Mobster 14,604 Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Well, you could still interpret it as Gaga trying to be strong for everyone in some almost Christian implication. I do think that BTW is the culmination of her early clash with the psychological problems that her fans projected on to her and her realization that she wanted to do something about it. But at the same time, in 2013 she described BTW simply as a way to show the world that she was just some metal loving chick So who knows, honestly. I don't like how she approaches her new eras, always diminishing her previous success... She knows she can take us for granted and tries reaching for new fans... It's very disappointing realizing where her real intentions lie... but anyways, as always, I'll keep on stanning But I'm only a man and I do what I can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koreku 2,387 Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 I mean, I always thought it was obvious that Gaga as a persona was an act we've seen pictures of her in high school wearing normal trendy teen clothes. However, stefani's always loved to be a performer and I think that's what makes Gaga more authentic than ever-- it's what stefani genuinely enjoys doing, even if she has to put on a 'persona'. She's an entertainer. You don't deserve a point of view if the only thing you see is you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Lady Gaga said since 2008 that Fusari gave her the name, and we know that she doesn't live in bubble dressed and wake up in space with an eye on her chin. It's just part of her imagination. She's Stefani. I don't get why this is a thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus 34,379 Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Lady Gaga said since 2008 that Fusari gave her the name, and we know that she doesn't live in bubble dressed and wake up in space with an eye on her chin. It's just part of her imagination. She's Stefani. I don't get why this is a thing.Haven't you seen the countless interviews where she, almost to the point of exasperation, stresses that there is absolutely no difference between Lady Gaga and her true identity? That this isn't an act? That she doesn't become someone else as soon as she leaves the cameras behind? That she doesn't dress in other outfits when the doors are closed?For years, she tried to remove the idea that Lady Gaga was a persona (which in itself is already quite ironic, since Benji is correct in reminding us that her stance on this particular issue was always a bit dubious) exactly because she thought that to assume it was, was an attack on her artistic integrity. Which makes her admittance that Lady Gaga was a persona all the more confusing and revealing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koreku 2,387 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Haven't you seen the countless interviews where she, almost to the point of exasperation, stresses that there is absolutely no difference between Lady Gaga and her true identity? That this isn't an act? That she becomes someone else as soon as she leaves the cameras behind? That she dresses in other outfits when the doors are closed? For years, she tried to remove the idea that Lady Gaga was a persona (which in itself is already quite ironic, since Benji is correct in reminding us that her stance on this particular issue was always a bit dubious) exactly because she thought that to assume it was, was an attack on her artistic integrity. Which makes her admittance that Lady Gaga was a persona all the more confusing and revealing. I think that over time, stefani's grown into gaga. It may have initially been an act, but eventually Gaga gave stefani courage and then both personas merged. So yes, I do think she has always been the same person behind doors-- Maybe not in 2008 or even a quarter of 2009. From what I know, stefani began preaching about gaga not being an act around 2011, and in that case she wasn't actually contradicting/lying You don't deserve a point of view if the only thing you see is you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester 6,302 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 ...until she actually had the balls now to say that the entire thing was a way to cope with her own problems, stripping her entire career of any artistic worth, basically. It's quite sad, actually, if she's really telling the truth.Why do you think that? Isn't art always a product of our own emotions, problems, pain etc...? I see Lady Gaga as the most honest and magnificent artistic creation she could've ever created, exactly because it came from a place of Stefani's inability to express herself that good in any other way and form. She believed in Lady Gaga so much that she lived through her all these years to the point of not going out of her apartment to save the mystery (in the first years at least). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitter 14 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Well I'm glad you know now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vertigostick 2,444 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I really don't get some of your comments.Yes, she created a larger-than-life stage character that helped her feel strong and brave. But it doesn't mean it was not genuine: Stefani has always been part of Gaga, she's her creator AND her vehicle, you cannot just split them into two separate entities. She's always been a "hybrid".There's no "contradiction" to what she said before, she hasn't "killed Lady Gaga" at all. She just shares more personal information about herself, her evolution, and she keeps growing as Lady Gaga and as Stefani.Stop the pointless drama, sistrens! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Monster Kid 13,140 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 She's always said Gaga is her there's no separation between the two. When did she say she was a character? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vertigostick 2,444 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 She's always said Gaga is her there's no separation between the two. When did she say she was a character?At that Yale event, she said she created Gaga to cope with her pain and insecurities.But as I mentioned before: it's no contradiction to the fact Stefani and Gaga cannot be separated from each other. She's just another bolder/braver version of herself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LebaneseDude 6,146 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 When you add the recent layer of "I just wanted to create someone who was stronger than me" on top of everything she said, it's almost the exact opposite artistic statement that she made back in 2008/early 2009.]\Isn't that the point though?In public Stefani WAS Lady Gaga. Why would she say otherwise in an interview for example? Edited just now by LebaneseDude. