The World of Middle Earth

[VforVendetta 2,024]

Indeed wish I was more like him, I love fiction and all this creative stuff such an amazing mind. And I don't care what people say I think Peter Jackson did the best he could to translate his works for the modern audience and remain as faithful as he could.

The movies are a work of their own and they are masterpieces. They gave things to the world and they didn't only rely to the books. Many claim that the movies are better than the books themselves and I can't blame them.

Silmarillion is basically about the creation of the world, and how Morgoth (the Dark god, the superior to Sauron) tried numerous times to annihalate it together with his accomplice Sauron. With the peak of the story being the downfall of Númenor an island between the realm of Valinor (where the gods and elves reside) and Middle earth and Beleriand. The downfall of Númenor is kinda Tolkiens version of Atlantis, but then with Sauron being the trigger of the downfall. If they ever manage to make a movie out of it, it will slay 100000000x the Lord Of The Rings tbh

Actually Silmarillion can't become a movie easily. The way the book is written, the width and the nature of the story and characters etc makes it almost impossible.

[Robotboy 1,700]

well im really glad there can be alot more movies from this world.

[Bye 3,947]

Silmarillion is basically about the creation of the world, and how Morgoth (the Dark god, the superior to Sauron) tried numerous times to annihalate it together with his accomplice Sauron. With the peak of the story being the downfall of Númenor an island between the realm of Valinor (where the gods and elves reside) and Middle earth and Beleriand. The downfall of Númenor is kinda Tolkiens version of Atlantis, but then with Sauron being the trigger of the downfall. If they ever manage to make a movie out of it, it will slay 100000000x the Lord Of The Rings tbh

Actually I've read that at some point (I think in second age) at the height of his power Sauron managed to become as strong if not stronger than Morgoth although I don't know the validity of this since Melkor was of a higher hierarchy, basically an archangel when compared to sauron who was just an "Angel" when we compare Tolkienism with modern religions. The Silmarillion would do great as a tv series.

The movies are a work of their own and they are masterpieces. They gave things to the world and they didn't only rely to the books. Many claim that the movies are better than the books themselves and I can't blame them.Actually Silmarillion can't become a movie easily. The way the book is written, the width and the nature of the story and characters etc makes it almost impossible.

well im really glad there can be alot more movies from this world.

There won't be more movies since the Tolkien Estate who hold all rights to Tolkien's work have declared they will no longer sell rights for further works. Apparently they're not happy with the recent movies. It's their prerogative but I think they're being a bit stuck up. The movies have introduced newer and younger generations to the works of Tolkien. And even with the changes Jackson and co have made, it shows how much the makers love the source material and all its intricate details.

[VforVendetta 2,024]

Actually I've read that at some point (I think in second age) at the height of his power Sauron managed to become as strong if not stronger than Morgoth although I don't know the validity of this since Melkor was of a higher hierarchy, basically an archangel when compared to sauron who was just an "Angel" when we compare Tolkienism with modern religions. The Silmarillion would do great as a tv series.

There won't be more movies since the Tolkien Estate who hold all rights to Tolkien's work have declared they will no longer sell rights for further works. Apparently they're not happy with the recent movies. It's their prerogative but I think they're being a bit stuck up. The movies have introduced newer and younger generations to the works of Tolkien. And even with the changes Jackson and co have made, it shows how much the makers love the source material and all its intricate details.

Sauron was never as powerful as Morgoth because he is a Maiar while Morgoth a Valar. You remember right though and what you remember is: "Sauron was as bad as his master with the only difference that Sauron was obeying someone else." Both Sauron and Morgoth wanted to wield the minds of others. The difference is that Sauron was corrupted and became evil while Morgoth was evil from his core. Because of his desire to have all the light for himself when he couldn't obtain it his heart became full of darkness. Morgoth was envious of everyone, maybe including Sauron himself. His will on all of his servants including Sauron was huge and it remained huge even after the fall of Angband the the lock of Mordor out of the walls of Night. Sauron was with difference the most powerful Mair ever and eventhough he was strong is combact his biggest power was deceive (this is why they called him Sauron The Deceiver). He could weild the minds of others into his will.

[Robotboy 1,700]

 

There won't be more movies since the Tolkien Estate who hold all rights to Tolkien's work have declared they will no longer sell rights for further works. Apparently they're not happy with the recent movies. It's their prerogative but I think they're being a bit stuck up. The movies have introduced newer and younger generations to the works of Tolkien. And even with the changes Jackson and co have made, it shows how much the makers love the source material and all its intricate details.

 

oh. well, they totally blew new life in "the hobbit" which IMO sucks.

