The death of physical media is upon us!

[gagzus 23,139]

 

[nATAH 57,032]

I wonder if the ps6 will be digital only too... i'm so scared for the day my ps4 breaks

I have a lot of games I love on disc and I use it for bluray movies too

maybe i'll switch to Xbox if they always keep an option open for physical media

[gagzus 23,139]

For those who may not know or understand; over the last 5 or so years T&Cs of digital downloads have changed where basically games you download are now considered "licences" and not outright ownership. Without physical media you now only rent or stream games. Individual people must download the games rather than sharing, trading or reselling. Essentially killing the second-hand market.

Companies also reserve the right to revoke access or outright "end" games whenever they chose, even forcing you to have to pay-to-play beyond certain points or for certain features (which GTA 6 is already having). There's been a big campaign over here in Europe to stop games companies being able to do this and it was rejected in the European courts outright. Meaning now companies now have the ability to dictate when you can and cannot play your game even if you've paid top dollar for it.

We're now in the age of "if buying isn't owning, then piracy isn't stealing".

[gagzus 23,139]

Just now, nATAH said:

I wonder if the ps6 will be digital only too... i'm so scared for the day my ps4 breaks

that's exactly what it means it seems

[nATAH 57,032]

Just now, gagzus said:

that's exactly what it means it seems

I would be semi-suprised if ps6 is no disc since ps5 games have physical copies but I wouldn't be shocked if ps7 is the one to finally phase it out fully

[gagzus 23,139]

17 minutes ago, nATAH said:

I would be semi-suprised if ps6 is no disc since ps5 games have physical copies but I wouldn't be shocked if ps7 is the one to finally phase it out fully

i wouldn't be surprised if they delayed the PS6 to be after the timeframe so they are just essentially selling you a hard drive to stream off of.

[Jill 31,812]

I obviously understand people who are against it. I'm not particularly for it, but I'm not against it either. You can't deny the fact this was a long-time coming since digital stores became a thing. Like countless formats before it, the disc was already prone to become obsolete some day. People who say "you'll own nothing and be happy", like they're living in some kind of utopia where you can actually own things when you physically have them (you still don't!) don't seem to understand that as technology advances, formats will keep changing. Even if Sony were to  decide otherwise, discs will become obsolete sooner or later, and having a disc collection will become a thing of the past, and something increasingly incompatible with modern systems. Same thing happened to the DVD movie market and rental discs with Netflix and others, and countless other formats and industries. The future is increasingly becoming digital. All aspects of life will inevitably become increasingly linked to the digital world.

Edited July 1 by Jill

[Jill 31,812]

27 minutes ago, nATAH said:

I would be semi-suprised if ps6 is no disc since ps5 games have physical copies but I wouldn't be shocked if ps7 is the one to finally phase it out fully

PS5 games will still be available on the PS Store, so no physical needed there. And both PS5 and Xbox already experimented with discless formats to great success, and others like Google with Stadia did so too albeit with less success but they still serve as precedent. PS6 will probably come out in 2027 with no disc drive, and discs will keep being manufactured for legacy versions until 2028.

[RAMROD 117,069]

32 minutes ago, nATAH said:

I wonder if the ps6 will be digital only too... i'm so scared for the day my ps4 breaks

This is definitely heavily implied to be that way. They stopped the physicals production in general, not just for PS5. On top of that, they also announced shop will be closed for PS3 & Vita along with this news. 

[Ziggy 14,047]

7 minutes ago, Jill said:

I obviously understand people who are against it. I'm not particularly for it, but I'm not against it either. You can't deny the fact this was a long-time coming since digital stores became a thing. Like countless formats before it, the disc was already prone to become obsolete some day. People who say "you'll own nothing and be happy", like they're living in some kind of utopia where you can actually own things when you physically have them (you still don't!) don't seem to understand that as technology advances, formats will keep changing. Even if Sony were to  decide otherwise, discs will become obsolete sooner or later, and having a disc collection will become a thing of the past, and something increasingly incompatible with modern systems. Same thing happened to the DVD movie market and rental discs with Netflix and others, and countless other formats and industries. The future is increasingly becoming digital. All aspects of life will inevitably become increasingly linked to the digital world.