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus 34,379 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Why do you think that? Isn't art always a product of our own emotions, problems, pain etc...? I see Lady Gaga as the most honest and magnificent artistic creation she could've ever created, exactly because it came from a place of Stefani's inability to express herself that good in any other way and form. She believed in Lady Gaga so much that she lived through her all these years to the point of not going out of her apartment to save the mystery (in the first years at least).Well, I get where you're going but I tried to explain my point of view from my own perspective: as someone who looked at the artistic questions asked in The Fame independently and saw them deteriorate throughout her career.I agree that this revelation about her career makes you look at her early stuff with new eyes, but for me that's just not satisfying because it strips the artistic messages in her early years from their worth (in my opinion). She already had so much to say about identity and transformation in 2008 and early 2009 alone and, though I appreciate the idea of her presenting a similar idea in a very human form in her recent interviews, it's just the exact opposite approach. She unveiled her identity (and sometimes lack of it, on a conceptual level) through dense layering of artistic output and now she's just sitting in a chair, saying "that's just something I had to do to feel stronger" and though that of course absolutely makes perfect sense, it absolutely tears apart the ideas about artistry and celebrity culture she tried to present in The Fame. Lady Gaga was supposed to be a simultaneous clash of the public's perception of the ultimate pop star (presented as a grotesque) and Gaga's inner life and obsessions. Right now, it feels like she ripped the first part out of her career, especially when you look at her recent statements about what "the world" expects from her.I mean, I'm sure I'm not gonna convince anyone, but for me, personally, I do see a very big contradiction and though I already noted that it makes sense when you look at it from the present, that doesn't mean that you can't make conclusions about the evolution of her career. And the way I see it, you can make two conclusions:- It's wonderful that Gaga, through the creation of art, identities and a deliberate transformation, found herself and is willing to show exactly that to the public in a way that doesn't require what the world would call "gimmicks". She can just be honest and real now.- Though that may be wonderful, what was so attractive about Gaga in the first place was how she demanded the right to express herself honestly and "real" exactly as an artistic creation. The reality of identity is an unhappy marriage between how people perceive you (the public in her case) and your own inner life. You can't control either of them, and you don't understand the latter, which is why it comes more honestly through artistic processes of transformation. This is a very bold artistic statement that you can unravel in many different ways and it has relevance not only for how we see celebrity culture nowadays but also how we see ourselves and how a human personality can be seen in different ways. That she went from THAT to simply stating in very unmysterious words: "I'm a person suffering from anxiety and I created a persona to be stronger and to inspire people to be strong", from this perspective, seems like a massive decline in not only artistic value but also in message content, because we all knew that already in 2008 and now, after years of simultaneously applying and ripping off masks, she has to state the obvious. Instead of expressing not only herself but actual concepts that dominate society by simply living them out under the scrutiny of the public eye, adding a whole new dimension that was one of the most fascinating things about her. And now she wants to be seen actually as a person who invented all of that. I see that as artistic betrayal.But again: I totally understand the first perspective too and I don't disagree with it. I just am disappointed that she seems to have given up on her early arstistic journey which I saw as a higher and more important pursuit than what she's doing now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XoXoJoanneGaga 629 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I edited my post a bit 'cause I too felt it was a bit misleading I hope my added passage makes it clearer. It's just a personal disappointment because I, for one, thought her "character" was actually more inspiring, more intriguing and more challenging on a psychological level than her admitting that it was just a creation. But I totally understand how that can be different for a fan who sees it from the exact opposite direction, because I know that a lot of people here see The Fame just as some fun thing that isn't even so interesting. The Fame is by far her most interesting and inspiring era from an artistic standpoint, but some fans are more interested or more in need of the "mother" persona. It's kind of interesting seeing her trying to balance the two, being an enigmatic popstar while also being a relatable person who talks about her depression and struggles for the sake of fans who are going through the same things. I don't think the balance really works though, she's at her best when she completely throws herself into whatever role she's playing. So if she comes back next era trying to be the larger-than-life Lady Gaga that's been missing for so many years, while still retaining the more down-to-earth relatable demeanor I'm not sure it'll be convincing. I'm interested to see her try though lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus 34,379 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 The Fame is by far her most interesting and inspiring era from an artistic standpoint, but some fans are more interested or more in need of the "mother" persona. It's kind of interesting seeing her trying to balance the two, being an enigmatic popstar while also being a relatable person who talks about her depression and struggles for the sake of fans who are going through the same things. Yesssss EXACTLY! Perfectly put. I saw this transition during The Fame Monster and especially during Born This Way and, to be honest, it freaked me out 'cause I felt that her artistic message was basically falling apart and therefore looking.. well, unworthy of investigating. She went from living social commentary to the great singer who loves her fans so much and I was disappointed that she seemed to actively support this transition. I understand it better now, but yeah, I agree that the artistic result of her trying to do both (well, if I'm honest, she gave up trying in 2011 and only picked it back up very sporadically until the end of 2012) was just unconvincing and unsatisfying. So if she comes back next era trying to be the larger-than-life Lady Gaga that's been missing for so many years, while still retaining the more down-to-earth relatable demeanor I'm not sure it'll be convincing. I'm interested to see her try though lol I definitely think she'll settle for the relatable demeanor. It fits in perfectly with her wanting to be an actress. Just to repeat myself for others: I don't think that's a bad thing, but as a fan who indeed appreciated The Fame as an artistic explosion of promising magnitude I do think it should be obvious why I'm reluctant to cheer about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FGGrayson 9,670 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Lady Gaga said since 2008 that Fusari gave her the name, and we know that she doesn't live in bubble dressed and wake up in space with an eye on her chin. It's just part of her imagination. She's Stefani. I don't get why this is a thing.this /thread 𝗟𝗮𝗱𝘆 𝗚𝗮𝗴𝗮 • 𝗠𝗮𝗻𝗱𝘆 𝗠𝗼𝗼𝗿𝗲 • 𝗦𝗼𝗽𝗵𝗶𝗲-𝗘𝗹𝗹𝗶𝘀 𝗕𝗲𝘅𝘁𝗼𝗿 • 𝗣𝗮𝗿𝗶𝘀 𝗝𝗮𝗰𝗸𝘀𝗼𝗻 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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