[Curunir 7,510]

It's simply amazing that such perfect movies have been made out of even more perfect books. The whole world of Middle-earth is absolutely ideal and quintessential in terms of fantasy literature

Welcome to the official Tolkien & Middle Earth Appreciation and discussion thread

Follow this thread to stay tuned.

> Here You can talk about all Tolkien's works regarding The Middle Earth from the beginning of time and the birth of the Ainur till the destruction of The RIng Of Power, the leaving of the ring barrers or even the beginning of the 4th age.

> You can also discuss here the Peter Jackson movies of The Lord Of The Rings and The Hobbit.

> Last but not least you cam also post here fan art or other pieces of art regarding Middle Earth

Welcome to the epicest and most perfect world a human mind has ever created. A world that you can always travel whenever you can't bare your own reality.

P.S. 'barrers' and 'bare' should be 'bearers' and 'bear' 

A lot of people confuse them, so I just wanna help

[VforVendetta 2,024]

It's simply amazing that such perfect movies have been made out of even more perfect books. The whole world of Middle-earth is absolutely ideal and quintessential in terms of fantasy literature

P.S. 'barrers' and 'bare' should be 'bearers' and 'bear'

A lot of people confuse them, so I just wanna help

Thanks! I always confuse them. :sweat:

[Bye 3,947]

Sauron was never as powerful as Morgoth because he is a Maiar while Morgoth a Valar. You remember right though and what you remember is: "Sauron was as bad as his master with the only difference that Sauron was obeying someone else." Both Sauron and Morgoth wanted to wield the minds of others. The difference is that Sauron was corrupted and became evil while Morgoth was evil from his core. Because of his desire to have all the light for himself when he couldn't obtain it his heart became full of darkness. Morgoth was envious of everyone, maybe including Sauron himself. His will on all of his servants including Sauron was huge and it remained huge even after the fall of Angband the the lock of Mordor out of the walls of Night. Sauron was with difference the most powerful Mair ever and eventhough he was strong is combact his biggest power was deceive (this is why they called him Sauron The Deceiver). He could weild the minds of others into his will.

J.R.R.Tolkien, written c. 1958, edited and published by Christopher Tolkien in The History of Middle Earth volume X: Morgoth's Ring, Houghton Mifflin, 1993.

Excerpts follow:

*

Sauron was ‘greater’, effectively, in the Second Age than Morgoth at the end of the First. Why? Because, though he was far smaller by natural stature, he had not yet fallen so low.

Eventually he also squandered his power (of being) in the endeavor to gain control of others. But he was not obliged to expend so much of himself. To gain domination over Arda, Morgoth had let most of his being pass into the physical constituents of the Earth – hence all things that were born on Earth and live on and by it, beasts or plants or incarnate spirits, were liable to be ‘stained’.

Morgoth at the time of the War of the Jewels had become permanently ‘incarnate’: for this reason he was afraid, and waged the war almost entirely by means of devices, or of subordinates and dominated creatures.

Sauron, however, inherited the ‘corruption’ of Arda, and only spent his (much more limited) power on the Rings; for it was the creatures of earth, in their minds and wills, that he desired to dominate. In this way Sauron was also wiser than Melkor-Morgoth. Sauron was not a beginner of discord; and he probably knew more of the ‘Music’ than did Melkor, whose mind had always been filled with his own plans and devices, and gave little attention to other things.

The time of Melkor’s greatest power, therefore, was in the physical beginnings of the World; a vast demiurgic lust for power and the achievement of his own will and designs, on a great scale. (…)

Apparently Sauron was greater at one point because he hadn't fallen so far. To be honest, Tolkien's view of power is really hard to grasp, it's like there isn't a scale of power at all and the more evil the more limited the powers, like Morgoth and Sauron no longer able to take a fair shape. It's really interesting and unique, very different to many other pieces of fiction where the evil persona has so much dark power.

oh. well, they totally blew new life in "the hobbit" which IMO sucks.

I love the hobbit film series, it's less dark but then again the book was very light and less dark when compared to LOTR.

[VforVendetta 2,024]

Apparently Sauron was greater at one point because he hadn't fallen so far. To be honest, Tolkien's view of power is really hard to grasp, it's like there isn't a scale of power at all and the more evil the more limited the powers, like Morgoth and Sauron no longer able to take a fair shape. It's really interesting and unique, very different to many other pieces of fiction where the evil persona has so much dark power.

I love the hobbit film series, it's less dark but then again the book was very light and less dark when compared to LOTR.

