Portugal bans burqas in public spaces

[JustTea 6,967]

18 hours ago, Main Pop Girl said:

Because no Muslims have ever been born in Portugal? You sound like a leotard

18 hours ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Making the assumption that there are no Portuguese citizens who are Muslim is wild lol

Why should any religion require you to wear such outfit? That's beyond stupid, just like religions in general... 

[Ladle Ghoulash 55,141]

6 minutes ago, JustTea said:

Why should any religion require you to wear such outfit? That's beyond stupid, just like religions in general... 

I never said they should? It’s just not the role of the state to police religions.

[Sepsami 21,053]

20 minutes ago, Bronco said:

Criticism isn't a facist law though is it?

Ofcourse not, but it gets a little tiring to feel like people are breathing down my neck because I have legitimate concerns about Islam and it's future in western countries. I feel like I can't even say that without being branded as a racist or facist on here.

[Bronco 27,032]

1 minute ago, Sepsami said:

Ofcourse not, but it gets a little tiring to feel like people are breathing down my neck because I have legitimate concerns about Islam and it's future in western countries. I feel like I can't even say that without being branded as a racist or facist on here.

Because of the lense you talk about it from.

Its a major red flag. 

Especially as I only see you acknowledge issues with other religions when called out on this weird /western/ lense you keep trying to use. 

[Sepsami 21,053]

12 minutes ago, Bronco said:

Because of the lense you talk about it from.

Its a major red flag. 

Especially as I only see you acknowledge issues with other religions when called out on this weird /western/ lense you keep trying to use. 

What? Give me an example of what my weird lense is. 

[Ladle Ghoulash 55,141]

1 minute ago, Sepsami said:

What? Give me an example of what my weird lense is. 

In the comment they quoted, you said Islam was “incompatible with Western society” as if it’s somehow uniquely incompatible with western society. All the while, Christian nationalism is making a far more concerted effort than Islamic fundamentalists to destroy liberal democracy and impose their religious values on others and, often times, those Christian nationalists are the same folks passing the laws above.

I genuinely don’t think a lot of folks on here have issues with criticizing Islam or religion in general as practices or social ideologies, but those critiques do read differently in the context of state overreach and abridgment of civil liberties (especially when it’s only targeted towards Muslims and not religious attire more broadly). The critiques of those religious fundamentalists are not mutually exclusive and I think often go hand in hand, but I personally wouldn’t even support the state cracking down on evangelicals practicing their faith, so at least for me, it’s not a touchiness about Islam as much as it is an interest in protecting people who are being wrongfully singled out and in the interest of religious and civil liberties more broadly.

[Sepsami 21,053]

19 hours ago, Zedd said:

To be honest - their country, their rules - others should comply, not to sound Islamophobic. If they can't or don't want to comply, that's their problem.

Coming to another country - follow the rules

People give this same reasoning whenever a nation outlaws gay marriage or supports female genital mutilation, it really doesn't make any sense.

[Bronco 27,032]

13 minutes ago, Sepsami said:

What? Give me an example of what my weird lense is. 

I literally did. 

In every post I've called out the weird attempt to label it as a west vs islam issue because that's incredibly ahistorical, problematic and borrowing from alt-right/modern right wing discourse which is just christian nationalism. 

Its not a west vs islam issue.

Because islam is not some imported product into the west. 

Islam was present in western nations including Portugal and Spain from around 710AD. 

It predates one of the main european sects of christian worship (protestantism) by around 800 years. 

Islam is an abrahamic religion. Christianity traces its origins back to Abraham. 

And the patriarchal oppression inherent in many Islamic sect's dogma is near identical to the same patriarchal systems of oppression within all major non-islamic religions in the west.

Continually using blatant  christian nationalist rhetoric is a red flag.

[Dante J 54]

5 minutes ago, LM said:

100 % agree. Respect European culture or go home.

Disgusting comment reported 👎🏻

[Dante J 54]

1 hour ago, JustTea said:

Why should any religion require you to wear such outfit? That's beyond stupid, just like religions in general... 

people can wear whatever the **** they want it is non of your business .

Edited August 25 by Dante J

[Sepsami 21,053]

1 hour ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

In the comment they quoted, you said Islam was “incompatible with Western society” as if it’s somehow uniquely incompatible with western society. All the while, Christian nationalism is making a far more concerted effort than Islamic fundamentalists to destroy liberal democracy and impose their religious values on others and, often times, those Christian nationalists are the same folks passing the laws above.

I genuinely don’t think a lot of folks on here have issues with criticizing Islam or religion in general as practices or social ideologies, but those critiques do read differently in the context of state overreach and abridgment of civil liberties (especially when it’s only targeted towards Muslims and not religious attire more broadly). The critiques of those religious fundamentalists are not mutually exclusive and I think often go hand in hand, but I personally wouldn’t even support the state cracking down on evangelicals practicing their faith, so at least for me, it’s not a touchiness about Islam as much as it is an interest in protecting people who are being wrongfully singled out and in the interest of religious and civil liberties more broadly.

 

58 minutes ago, Bronco said:

I literally did. 

In every post I've called out the weird attempt to label it as a west vs islam issue because that's incredibly ahistorical, problematic and borrowing from alt-right/modern right wing discourse which is just christian nationalism. 

Its not a west vs islam issue.

Because islam is not some imported product into the west. 