Mildly disagree. I think this would be true if the models of distribution were equal in accessibility or improvements in service or democratization. The current streaming model is extortionate atp for the quality of their product and the service of the back catalogs they provide which is why the second hand physical market has had some renewed force in the last few years. They make poo, don’t keep libraries as they used to and want us to believe that streaming and digital is the future? When you build in scarcity and precariousness into your model you’re not exactly welcoming consumers into the future; you’re forcing it on them. That’s a recipe for failure regardless of how the system would otherwise facilitate this evolution 

[gagzus 23,139]

14 minutes ago, Jill said:

I obviously understand people who are against it. I'm not particularly for it, but I'm not against it either. You can't deny the fact this was a long-time coming since digital stores became a thing. Like countless formats before it, the disc was already prone to become obsolete some day. People who say "you'll own nothing and be happy", like they're living in some kind of utopia where you can actually own things when you physically have them (you still don't!) don't seem to understand that as technology advances, formats will keep changing. Even if Sony were to  decide otherwise, discs will become obsolete sooner or later, and having a disc collection will become a thing of the past, and something increasingly incompatible with modern systems. Same thing happened to the DVD movie market and rental discs with Netflix and others, and countless other formats and industries. The future is increasingly becoming digital. All aspects of life will inevitably become increasingly linked to the digital world.

The biggest problem though is that Sony for years has been trying to force live-service models into their games effectively forcing pay-to-play and microtransactions. GTA Online for GTA6 is already confirmed to be a subscription based service ON TOP of the PSN subscription, and some features of the game are locked behind the Ultimate Edition.

They're doing this to force people into live service models and to have 100% control over their games, Playstation in particular has been adamantly against second-hand markets for over a decade, Sony EU even campaigned to have some secondhand businesses like Cex shut down here in the UK because of their secondhand trading and them not making a profit.

When you buy a physical game yes you do own it because you can keep it, sell it, give it to friends and when online support goes away (like most games i still play now) you can still play them. They already have in their T&Cs now for digital purchases that they reserve the right to remove content as they see fit despite you purchasing it. 

They've already started doing it to over 400 movies on the store, me and my friends have movies we bought outright years ago that now say "Content Unavailable" despite paying up to £20 for them. 

People wouldn't be so against this if Sony hadn't made it clear you don't get to 100% keep a game or movie and it can be removed, stopped or paywalled at anytime they choose.

Edited July 1 by gagzus

[Jill 31,812]

4 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

Mildly disagree. I think this would be true if the models of distribution were equal in accessibility or improvements in service or democratization. The current streaming model is extortionate atp for the quality of their product and the service of the back catalogs they provide which is why the second hand physical market has had some renewed force in the last few years. They make poo, don’t keep libraries as they used to and want us to believe that streaming and digital is the future? When you build in scarcity and precariousness into your model you’re not exactly welcoming consumers into the future; you’re forcing it on them. That’s a recipe for failure regardless of how the system would otherwise facilitate this evolution 

Yes but my point still stands. I see this as a problem related to market dynamics and not technology itself. Market dynamics and things like copyright also made lesser known movies, for example, harder to watch legally after the advent of streaming. But the transition needed to happen because DVD as a format was getting obsolete: movies (and games) are bigger than ever, need more storage than ever, more specs than ever, and instead of wasting money producing yet another physical format, it makes more sense to make use of the enormous digital capacity we've built over the years.