Indeed I wanted to mention that but I had to type for much more. Morgoth spent his power to corruption and evil he eventually lost his former strength. Sauron was probably at one point more powerful than this Morgoth but not the actual Melkor (during the battle of Powers and the reign of Utumno). Sauron did something similar himself though when he put a portion of his power on the ring of Power so that he could control the others. The difference is that when Sauron was wearing the ring he had all his initial strength without losing power and he factually gained more power since has had influence to all the other magical rings. Still Sauron also lost a huge part of his power when he lost the ring of Power. When Morgoth breaks the doors of night and returns to Arda though during the final battle he will have his full strength. And well done to you for making that amazing noticing . Tolkien had a very unique perspective of darkeness. He always considered that those that fell into darkness spend their powers for themselves and so they lost their former glory. It also has to do with the fact that they went against the will of Eru Illuvatar.

[Bye 3,947]

Tolkien was a genius, really

I have always been confused by something. In the battle at the end of the second age was Sauron first defeated conventionally in combat and then the ring cut off of his body after he was struck down or wad it like in the movie prologue with Isildur cutting off his ring and causing the defeat of the Dark Lord and his spirit to be vanquished four thousands of years?

It seems a bit silly that with the ring Sauron made himself more vulnerable in case he lost it...I'm more inclined to believe he was defeated in combat by Elendil and Gil-galad who died to defeat hin, and then Isildur cut off the ring. Wouldn't it be stupid to create a ring to make you more powerful only to almost die if someone took it?

Defeat in combat would make more sense since by being overthrown his spirit was broken and since the ring was taken he couldn't get his powers back until he found the ring (once his spirit has recovered from the defeat).

[VforVendetta 2,024]

Tolkien was a genius, really

I have always been confused by something. In the battle at the end of the second age was Sauron first defeated conventionally in combat and then the ring cut off of his body after he was struck down or wad it like in the movie prologue with Isildur cutting off his ring and causing the defeat of the Dark Lord and his spirit to be vanquished four thousands of years?

It seems a bit silly that with the ring Sauron made himself more vulnerable in case he lost it...I'm more inclined to believe he was defeated in combat by Elendil and Gil-galad who died to defeat hin, and then Isildur cut off the ring. Wouldn't it be stupid to create a ring to make you more powerful only to almost die if someone took it?

Defeat in combat would make more sense since by being overthrown his spirit was broken and since the ring was taken he couldn't get his powers back until he found the ring (once his spirit has recovered from the defeat).

It is not really cleared out how exactly the ring was cut from Saurons hand, prbably during combat.

 

As for the ring of power no sauron was very clever to put his strenth on an item that he could wear and so he would not lose it. One of the 12 books of The History Of Middle earth is called Morgoth's ring fo power. In that book is clarified that the vessel that Melkor put his power was Arda, the world so he was losing his power without having the ability to claim it back. Sauron learned from his master's mistake and so he put his power in a vessel that would sustain it all and actually even increase it, the ring of power. Of course the ring was cut from his hand eventually but even in that occasion the ring with his power was still excisting and so even then his power was not lost. Anyway Sauron , even if he was very fierce in combat he would always fight himself as a last option (like Morgoth) because his greatest power of all was to affect the wills of others and deceive everyone under his own will. He destroed Akallabeth (Numenor) without even using any magical powers.The difference between Melkor and Sauron is that while Sauron wanted to rule the will and creatures in Arda, Melkor wanted to create Arda under his own vision. This why he spend all his power on breeding creatured like Dragons, twisting powerful spirits liek the Balrogs and even creating Mountains like the Thangorodrim.

 

This is one of my favorite dialogues. It's between Morgoth and Hurin when he captured his and brought him to Angband:

 

 

Hurin was brought before Morgoth, for Morgoth knew by his arts and his spies that Hurin had the friendship of the King of Gondolin; and he sought to daunt him with his eyes. But Hurin could not yet be daunted, and he defied Morgoth. Therefore Morgoth had him chained and set in slow torment; but after a while he came to him,and offered him his choice to go free whither he would, or to receive power and rank as the greatest of Morgoth's captains, if he would but reveal where Turgon had his stronghold, and aught else that he knew of the King's counsels. But Hurin the Steadfast mocked him saying: "Blind you are Morgoth Bauglir, and blind shall ever be, seeing only the dark. You know not what rules the hearts of Men, and if you knew you could not give it. But a fool is he who accepts what Morgoth offers. You will take first the price and then withhold the promise; and I should get only death, if I told you what you ask."

    Then Morgoth laughed, and he said: "Death you may yet crave from me as a boon." Then he took Hurin to the Haudh-en-Nirnaeth, and it was then new-built and the reek of death was upon it; and Morgoth set Hurin upon its top and bade him look west towards Hithlum, and think of his wife and his son and other kin. "For they dwell now in my realm," said Morgoth, "and they are at my mercy."