Islam was present in western nations including Portugal and Spain from around 710AD. 

It predates one of the main european sects of christian worship (protestantism) by around 800 years. 

Islam is an abrahamic religion. Christianity traces its origins back to Abraham. 

And the patriarchal oppression inherent in many Islamic sect's dogma is near identical to the same patriarchal systems of oppression within all major non-islamic religions in the west.

Continually using blatant  christian nationalist rhetoric is a red flag.

See this is what I meant earlier when I said that there's a big difference between the US and Europe (my country Belgium). Christian Nationalists simply do not have anywhere near the same influence here as they do in the US.

We're essentially having a different discussion.

Islam as it is is oppressive and doesn't fit in a modern society that values democracy, freedom and equality. Regardless of it's history. That's what people are concerned about. 

Edited August 25 by Sepsami

[Bronco 27,032]

1 hour ago, Sepsami said:

 

See this is what I meant earlier when I said that there's a big difference between the US and Europe (my country Belgium). Christian Nationalists simply do not have anywhere near the same influence here as they do in the US.

We're essentially having a different discussion.

Islam as it is is oppressive and doesn't fit in a modern society that values democracy, freedom and equality. Regardless of it's history. That's what people are concerned about. 

You can keep trying to play this US vs European card on me sis.

But I'm European. 

And if we want to talk about Christian nationalism having less influence in Europe than the US. That again is just blatant ignorance. 

Marine Le Pen is polling at her highest ever numbers. 

AfD are polling at their highest ever numbers. 

In the UK, Reform are at the strongest the far-right nationalist vote has ever been in the country's history. 

The Portuguese law in question in this topic is part of a number of measures by Portuguese politicians to capture the growing vote for the far right christian nationalists. 

Christian nationalists have literally dominated Hungary for over a decade only losing power this year. 

The Italian PM is pro-Mussolini

Christian nationalists have been in power or are the main opposition parties in multiple eastern European states. 

All of these parties are in a position of major influence - far more so than any islamic group in these nations. All of these christian nationalist groups are actively shaping legislation and forcing their domestic overton window to move further right towards them. 

The AfD in the past 24 hours have started openly advocating for kicking disabled kids out of mainstream schooling in Germany. 

The Reform party since the weekend have announced that in power they would penalise childless families and single mothers attempting to get social housing. 

Honestly sis, look outside the window and look at the brown shirts marching past. You've got Trump blindness. 

Edited August 25 by Bronco

[River 128,338]

1 hour ago, Sepsami said:

 

See this is what I meant earlier when I said that there's a big difference between the US and Europe (my country Belgium). Christian Nationalists simply do not have anywhere near the same influence here as they do in the US.

We're essentially having a different discussion.

Islam as it is is oppressive and doesn't fit in a modern society that values democracy, freedom and equality. Regardless of it's history. That's what people are concerned about. 

 

11 minutes ago, Bronco said:

The Italian PM is pro-Mussolini

The famous speech 

 

"We will fight against the Islamization of Europe, because we have no intention of becoming a Muslim continent"

"I am Giorgia, I am a woman, I am a mother, I am Italian, I am Christian. You will not take that away from me!"

 

It's the Christian fascism of Europe in all it's glory... Christianity is rooted inside the European racism.

[HEARTSTOP 3,160]

Portuguese here. This is just a distraction while they're selling away our public services to private corporations. The current government, with the help of their favorite fascists (at the end they're just the same as them, just playing good cop/bad cop), has done zero things to help the people in Portugal, but has been working hard and fast to strip away our rights and infrastructure.

There's maybe like 4 total people in Portugal who might wear a burqa in public, and now we lost the right to protect ourselves from AI mass surveilance.

It's also very interesting that neonazis march the streets with their faces covered and get protected by the police...

[Sepsami 21,053]

17 hours ago, Bronco said:

You can keep trying to play this US vs European card on me sis.

But I'm European. 

And if we want to talk about Christian nationalism having less influence in Europe than the US. That again is just blatant ignorance. 

Marine Le Pen is polling at her highest ever numbers. 

AfD are polling at their highest ever numbers. 

In the UK, Reform are at the strongest the far-right nationalist vote has ever been in the country's history. 

The Portuguese law in question in this topic is part of a number of measures by Portuguese politicians to capture the growing vote for the far right christian nationalists. 

Christian nationalists have literally dominated Hungary for over a decade only losing power this year. 

The Italian PM is pro-Mussolini

Christian nationalists have been in power or are the main opposition parties in multiple eastern European states. 

All of these parties are in a position of major influence - far more so than any islamic group in these nations. All of these christian nationalist groups are actively shaping legislation and forcing their domestic overton window to move further right towards them. 

The AfD in the past 24 hours have started openly advocating for kicking disabled kids out of mainstream schooling in Germany. 

The Reform party since the weekend have announced that in power they would penalise childless families and single mothers attempting to get social housing. 

Honestly sis, look outside the window and look at the brown shirts marching past. You've got Trump blindness. 

Please do not speak to me about Trump blindness.  I have nothing to do with that clown or the US in general. I do however know what goes on in my streets, my city and Brussels. I just think it would be a lot more productive to invite people to share their view and experiences, as people on here come from all over world. Slamming them as being racist, fascist or alt-right is unnecessary. This also goes beyond just politics, it's about ideology, identity and values aswell.