". wow. you angel. we should be so grateful for you and your compassion.

disgusting


You didn't explicitly say it but you've been criticising me all along for defending cops, regardless of the situation. Some of the people brought up in that 23 ways video were brandishing weapons at the time (these facts were conveniently omitted and the entire situation over-simplified) and putting people's lives in danger as well as the cops. You don't think a cop has the right to shoot as part of self defence when someone is brandishing a weapon? Cops put their lives on the line as part of their job and we should respect how they put themselves as risk everyday for us. Sure, there's corruption going on but if you're in a dangerous situation, suddenly all you want to do is phone the police to come and save the day. Suddenly, we only support them when we require them personally. So, I think we at least owe them the respect to look at every case fairly and not just lump them into a corrupt category without research. The cops have families too and have a right to self defence just like us.

I'm not trying to say I'm an angel. I'm trying to fight for my case to prove I'm not a racist.

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Harry
Just now, StrawberryBlond said:


You didn't explicitly say it but you've been criticising me all along for defending cops, regardless of the situation. Some of the people brought up in that 23 ways video were brandishing weapons at the time (these facts were conveniently omitted and the entire situation over-simplified) and putting people's lives in danger as well as the cops. You don't think a cop has the right to shoot as part of self defence when someone is brandishing a weapon? Cops put their lives on the line as part of their job and we should respect how they put themselves as risk everyday for us. Sure, there's corruption going on but if you're in a dangerous situation, suddenly all you want to do is phone the police to come and save the day. Suddenly, we only support them when we require them personally. So, I think we at least owe them the respect to look at every case fairly and not just lump them into a corrupt category without research. The cops have families too and have a right to self defence just like us.

I'm not trying to say I'm an angel. I'm trying to fight for my case to prove I'm not a racist.

I've been criticising you for defending cops guilty of murders. I know you love to generalise black people in your argument but believe it or not we don't all make rash accusations and I do not think that all cops are terrible people. I'm as disgusted by the innocent murders of cops as the next person.

Once again you've missed the point. I even sent you an article of all the black people that weren't armed when murdered, yet you insist of pushing the image of all black people as violent criminals. Sickening. You defended the murder of Alton Sterling who was restrained by two cops on the ground but shot six times in the chest. Yet you'd rather us assume that he was wielding a gun based on some accusations but refuse the content of the actual video. racist

You disgust me because when it comes to feminism you (rightly) tell men they can't truly understand the struggle and should listen. But then you say that you just "see people" or whatever and when people from the black or gay community talk about their issues, you'd rather brush them aside and call them "human issues" that could "happen to anyone". You won't listen to people in the same way you demand people listen to you as a woman feminist. And then you'll say outrageous things like Beyonce is only successful because she's black or that I only disagree with you because I'm a misogynistic fag. You just deny deny deny and excuse excuse excuse. Belittle people and their struggles but expect them to hear and sympathise with yours. You are an abhorrent piece of work in my eyes.

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StrawberryBlond
19 hours ago, Harry said:

I've been criticising you for defending cops guilty of murders. I know you love to generalise black people in your argument but believe it or not we don't all make rash accusations and I do not think that all cops are terrible people. I'm as disgusted by the innocent murders of cops as the next person.

Once again you've missed the point. I even sent you an article of all the black people that weren't armed when murdered, yet you insist of pushing the image of all black people as violent criminals. Sickening. You defended the murder of Alton Sterling who was restrained by two cops on the ground but shot six times in the chest. Yet you'd rather us assume that he was wielding a gun based on some accusations but refuse the content of the actual video. racist

You disgust me because when it comes to feminism you (rightly) tell men they can't truly understand the struggle and should listen. But then you say that you just "see people" or whatever and when people from the black or gay community talk about their issues, you'd rather brush them aside and call them "human issues" that could "happen to anyone". You won't listen to people in the same way you demand people listen to you as a woman feminist. And then you'll say outrageous things like Beyonce is only successful because she's black or that I only disagree with you because I'm a misogynistic fag. You just deny deny deny and excuse excuse excuse. Belittle people and their struggles but expect them to hear and sympathise with yours. You are an abhorrent piece of work in my eyes.

I wasn't so much defending the cops as trying to work out if there was more to the situation than meets the eye.

