Not-so-feminist Gaga?

[boniva4lyfe 0]

So, that is rape in your mind. The bad things.

Its not outside the realm of possibility. Who knows what gaga meant. Only she knows for sure, but I think its a reasonable interpretation of those two statements.

[Mast 980]

You do know that G.U.Y. is also about s-x and gender, two completely different things, and really reworking them, correct? G.U.Y. is about s-x, gender, and the act of s-x.

 

Until you really realize that G.U.Y. is about gender, s-x, and s-x, I don't really think you should be using it in a debate.

I know what s-x and gender are, no need to school me, psychology 101. 

 

But in the line "our s-xes tells us no lies" she is specifically talking about s-x, saying that the female s-x is considered the submissive s-x and rightfully so. 

Don't even get me started on gender because I could go on for ages on how the G.U.Y music video reinforces gender roles.

[Mast 980]

You need to read it again because that's now what she is saying. She said that women should not tell men what to do, not to do what men say.

Obviously, you are the one that needs to read it again. This is the first verse:

 

"I wanna be the girl under you (oh yeah)

I wanna be your G.U.Y (yeah)

I wanna be the grave and unearth you (oh yeah)

Our s-xes tell us no lies"

 

The first three lines are literally just her saying "I want to be under you" over and over again, and then she goes on to say that our s-xes tell us no likes, aka women are supposed to be submissive so I'm going to be submissive. And yes, the first two lines of the pre-chorus might be empowering, but the rest of the chorus is her petitioning a guy to touch her and she even asks for PERMISSION to be under him. I thought strong women did not need permission

[JazzGa 14,620]

I know, I didn't think this through before I posted it

 

But you seem to be handling it pretty maturely. I don't agree with everything in your original post, but I love how respectfully you're replying to everyone. :) 

 

Get that hit thread, gurl. 

[Computer 10,973]

R Kelly/Terry/Rick Ross, etc may be gross.  But G.U.Y. is neo feminism, I think.  It seems quite self aware.

 

We all know Gaga doesn't let men stick around or continue to do business with her, if she's not happy with them  

 

Edit: I know you're not talking about G.U.Y. specifically, but it's the example I'm using and I think she's saying these things in support of/in explanation of G.U.Y. and its themes.

[Nemo 4,291]

But in the line "our s-xes tells us no lies" she is specifically talking about s-x, saying that the female s-x is considered the submissive s-x and rightfully so.

I have a different interpretation of that line... but it's not necessarily any better, so I think I'll keep it to myself.

[Whispering 18,865]

Its not outside the realm of possibility. Who knows what gaga meant. Only she knows for sure, but I think its a reasonable interpretation of those two statements.

 

But it's not for certain and you are stating it as a fact, one that you have NO WAY of knowing is true or not at this time.

 

Gaga may say some more about the song more on the tour, or she may not, but right now you are stating your speculation as a fact.

[boniva4lyfe 0]

But it's not for certain and you are stating it as a fact, one that you have NO WAY of knowing is true or not at this time.

 

Gaga may say some more about the song more on the tour, or she may not, but right now you are stating your speculation as a fact.

I did not say Gaga was raped, so please do not put words in my mouth.  I said 1) she said the song was about rape 2) she said the song was about something bad that happened to her 3) that the song being about her rape (since she said the song was about something bad that happened to her) is not outside the realm of possibility, because given those two statements, a rape having occurred is a reasonable conclusion and 4) that NO ONE BUT GAGA KNOWS. Saying something is "not outside the realm of possibility" is inherently saying that something is not fact but is possible. Work on your reading comprehension skills, for real. 

[Whispering 18,865]

I did not say Gaga was raped, so please do not put words in my mouth.  I said 1) she said the song was about rape 2) she said the song was about something bad that happened to her 3) that the song being about her rape (since she said the song was about something bad that happened to her) is not outside the realm of possibility, because given those two statements, a rape having occurred is a reasonable conclusion and 4) that NO ONE BUT GAGA KNOWS. Saying something is "not outside the realm of possibility" is inherently saying that something is not fact but is possible. Work on your reading comprehension skills, for real.

My reading comprehension skills are fine. You are jumping to a conclusion. It could end up being correct, but it could also be a false conclusion. At this point, we do not know what Gaga was referring to with her statement at SXSW.

[Celina 118]

Obviously, you are the one that needs to read it again. This is the first verse:

 

"I wanna be the girl under you (oh yeah)

I wanna be your G.U.Y (yeah)

I wanna be the grave and unearth you (oh yeah)

Our s-xes tell us no lies"

 

The first three lines are literally just her saying "I want to be under you" over and over again, and then she goes on to say that our s-xes tell us no likes, aka women are supposed to be submissive so I'm going to be submissive. And yes, the first two lines of the pre-chorus might be empowering, but the rest of the chorus is her petitioning a guy to touch her and she even asks for PERMISSION to be under him. I thought strong women did not need permission

Sadly, she doesn't seem to know what third-wave feminism is. She always calls herself a new age feminist and then says she has no problem being submissive, but that's not what 3rd-wavefeminism is about. 3rd wave is about acknowledging that women can be s-xual in the way that men are, and s-xuality can become empowering. That is not to say that the media should keep using women as objects, but that it is okay for women to want to look s-xy. 