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,081]

19 minutes ago, Jill said:

People who say "you'll own nothing and be happy", like they're living in some kind of utopia

What about this critique implies a utopia? Yes, repossession can still happen in the context of larger scale debt, but the idea that everything you own should essentially turn into a rental is patently absurd and is genuinely dystopian. It’s a trend that also transcends what is essentially conditional access to video games you already own (see: attempts to turn air conditioning in a vehicle you already own into a subscription service).

I’m not patently against the end of physical media, but the system they’re positioning to transition to is blatantly bad for the consumer. The very least they could do is give the gamer unrestricted access to the file for the game itself that can be stored on a hard drive that connects to the console so they can maintain ownership of it that isn’t subject to the discretion of the distributors and manufacturers of the game.

[Jill 31,812]

4 minutes ago, gagzus said:

The biggest problem though is that Sony for years has been trying to force live-service models into their games effectively forcing pay-to-play and microtransactions. GTA Online for GTA6 is already confirmed to be a subscription based service ON TOP of the PSN subscription, and some features of the game are locked behind the Ultimate Edition.

They're doing this to force people into live service models and to have 100% control over their games, Playstation in particular has been adamantly against second-hand markets for over a decade, when you buy a physical game yes you do own it because you can keep it, sell it, give it to friends and when online support goes away (like most games i still play now) you can still play them. They already have in their T&Cs now for digital purchases that they reserve the right to remove content as they see fit despite you purchasing it. 

They've already started doing it to over 400 movies on the store, me and my friends have movies we bought outright years ago that now say "Content Unavailable" despite paying up to £20 for them. 

People wouldn't be so against this if Sony hadn't made it clear you don't get to 100% keep a game or movie and it can be removed, stopped or paywalled at anytime they choose.

I understand this, and it's clear Sony doesn't have our best interests at heart. An example of this is the initial marketing campaign for the PS4, which emphasized that users could still own and borrow physical games. In retrospect we now know that Xbox and Stadia were simply years ahead of the curve in this regard (a reason they both failed imo)

However the issue you mentioned regarding movies and games is already happening with physical formats anyway. Whether it's through streaming (due to expiring copyrights or other factors) or physical media (due to obsolescence and a lack of modern playback equipment), media is always prone to disappearing. The reality is that we can never truly own something forever,especially not when there are so many competing interests at play, such as licensing negotiations, copyright laws, server maintenance costs, taxes, etc. Even certain movies that were once widely available on DVD have since gone out of print.

As for live-service games, I see where you're coming from. Their rise is a direct consequence of market dynamics, and it places a strain on the consumer. This goes hand in hand with the broader affordability crisis. leisure is increasingly becoming financially unsustainable.

[Ziggy 14,047]

12 minutes ago, Jill said:

Yes but my point still stands. I see this as a problem related to market dynamics and not technology itself. Market dynamics and things like copyright also made lesser known movies, for example, harder to watch legally after the advent of streaming. But the transition needed to happen because DVD as a format was getting obsolete: movies (and games) are bigger than ever, need more storage than ever, more specs than ever, and instead of wasting money producing yet another physical format, it makes more sense to make use of the enormous digital capacity we've built over the years.

Yeah! But if market dynamic brought about the advancement, then it’s a factor to consider. Corporate greed has always been a hindrance to the development of the capital market. That supposed free and fair competition they preach about is fictitious in today’s market and it’s absolutely affected the adoption of digital mediums as we see more and more people saying, “eh I can’t afford streaming, I’ll pirate, I’ll buy a secondhand dvd, etc.” I agree digital is otherwise the future but I don’t think it’s as inevitable in a lofty, social advancement way like it’s preached but in a sort of nihilistic sigh owing to corporate greed which imo does really impact its role in our society. Already, for instance, younger people prefer twitch and YouTube to movies and tv, which is a great example of streaming and digital maybe being the next step but clearly also in active response to corporate austerity. So I agree in one sense with you that it’s the future but not for this industry. I think their abuse of the consumer is going to kill them, basically.

Edited July 1 by Ziggy