💔🏳️‍🌈🇩🇪Berlin pride: several injured, one dead after vehicle drove into crowd

[onTheBrink 1,316]

At the end of the day I think one of the most traumatic things about being a minority is being scapegoated by society, having the finger pointed and your character attacked because of what someone else has done. So when stuff like this happens, involving another minority group, as an LGBTQ community it's our responsibility to make sure that scapegoating doesn't happen. As the culture shifts more and more right it's shocking how many people I see forgetting the importance of that. Protect the COALITION. 

Edited July 26 by onTheBrink

[gagzus 23,140]

27 minutes ago, howsAnnie said:

I honestly don't, and I think generalizing statements like yours are presumptuous and dangerous. Reality is created by language, so what kind of argument is it to accuse me of "using semantics"? What a sad life it must be when you think everyone with a different sexuality from your own is automatically against you.

You are using semantics and being pedantic you clearly KNOW I don’t mean every living straight person is against queer people it’s literally just common sense and nuance of language. I clearly also don’t mean people who are trans as well as they’re LGBTQ+. 
 

But that being said I am saying we absolutely should exercise caution against straight people, because given the choice between them or us they will always choose them. If it became illegal and we were rounded up (again) like back in WW2, modern straight people would not put their own bodies or safety on the line to protect us. Friends or not. And when they come for our trans siblings we should absolutely be on the trans people’s sides because they want them (and us as a whole) dead ultimately. They see us as a problem, even the most progressive countries have laws that do things such as restrictive action against gay men giving blood for example.

TLDR; it’s not ALL straight people, but it absolutely is always a straight person.

[Stylor 203]

3 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Which, ironically, is how you deflect legitimate criticism of Israel as a necessary extension of historical antisemitism, whereas I (read: someone who is morally consistent) can condemn religious extremism no matter the source. Take a look in the mirror, sister.

But I’m not against criticism of Israel. I myself believe the response to October 7 was brutal and disproportionate. They really ****ed up handling the war and as a result lost all the goodwill and sympathy they had gained.

 

My issue is with people singling Israel out and calling them uniquely evil, saying they control the US and the world, attacking Israelis abroad. It’s the sheer dehumanization and Nazi/Soviet-style antisemitism that a lot of people on the left have adopted which troubles me.

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,118]

4 minutes ago, Stylor said:

I’m not against criticism of Israel

Almost your entire post history has been claiming that many legitimate criticisms of Israel are necessarily antisemitic.

4 minutes ago, Stylor said:

My issue is with people singling Israel out and calling them uniquely evil, saying they control the US and the world, attacking Israelis abroad.

No one would take issue with this if it were truly how you engaged in these conversations. However, you consistently use whataboutisms and accusations of antisemitism to try to shutdown conversations surrounding Israeli war crimes and create false binaries, as if multiple atrocities can’t be wrong simultaneously. It seems as if your aim, generally, is to make legitimate conversations surrounding Israeli war crimes and international influence functionally impossible by keeping it in the quagmire of bad faith accusations and strawman arguments about the political affiliation of the critic instead of the substance of the criticism.

Edited July 26 by Ladle Ghoulash

[Bronco 25,129]

1 hour ago, Delulu Rogers said:

Agreed 100% but in this attack in which a thread was made, it was specifically due to religion and therefore it’s okay to focus on that aspect in the broader rise of homophobia. 

It is right to point out that religious extremism is an issue.

But you've repeatedly used dehumanising and blatantly bigoted language. 

1 hour ago, Delulu Rogers said:

We can discuss homophobia in Islam, Christianity, far-right groups, etc in general conversations but I don’t see a need to bring up the issues with every single other group if a specific indecent in time is linked to one group

We cannot debate homophobic attacks in isolation though.

Because this is not an isolated attack. It is not an isolated attack in Berlin. It is not an isolated attack in Germany. It is not an isolated attack in Europe. 

And treating it as such puts people at risk of continued violence because we fail to deal with the wider contributions that inspire repeated attacks against our community. 

As I said earlier in this thread. This is not the first vehicular attack like this in Germany, by my count its the 3rd in the last year and the 10th since COVID. 

This attack was made possible because the German state is not adequately responding to a recurrent method of violence despite there being numerous preventive measures available which are used to great success throughout Europe in response to a rise in this form of extremist violence. 

The suspect had a criminal record of violence. So again, this is demonstrating that the German state is failing to rehabilitate people in its justice system before releasing them and is equally failing to effectively monitor violent individuals to prevent reoffending. 

The failings already highlighted by the limited information available at this time already show that this attack is repeatable across Germany & a method of violence available to any violent or radicalised individual. 

Islamic extremism motivated this singular individual. Which is one incident out of many, all carried out by people of varying beliefs and backgrounds in Germany. But what enabled this attack to be a success was repeated failures by the German government.

[Coop 15,397]

An update: the terrorist has been in Berlin Pride shot and killed by police

 

https://apnews.com/article/germany-berlin-lgbtq-pride-parade-van-ramming-3ba5e3f1becffd0da5f47b29aa08da9d

[Erotica 34,929]

Horrible. Another fresh example out of many in the basket of how Islamic values is not compatible with the European and US values. All naive liberal people to the left needs to wake up.

[Bronco 25,129]

4 minutes ago, Erotica said:

Horrible. Another fresh example out of many in the basket of how Islamic values is not compatible with the European and US values. All naive liberal people to the left needs to wake up.