 

She was going on the right track until, on G.U.Y, she wrote "our s-xes tell us no lies"

 

The lyric is actually "our s-x doesn't tell us no lies," so it holds a completely different meaning... If she's singing about her own s-x life, how is that necessarily reinforcing gender roles? Is she not allowed to express how she personally feels comfortable with s-x just because she apparently enjoys being submissive? 

 

She is a strong woman in pretty much every aspect of her life, and she acknowledges that. If she wants to be submissive in bed, why should we hold that against her? 

 

okay that was REALLY awkward to talk about

Anyway, I do think that she might still have some misunderstandings when it comes to feminism, and I think she probably could have worded that recent quote better, but unless I'm misinterpreting your posts, I get the feeling that you find her view or portrayal of her personal life to be problematic, and I can't agree with that...

[Ladle Ghoulash 23,663]

I've been troubled lately with what I see as a pattern with Gagz. Partnering with Rick Ross, R. Kelly, and Terry Richardson, it seems that quite a few of her collaborations are super tone-deaf to women's issues (all these guys are super rapey/gross, and not artistically great enough to justify looking past their wrong-doings). On top of that, now I hear that she said in a recent interview:

 

 

For being so socially forward on LGBT issues, I find this streak in her pretty troubling, actually. Feminism is about choice, sure, but I can't ignore the fact that she seems to have a pretty huge blind spot on women's issues. "It's not good for relationships to tell men what to do." I'd say it's not great for any relationship for people to be controlled or told what to do, both for men AND women. And thinking its great to have the "man in charge" instead of an equal partnership seems really antiquated and disappointing to me coming from one of my favs.

 

Am I picking up on something, or reading too far into her actions and words?

Where is that quote of Gaga's from and how recent is it? I remember her saying **** like that at the beginning of her career, but I didn't think she'd be saying that stuff as of late.

[Karandr 150]

Yeah it's kinda questionable of her to say that line regarding her relationship. I sense that Gaga likes the idea of feminism but struggles a bit with actually following up (in that she supports artists who are known abusers and says problematic stuff on occasion).

I mean I see where she's coming from in that modern feminism has a strong focus on enthusiastic consent -- if you *want* someone to take charge s-xually, then go ahead, let them know. But I think Gaga makes the mistake of generalising that men shouldn't be told what to do in relationships which is just ... silly and not helpful.

So yeah. She tried, I guess (as usual in these kind of issues :p)

[boniva4lyfe 0]

Yeah it's kinda questionable of her to say that line regarding her relationship. I sense that Gaga likes the idea of feminism but struggles a bit with actually following up (in that she supports artists who are known abusers and says problematic stuff on occasion).

I mean I see where she's coming from in that modern feminism has a strong focus on enthusiastic consent -- if you *want* someone to take charge s-xually, then go ahead, let them know. But I think Gaga makes the mistake of generalising that men shouldn't be told what to do in relationships which is just ... silly and not helpful.

So yeah. She tried, I guess (as usual in these kind of issues :P)

 

Apparently it was from her Sirius interview (which I haven't listened to, just read the recap: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/lady-gaga-boyfriend-taylor-kinney-charge-relationship-article-1.1733977)

 

Anyways, she seems super happy, so whatever works for her.

[gimmesomemore 0]

gaga's all about service, she'll serve anyone hungry enough for some fame b---h! GET SOME!

 

[Miel 15,009]

I still think Gaga is a positive feminine role model. Where a lot of her contemporaries still use s-x and s-x imagery in traditional submissive manners (or, just as bad, anti-feminine and anti-s-xual and sometimes misogynistic), Gaga would use the same imagery and subvert it into a statement on its own (BTWB imagery with the meat, Aura performance at SXSW).

 

Also, I hold Scheiße to high regards.

 

I always perceived G.U.Y. as both an incredibly feminine s-x-positive song, and also a gender neutral song. A lot of the lyrics play on traditional s-xual roles of women, and how while it may be seen as traditionally submissive it is instead empowering (putting the girl in the role traditionally seen from the guy, or something).

 

But then, this

 

 

It’s not good for relationships to tell men what to do.

 

I mean, maybe I'm taking it out of context, but I'm not a fan of that particular quote. Understandably, maybe she's saying it with the general sense that it's not good in relationships to tell either partner what to do? I don't know, maybe this is how Gaga perceives and enjoys her own s-xuality, and it's none of my business. I guess I just don't agree in the general sense.

 

 

Obviously, you are the one that needs to read it again. This is the first verse:

 

"I wanna be the girl under you (oh yeah)
I wanna be your G.U.Y (yeah)
I wanna be the grave and earth you (oh yeah)
Our s-x doesn't tell us no lies"

 

The first three lines are literally just her saying "I want to be under you" over and over again, and then she goes on to say that our s-xes tell us no likes, aka women are supposed to be submissive so I'm going to be submissive. And yes, the first two lines of the pre-chorus might be empowering, but the rest of the chorus is her petitioning a guy to touch her and she even asks for PERMISSION to be under him. I thought strong women did not need permission

 

What are the official lyrics? The ones that I bolded in correction are what I hear instead. Not that it'd make any difference, but still.