💔🏳️‍🌈🇩🇪Berlin pride: several injured, one dead after vehicle drove into crowd

[Blackout19 15,802]

9 hours ago, Mars said:

Very sad news and I couldnt sleep this evening. I didnt attend pride due to work but many friends did and theyre all ok.

CSD in Berlin is always so powerful and unifying, now we will stand even more resiliant and even more unified 

 

7 hours ago, Oriane said:

Horrible, thankfully my friends and I left way before that, just saw the news when I got home...

 

6 hours ago, bpmMonkey said:

Just left the area 10 minutes before it all happened..

i am glad you are ok 

[Bronco 25,129]

22 minutes ago, gagzus said:

I’ve just realised that was the last concert I ever went to and I’ve never had much desire to go to one again. Not even Gaga’s really. Maybe it’s PTSD but it’s definitely changed my perspective.

As someone who went to concerts shortly after and still goes regularly it is converning how much security standards have dropped 

[Delulu Rogers 7,664]

2 hours ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Nobody said it was taboo, tho. Basically everyone in this thread denounced Islamic extremist violence in the same way they would violent extremists of any religion. That being said, tying Islamic extremist violence to immigration is wild, given that the majority of Muslim immigrants in the UK are non-violent and the ones that have engaged in acts of terror were usually lone wolves.

I wouldn’t say it’s wild. How did those people end up in those countries? There have been many instances where people have carried out attacks and it turns out they had deportation orders that never went into effect, had committed crimes in other countries but slipped through the cracks etc. 

There will always be lone wolves/born and raised extremist but statistics don’t lie. The amount of Islamic terrorism in Europe is in direct correlation to higher immigration rates. 

Edited July 26 by Delulu Rogers

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,118]

2 minutes ago, Delulu Rogers said:

those people

Do you hear yourself

 

Edited July 26 by Ladle Ghoulash

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,118]

Genuinely crazy to see unabashed right wing xenophobia on here lmao

[Bronco 25,129]

1 hour ago, Delulu Rogers said:

The reality is Islamic religious extremism is rising in Europe and it’s primarily through laxed immigration policies from the left that want to appear as saviours of the world

The attacker is a german born citizen. 

Of the recent car attacks in Germany, the majority were by German citizens and the majority weren't linked to islamic terrorism. 

In 2022, 69 germans were arrested for plotting a far-right coup detat. With 27 facing terror charges. Multiple AfD politicians were linked to it, multiple members of the military and police and state were also arrested. 

So this is why we don't exclusively focus on the religious aspect. Because its not just islam. Its all religious extremists. Its happening daily (as said early last year by July over 50 reported cases of homophobic violence at German pride celebrations were reported including cases of parades having boiling water thrown at them as they passed). 

If you choose to pick specific incidents & then laser focus on specific minority factors. The result is that you aren't actually fighting homophobic violence. You are just using homophobia as a shield to push a specific political narrative that doesn't lessen homophobia but heightens other bigotries and enables the homophobes that are given a free pass as a result.

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,118]

29 minutes ago, Delulu Rogers said:

I wouldn’t say it’s wild. How did those people end up in those countries? There have been many instances where people have carried out attacks and it turns out they had deportation orders that never went into effect, had committed crimes in other countries but skipped through the cracks etc. 

There will always be lone wolves/born and raised extremist but statistics don’t lie. The amount of Islamic terrorism in Europe is in direct correlation to higher immigration rates. 

But to your broader point: the argument that the rise in Islamic extremist violence is directly tied to immigration is just…not meaningfully borne out in any data. Most of the recent incidents have been committed by second generation European Muslims, not people who have just recently arrived, but folks that were actually raised in Europe. Looking at the UK specifically (given the all of the hubbub about the rise in Islamic terror there specifically): the data from the UK’s office of national statistics also doesn’t show a proportional rise in Islamic terrorist attacks relative to influxes of Muslim immigrants. 

What’s more, since 9/11, 72% of terror attacks in UK were committed by British nationals and that number has remained basically the same in recent years, further undercutting the idea that there has been a spike in Muslim immigrants committing acts of terroristic violence there.

When horrible things happen, I understand the urge to assign blame and look for easy answers, but the fact of the matter is the narrative you’re espousing is both factually inaccurate and an attempt to scapegoat an entire religious and ethnic minority group for the actions of a handful of lone wolves who were radicalized on the internet. The ideology those individuals espouse needs to be confronted, but to act as if everyone from Arab countries holds those views and would take those actions is just not accurate.