    "You have none," answered Hurin. "But you will not come at Turgon through them; for they do not know his secrets."

    Then wrath mastered Morgoth, and he said: "Yet I may come at you, and all your accursed house; and you shall be broken on my will, though you all be made of steel." And he took up a long sword that lay there and broke it before the eyes of Hurin, and a splinter wounded his face; but Hurin did not blench. Then Morgoth stretching out his long arm towards Dor-Lomin cursed Hurin and Morwen and their offspring, saying: "Behold! The shadow of my thought shall lie upon them wherever they go, and my hate shall pursue them to the ends of the world."

    But Hurin said: "You speak in vain. For you cannot see them, nor govern them from afar: not while you keep this shape, and desire still to be a King visible upon earth."

    Then Morgoth turned upon Hurin, and he said: "Fool, little among Men, and they are the least of all that speak! Have you seen the Valar, or measured the power of Manwe and Varda? Do you know the reach of their thought? Or do you think, perhaps, that their thought is upon you, and that they may shield you from afar?"

    " I know not," said Hurin. "Yet so it might be, if they willed. For the Elder King shall not be dethroned while Arda endures."

    You say it," said Morgoth. "I am the Elder King: Melkor, first and mightiest of the Valar, who was before the world, and made it. The shadow of my purpose lies upon Arda, and all that is in it bends slowly and surely to my will. But upon all whom you love my thought shall weigh as a cloud of Doom, and it shall bring them down into darkness and despair. Wherever they go, evil shall arise. Whenever they speak, their words shall bring ill counsel. Whatsoever they do shall turn against them. They shall die without hope, cursing both life and death."

    But Hurin answered: "Do you forget to whom you speak? Such things you spoke long ago to our fathers; but we escaped from your shadow. And now we have knowledge of you, for we have looked upon the faces that have seen the light, and heard the voices that have spoken with Manwe. Before Arda you were, but others also; and you did not make it. Neither are you the most mighty; for you spent your strength upon yourself and wasted it in your own emptiness. No more are you now than an escaped thrall of the Valar. And their chain still awaits you."

    "You have learned the lessons of your masters by rote," said Morgoth. "But such childish lore shall not help you, now they are all fled away."

    "This last I say to you, thrall Morgoth," said Hurin, "and it comes not from the lore of the Eldar, but is put into my heart this hour. You are not the Lord of Men, and shall not be, though all Arda and Menel fall in your dominion. Beyond the Circles of the World you shall not pursue those who refuse you."

    "Beyond the Circles of the World I will not pursue them," said Morgoth. "For beyond the Circles of the World there is Nothing. But within them they shall not escape me, until they enter into Nothing."

    "You lie," said Hurin.

    "You shall see and you shall confess that I do not lie," said Morgoth. And taking Hurin back to Angband he set him in a chair of stone upon a high place of Thangorodrim, from which he could see afar the land of Hithlum in the west and the lands of Beleriand to the south. There he was bound by the power of Morgoth; and Morgoth standing beside him cursed him again and set his power upon him, so that he could not move from that place, or die, until Morgoth should release him.

    "Sit now there," said Morgoth,"and look out upon the lands where evil and despair shall come upon those whom you have delivered to me. For you have dared to mock me, and have questioned the power of Melkor, Master of the fates of Arda. Therefore with my eyes you shall see, and with my ears you shall hear, and nothing shall be hidden from you."

This dialogue is from the Unfinished Tales.

[VforVendetta 2,024]

Fan ART and not only:

 

Ungoliant tries to obtain the Silmarillis drom Morgoth:

 

Morgoth vs Fingolfin:

 

Ulmo rises from the Sea to counsil Tuor:

 

The CIty Of Gondolin:

 

The fall of Gondolin:

 

Sauron The Deceiver ( Gorthaur the Cruel):

[Didymus 34,379]

 

 

Those are just totally my style, omg *sighs* Such wonder in this mythology, it's incredible. Sometimes it's a little bit too much, like you're deciding to read the history of an entire civilization. Which is what makes it so genius.

[Scarlet Witch 1,066]

YAAAAS I've been waiting for someone to start this thread for a long time

[VforVendetta 2,024]

Those are just totally my style, omg *sighs* Such wonder in this mythology, it's incredible. Sometimes it's a little bit too much, like you're deciding to read the history of an entire civilization. Which is what makes it so genius.

Its a coincidence but these 2 pics are also covers of my books. The first one is also used as the cover of my Silmarion copy and the second one as the cover of The Two Towers. I'll post more later. Im glad you liked them. :)