And which European & US values are these?

Are they the values of UK politicians actively trying to block Prides happening?

Or the values of UK politicians actively rolling back LGBT+ rights in public spaces?

Are they the values of Americans funding the kill the gays laws in Uganda? 

Are they the values of the current German Chancellor who opposed criminalising marital rape? Or who repeatedly links being gay to pedophillia? 

Like which values are you talking about? 

[onTheBrink 1,316]

9 minutes ago, Erotica said:

Horrible. Another fresh example out of many in the basket of how Islamic values is not compatible with the European and US values. All naive liberal people to the left needs to wake up.

.

Edited July 26 by onTheBrink

[Elohim 1,961]

56 minutes ago, Erotica said:

Horrible. Another fresh example out of many in the basket of how Islamic values is not compatible with the European and US values. All naive liberal people to the left needs to wake up.

Oopsie daisy, some one just spat them facts, hope no one’s feeling was hurt by all the truth you are stating here, a bit overwhelming  

[Oriane 22,778]

20 hours ago, gagzus said:

This is horrible. Just another reason why straight people are NOT our friends.

I had many straight friends who joined the walk, it could have been them who got hit by that car. And it was probably the case of some of the injured people too.

[Delulu Rogers 7,664]

3 hours ago, Bronco said:

It is right to point out that religious extremism is an issue.

But you've repeatedly used dehumanising and blatantly bigoted language. 

We cannot debate homophobic attacks in isolation though.

Because this is not an isolated attack. It is not an isolated attack in Berlin. It is not an isolated attack in Germany. It is not an isolated attack in Europe. 

And treating it as such puts people at risk of continued violence because we fail to deal with the wider contributions that inspire repeated attacks against our community. 

As I said earlier in this thread. This is not the first vehicular attack like this in Germany, by my count its the 3rd in the last year and the 10th since COVID. 

This attack was made possible because the German state is not adequately responding to a recurrent method of violence despite there being numerous preventive measures available which are used to great success throughout Europe in response to a rise in this form of extremist violence. 

The suspect had a criminal record of violence. So again, this is demonstrating that the German state is failing to rehabilitate people in its justice system before releasing them and is equally failing to effectively monitor violent individuals to prevent reoffending. 

The failings already highlighted by the limited information available at this time already show that this attack is repeatable across Germany & a method of violence available to any violent or radicalised individual. 

Islamic extremism motivated this singular individual. Which is one incident out of many, all carried out by people of varying beliefs and backgrounds in Germany. But what enabled this attack to be a success was repeated failures by the German government.

You’re discussing what enabled the attack to happen and how it’s an ongoing issue with the German state and I and others are discussing what motivated this attack to happen which is also an ongoing issue. 

I also mentioned in another post something similar to yours about how Europe needs to do better with preventing known criminals from committing more crimes. Part of that includes stricter immigration and vetting processes. 

[Bronco 25,129]

3 minutes ago, Delulu Rogers said:

I also mentioned in another post something similar to yours about how Europe needs to do better with preventing known criminals from committing more crimes. Part of that includes stricter immigration and vetting processes. 

Which, in relation to this specific attack - because you don't want to discuss the wider picture and just want to discuss this incident - is irrelevant. The attacker was a German citizen, not an immigrant. 
Stricter immigration & vetting wouldn't have changed a single thing here. 

[Delulu Rogers 7,664]

4 hours ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Saying the invocation of ethnicity is irrelevant when you were the one who brought up immigration form Arab nations by associating the rise of Islamic extremism to lax immigration policy is deeply unserious. The facts aren’t on your side, so you’re out here contorting yourself into knots to justify the xenophobic narrative you were propogating. You got mad at a strawman argument you constructed (“you’re not allowed to critique Islamic extremism”) to justify a xenophobic argument (“this is why we need stricter immigration laws to limit the influx of Islamic extremists”), only for that argument to disintegrate once any pressure was applied to it. I also never said you were racist, so save the pearl clutching. I said you were invoking a xenophobic narrative, which is true. Your response to the facts about the extremists being second generation further digs into xenophobic rhetoric by claiming that, no matter how many generations, some groups will never truly be assimilated, in spite of no rise in Islamic violence being tied to demographic shifts and the overwhelming majority of the Muslim and Arab population *not* carrying out acts of terrorism.

Are you okay? Where in any of my posts did I ever mention the work “Arab” or even a specific region of the world? And I know the majority of Muslims are not carrying out attacks. I never said otherwise. 

Regardless of if you think immigration is the reason for the increase in Islamic extremism in Europe or not does not negate the fact that there is indeed an increase. What do you suggest should be done to solve the issue? There will always be born and raised extremist but at least countries can control what they can by stricter vetting processes and better border control. 

The immigration crisis in Europe is unprecedented and it’s no wonder right wing parties are surging in the poll. Everything needs to be in moderation and that includes immigration. 

 

[onTheBrink 1,316]

21 minutes ago, Delulu Rogers said:

it’s no wonder right wing parties are surging in the poll

This is a dangerous statement to make. They're surging not because of whatever bad apples we might be letting in, but because the section of the population that wants to scapegoat all Muslims, motivated by racism, are being motivated to do so by propaganda that tars all Muslims with the same brush. Think it's really important to understand that difference. 

Edited July 26 by onTheBrink