Edited July 26 by Ladle Ghoulash

[Stylor 203]

1 hour ago, Delulu Rogers said:

I don’t understand why it’s so taboo to talk about religion if the attack was religiously motivated. 

Too many people turn a blind eye when it comes to Islam cause they don’t want to appear islamaphoic or racist. 

The reality is Islamic religious extremism is rising in Europe and it’s primarily through laxed immigration policies from the left that want to appear as saviours of the world. 

This is a problem and it shouldn’t be controversial to point that out. 
 

Because they view Islam through an oppressor/oppressed lens, where Islam is some oppressed minority religion, when it’s quite literally the opposite.
 

1. It’s not a minority religion, there’s 2 billion Muslims, and they’re on the verge of becoming the world’s largest religion.

2. They are not ‘oppressed.’ They oppress. Muslim-majority countries have the worst human rights records regarding minorities, especially against LGBT people.

Basically, a lot of people in progressive and even liberal circles view anything non-Western as oppressed and incapable of evil.

The pro-Palestinian movement post October 7 has accentuated that even further, where we see far-leftists and even queer people openly supporting Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Iranian regime, all of which would kill them without a second thought. Even worse is that this is materializing into actual political alliances, like the Greens in the UK or LFI in France, where leftists and queer people are aligning with ultra-conservative Muslim extremists. Here in the US, the DSA is trying to follow that same path.

 

[Delulu Rogers 7,664]

54 minutes ago, Bronco said:

The attacker is a german born citizen. 

Of the recent car attacks in Germany, the majority were by German citizens and the majority weren't linked to islamic terrorism. 

In 2022, 69 germans were arrested for plotting a far-right coup detat. With 27 facing terror charges. Multiple AfD politicians were linked to it, multiple members of the military and police and state were also arrested. 

So this is why we don't exclusively focus on the religious aspect. Because its not just islam. Its all religious extremists. Its happening daily (as said early last year by July over 50 reported cases of homophobic violence at German pride celebrations were reported including cases of parades having boiling water thrown at them as they passed). 

If you choose to pick specific incidents & then laser focus on specific minority factors. The result is that you aren't actually fighting homophobic violence. You are just using homophobia as a shield to push a specific political narrative that doesn't lessen homophobia but heightens other bigotries and enables the homophobes that are given a free pass as a result.

Agreed 100% but in this attack in which a thread was made, it was specifically due to religion and therefore it’s okay to focus on that aspect in the broader rise of homophobia. 

We can discuss homophobia in Islam, Christianity, far-right groups, etc in general conversations but I don’t see a need to bring up the issues with every single other group if a specific indecent in time is linked to one group. 

[howsAnnie 573]

1 hour ago, gagzus said:

You’re being pedantic and using semantics and know exactly what I meant. 

As I said, straight people are not our friends.

I honestly don't, and I think generalizing statements like yours are presumptuous and dangerous. Reality is created by language, so what kind of argument is it to accuse me of "using semantics"? What a sad life it must be when you think everyone with a different sexuality from your own is automatically against you.

[Lukasson 508]

20 minutes ago, Stylor said:

Because they view Islam through an oppressor/oppressed lens, where Islam is some oppressed minority religion, when it’s quite literally the opposite.
 

1. It’s not a minority religion, there’s 2 billion Muslims, and they’re on the verge of becoming the world’s largest religion.

2. They are not ‘oppressed.’ They oppress. Muslim-majority countries have the worst human rights records regarding minorities, especially against LGBT people.

Basically, a lot of people in progressive and even liberal circles view anything non-Western as oppressed and incapable of evil.

The pro-Palestinian movement post October 7 has accentuated that even further, where we see far-leftists and even queer people openly supporting Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Iranian regime, all of which would kill them without a second thought. Even worse is that this is materializing into actual political alliances, like the Greens in the UK or LFI in France, where leftists and queer people are aligning with ultra-conservative Muslim extremists. Here in the US, the DSA is trying to follow that same path.

 

The community in Berlin is in shock and grieving and all you do is spit poison and weaponizing this tragedy for the agenda you‘re pushing in several threads.

With all due respect: go and keep s…ing Netanjahu‘s d..k.

 

[Delulu Rogers 7,664]

56 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

When horrible things happen, I understand the urge to assign blame and look for easy answers, but the fact of the matter is the narrative you’re espousing is both factually inaccurate and an attempt to scapegoat an entire religious and ethnic minority group for the actions of a handful of lone wolves who were radicalized on the internet. The ideology those individuals espouse needs to be confronted, but to act as if everyone from Arab countries holds those views and would take those actions is just not accurate.