Of course there are completely innocent ones being shot and that's bad. I never denied that. I didn't defend the cops shooting Anton so much as try to find out the circumstances that led up to this and to see if he really did appear to reach for the gun while restrained. Of course there'll be grey areas. Whatever the situation, when an altercation ends in death, it feels like justice is never served. I'm not jumping up and down with joy like you like to think I am. I don't want to see anyone getting shot.

The feminist thing is a good point, however, you may not have seen this, but I always make sure that the things that I complain about are either issues that are solely affecting women or issues that affect women disproportionally. And if I do bring up something that isn't solely affecting women, I always make sure I make this clear and that I do realise that men can go through this too. What has been striking me about a lot of racial conversation going about right now is that so many people are talking about how certain behaviours will get a black person shot but not a white person. In the 23 ways video, for example, one of the causes is "walking away from police." I actually found a case of a white unarmed man who was shot walking away from police and another innocent white who was shot driving away from police. The way the video talks, you'd think these situations were exclusive to blacks. The video is entitled in such a way that it sounds like it's being suggested that these ways to die are exclusive to blacks. If they can happen to anyone, I don't think they should be phrased in this exclusive manner. I would have much preferred it if this was just a video entitled "This is the way that black people in America were killed in America in the last year," or something like that. But its phrasing turned these ways exclusive and that is untrue. That is what is annoying me more than anything. If a certain issue can happen to anyone, I just want it to be identified as such, that's all. Phrasing is important, as well you know. And anyway, I took back that statement about Beyonce is just successful because she's black (I never claimed it was the only reason anyway) and I never called you a misogynist fag. Don't put words into my mouth.

However...

All this arguing has made me stop and take a look back at everything I've said. You know, I've never been this argumentative when it comes to race. I've actually been against police stopping minorities in the street more than whites. And I've had to try to educate my cousin about the reality of situations and how dangerous generalising can be since she moved to Bradford and is complaining about the Muslims living there. I've always been very vocal about the struggles minorities face and how they deal with stuff a lot of whites don't think about. But ever since race became a major hot topic and there's been real controversy going down, I realise that I've become more outspoken about how whites are being...ignored, for lack of a better term. How their struggles are getting downplayed or even suggested that they don't exist. How there's generalisations going on. But that's because the media focus on it has sensationalised things and pushed me there. And trying to be from the outside looking in, I'm not proud of it. I never used to have to defend myself and my race like this and I never thought there'd be a point where I'd be like this. While the actions of some members of BLM have disgusted me (blocking traffic, chanting about dead cops, interrupting Bernie Saunders, halting a Pride event, derailing a vigil for the Orlando shooting...), their actions in no way excuse the way that I've changed. I am in no way a racist by any means, but perhaps in the last few months, I've been a bit too defensive of whiteness and gone about things the wrong way. I definitely think some issues need to be discussed but I've gone about it wrongly. But it's never too late to change. I need to stop trying to see everything lately as an attack on whiteness, realise it's not an insult to me personally and chill out a bit more. I fight racism in little ways every day and call it out when I see it. I know I'm better than what I've shown here. I promise I'll re-assess the things I believe and try my best to get back to the way I used to be before now. I don't want to be like my cousin and turn racist over time. I've woken up a bit now. I'll try to change, I promise.

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Harry
23 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I wasn't so much defending the cops as trying to work out if there was more to the situation than meets the eye.

Of course there are completely innocent ones being shot and that's bad. I never denied that. I didn't defend the cops shooting Anton so much as try to find out the circumstances that led up to this and to see if he really did appear to reach for the gun while restrained. Of course there'll be grey areas. Whatever the situation, when an altercation ends in death, it feels like justice is never served. I'm not jumping up and down with joy like you like to think I am. I don't want to see anyone getting shot.