There’s a lot of assumptions and projecting going on here. Scapegoating an entire community? Nothing in my post mentioned anything along the lines of “all Muslims” nor did I even mention anything about ethnic background or Arab countries. 

Muslim isn’t an ethnicity, it’s a religion that anyone can belong to. Why you’re bringing up race, Arab countries and this idea that I’m scapegoating an entire ethnic group I’m not sure, but it proves my initial post that any critique of Islam is met with “your racist” or “your scapegoating” etc. 

To your point of most recent incidents being committed by second generation Muslims, well, that’s still an issue that needs to be talked about and addressed and if anything, that’s even worse because you would think they would be more open minded and accepting given the fact they were born and raised in a liberal society. And if they are the product of immigrant parents, cultural differences etc then it’s still all tied back to immigration. 

And for another time, I’m not saying other people aren’t committing acts of terror. But again to my point, we should be able to have an open conversation about this aspect in the broader issue of the rise of homophobia without having to drown it out by pointing the finger at other groups for the sake of tiptoeing around religion. 

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,118]

19 minutes ago, Delulu Rogers said:

There’s a lot of assumptions and projecting going on here. Scapegoating an entire community? Nothing in my post mentioned anything along the lines of “all Muslims” nor did I even mention anything about ethnic background or Arab countries. 

Muslim isn’t an ethnicity, it’s a religion that anyone can belong to. Why you’re bringing up race, Arab countries and this idea that I’m scapegoating an entire ethnic group I’m not sure, but it proves my initial post that any critique of Islam is met with “your racist” or “your scapegoating” etc. 

To your point of most recent incidents being committed by second generation Muslims, well, that’s still an issue that needs to be talked about and addressed and if anything, that’s even worse because you would think they would be more open minded and accepting given the fact they were born and raised in a liberal society. And if they are the product of immigrant parents, cultural differences etc then it’s still all tied back to immigration. 

And for another time, I’m not saying other people aren’t committing acts of terror. But again to my point, we should be able to have an open conversation about this aspect in the broader issue of the rise of homophobia without having to drown it out by pointing the finger at other groups for the sake of tiptoeing around religion. 

Saying the invocation of ethnicity is irrelevant when you were the one who brought up immigration form Arab nations by associating the rise of Islamic extremism to lax immigration policy is deeply unserious. The facts aren’t on your side, so you’re out here contorting yourself into knots to justify the xenophobic narrative you were propogating. You got mad at a strawman argument you constructed (“you’re not allowed to critique Islamic extremism”) to justify a xenophobic argument (“this is why we need stricter immigration laws to limit the influx of Islamic extremists”), only for that argument to disintegrate once any pressure was applied to it. I also never said you were racist, so save the pearl clutching. I said you were invoking a xenophobic narrative, which is true. Your response to the facts about the extremists being second generation further digs into xenophobic rhetoric by claiming that, no matter how many generations, some groups will never truly be assimilated, in spite of no rise in Islamic violence being tied to demographic shifts and the overwhelming majority of the Muslim and Arab population *not* carrying out acts of terrorism.

Edited July 26 by Ladle Ghoulash

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,118]

28 minutes ago, Delulu Rogers said:

We can discuss homophobia in Islam, Christianity, far-right groups, etc in general conversation

 

48 minutes ago, Stylor said:

Because they view Islam through an oppressor/oppressed lens, where Islam is some oppressed minority religion, when it’s quite literally the opposite.
 

1. It’s not a minority religion, there’s 2 billion Muslims, and they’re on the verge of becoming the world’s largest religion.

2. They are not ‘oppressed.’ They oppress. Muslim-majority countries have the worst human rights records regarding minorities, especially against LGBT people.

Basically, a lot of people in progressive and even liberal circles view anything non-Western as oppressed and incapable of evil.

The pro-Palestinian movement post October 7 has accentuated that even further, where we see far-leftists and even queer people openly supporting Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Iranian regime, all of which would kill them without a second thought. Even worse is that this is materializing into actual political alliances, like the Greens in the UK or LFI in France, where leftists and queer people are aligning with ultra-conservative Muslim extremists. Here in the US, the DSA is trying to follow that same path.

 

Jesus Christ, do you ever get tired of making endless strawman arguments?

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,118]

51 minutes ago, Stylor said:

they view Islam through an oppressor/oppressed lens

Which, ironically, is how you deflect legitimate criticism of Israel as a necessary extension of historical antisemitism, whereas I (read: someone who is morally consistent) can condemn religious extremism no matter the source. Take a look in the mirror, sister.

Edited July 26 by Ladle Ghoulash