The feminist thing is a good point, however, you may not have seen this, but I always make sure that the things that I complain about are either issues that are solely affecting women or issues that affect women disproportionally. And if I do bring up something that isn't solely affecting women, I always make sure I make this clear and that I do realise that men can go through this too. What has been striking me about a lot of racial conversation going about right now is that so many people are talking about how certain behaviours will get a black person shot but not a white person. In the 23 ways video, for example, one of the causes is "walking away from police." I actually found a case of a white unarmed man who was shot walking away from police and another innocent white who was shot driving away from police. The way the video talks, you'd think these situations were exclusive to blacks. The video is entitled in such a way that it sounds like it's being suggested that these ways to die are exclusive to blacks. If they can happen to anyone, I don't think they should be phrased in this exclusive manner. I would have much preferred it if this was just a video entitled "This is the way that black people in America were killed in America in the last year," or something like that. But its phrasing turned these ways exclusive and that is untrue. That is what is annoying me more than anything. If a certain issue can happen to anyone, I just want it to be identified as such, that's all. Phrasing is important, as well you know. And anyway, I took back that statement about Beyonce is just successful because she's black (I never claimed it was the only reason anyway) and I never called you a misogynist fag. Don't put words into my mouth.

However...

All this arguing has made me stop and take a look back at everything I've said. You know, I've never been this argumentative when it comes to race. I've actually been against police stopping minorities in the street more than whites. And I've had to try to educate my cousin about the reality of situations and how dangerous generalising can be since she moved to Bradford and is complaining about the Muslims living there. I've always been very vocal about the struggles minorities face and how they deal with stuff a lot of whites don't think about. But ever since race became a major hot topic and there's been real controversy going down, I realise that I've become more outspoken about how whites are being...ignored, for lack of a better term. How their struggles are getting downplayed or even suggested that they don't exist. How there's generalisations going on. But that's because the media focus on it has sensationalised things and pushed me there. And trying to be from the outside looking in, I'm not proud of it. I never used to have to defend myself and my race like this and I never thought there'd be a point where I'd be like this. While the actions of some members of BLM have disgusted me (blocking traffic, chanting about dead cops, interrupting Bernie Saunders, halting a Pride event, derailing a vigil for the Orlando shooting...), their actions in no way excuse the way that I've changed. I am in no way a racist by any means, but perhaps in the last few months, I've been a bit too defensive of whiteness and gone about things the wrong way. I definitely think some issues need to be discussed but I've gone about it wrongly. But it's never too late to change. I need to stop trying to see everything lately as an attack on whiteness, realise it's not an insult to me personally and chill out a bit more. I fight racism in little ways every day and call it out when I see it. I know I'm better than what I've shown here. I promise I'll re-assess the things I believe and try my best to get back to the way I used to be before now. I don't want to be like my cousin and turn racist over time. I've woken up a bit now. I'll try to change, I promise.

Thank you for acknowledging where you have gone wrong. I know from experience that it's not easy at first to admit that you have work to do with things like this, but it's the first step to making a positive change in yourself.

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StrawberryBlond
3 hours ago, Harry said:

Thank you for acknowledging where you have gone wrong. I know from experience that it's not easy at first to admit that you have work to do with things like this, but it's the first step to making a positive change in yourself.

Understand that I'm not admitting to being a racist, but I do admit to changing somewhat, becoming more unnecessarily defensive than I used to be and taking stuff too personally. At the end of the day, if I know I'm not racist, what other people think of white people shouldn't bother me. We are all just a representative for ourselves, after all. And almost all my offence is coming from the online world anyway (a world where some people can deliberately say controversial racial statements just to get views and gain viral status). If I just don't tune into that and live life in the real world, there'll be no need for me to be so angry over all this stuff. In any case, I hope we can now begin to repair things between us now that I've thrown my hands up and admitted I got some things wrong. I think you've had the distinct impression that I've come off as someone with a superiority complex, but I'm really not. I have flaws just like anyone else and yes, they can be hard to admit to but I know that it must be done.

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Yanko
On 7/14/2016 at 1:18 AM, Gaga Monster said:

How is that vile. More black people kill black people than cops kill innocent blacks. It is pretty rare for a cop to kill an African American for doing nothing, the only instance I saw was last week and 1 or 2 last year

why wont you just stop talking? 

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7 minutes ago, Yanko said:

why wont you just stop talking? 

Ikr :poot:

Been scrolling this thread and some people need to either get educated, or think twice before they post, it's actually quite bothering

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Thomas P
Just now, Paco said:

Ikr 

Been scrolling this thread and some people need to either get educated, or think twice before they post, it's actually quite bothering

Part of the problem is that ppl, many of which have commented relentlessly on this thread, are in such great need to prove to everybody that there isn't really a problem. This problem exists, open your eyes and you'll see it.

I’m a simple guy to please, if you like Melodrama, we chill.
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