Gaga’s Top 3 Weirdest Songs?

[Ladle Ghoulash 45,542]

Again, I don’t even really *dislike* ARTPOP, I just think it’s fairly overrated in the fan base and hasn’t aged exceptionally well. I saw her live 3x during the era, I think the era itself is largely great, but as a standalone album, I don’t think it’s one of her strongest.

[Ladle Ghoulash 45,542]

30 minutes ago, imogen2133 said:

I can see why you would think that and it does make sense but I think that Gaga was aware of it back then and knew it was wrong (MTN video, some hints in interviews in 2010/11, Swine) and when Gaga addressed it back then in her way she always said "I'm not sure if I want to reveal that or make it explicit in my music because I have lots of young fans I feel responsible for and because it will most likely overshadow other things and be the thing people talk about when they talk/think about me". So it seemed she was aware back then that it was wrong and it is most likely why she broke up with him when she did. But she also said a few times when it first happened she tried to rationalize it or find a way to excuse it or blame herself so you could be right. I guess we may never know I just find it odd that he's the producer on it. I mean Gaga and him produced some other songs around that time with darker subjects but that one is the darkest easily.

Gaga, when she performed Swine to the first time, said, “it’s really scary when you’re young and you don’t know what it means to be grown up yet [and] you start hanging out with adults and you think, ‘Oh, this must be what adults do.’ But it wasn’t what adults do. It wasn’t normal. But because I let it be normal, before I knew it, I was just a shell of a person…I felt like trash on the inside. I felt empty.”
 

That leads to me believe she normalized the abusive dynamic with her rapist/Fusari, which is why I think it’s still plausible that that’s what the song is about even with Fusari as the producer (assuming he was her abuser). Even if she realized it was abusive in 2009-2010 (which I’d say she clearly did, given that I think Monster alludes to a similar dynamic and the MTN video very likely depicts her after a post-rape abortion), that wouldn’t change how she felt when she wrote Trigger because she wrote that in 06-07 when she was actively involved with Fusari.

42:40

 

Edited April 8 by Ladle Ghoulash

[gagacabana 5,396]

8 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

I saw her live 3x during the era

What shows did you went to?? 

[Ladle Ghoulash 45,542]

2 minutes ago, gagacabana said:

What shows did you went to?? 

I went to the album release party in Brooklyn, I saw her at Roseland, and I saw the tour in Boston 

[imogen2133 332]

10 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Yeah, not a huge fan of the failed LG/BR reheat (GUY) or some of the sloppiest verses she’s written in her career (Donatella). Cute bops in their own right, fairly forgettable in her broader catalogue. I already highlighted the songs where I think she was trying to be edgy/cheekily subversive in my original post. 

I don't see the similarities between Lovegame/Bad Romance and G.U.Y sonically or lyrically  i've never thought of that before really so idk about that. As for Donatella I admit it's not her best but it's still a great campy song making fun of the media(especially the bridge). Again I don't know what you mean by edgy or cheesy(those words get overused and are meant in different ways most of the time).

[gagacabana 5,396]

5 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

I saw her at Roseland

What a present that was! One of my fav performances of hers 

[imogen2133 332]

18 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Meaning the bulk of the first half of the album is much better than the second half (Aura, Venus, Sexxx Dreams, MANiCURE, DWUW, ARTPOP, and Swine being the songs on the album I think have withstood the test of time).

What about 3 of the best songs of her career Dope, Applause and Gypsy?

[Ladle Ghoulash 45,542]

21 minutes ago, imogen2133 said:

I don't see the similarities between Lovegame/Bad Romance and G.U.Y sonically or lyrically  i've never thought of that before really so idk about that. As for Donatella I admit it's not her best but it's still a great campy song making fun of the media(especially the bridge). Again I don't know what you mean by edgy or cheesy(those words get overused and are meant in different ways most of the time).

IMO, both GUY and LG have pretty clear structural similarities, both feel also like electro pop Britney Spears pastiches to me. What I mean about edgy/cheesy is that it reads to me like Gaga saw songs like MJH/Donatella/GUY as being legitimately rebellious  when they read a bit like fluff to me and I think make fairly flaccid social commentary.
 

Like the use of power bottoming as a metaphor for weaponizing her sexuality to survive as a woman in the music industry (GUY) is all well and good, but feels fairly been there done than in ways that I think were less on the nose (PF + LG). Same with Donatella: the idea of lampooning the way that the media trivializes strong women and how to remain empowered in light of that is also well and good, but doesn’t feel like new ground relative to the ethos of TF and doesn’t really improve upon the previous iterations of those themes. I think that she felt by expressing the subtext of her previous work in a more direct way, she was confronting the public’s perception of her in a rebellious way, but those efforts feel, to me, instead like she just kind of watered down, overexposed, and somewhat caricatured things she had already done. 
 

Long story short; Generally speaking, I think ARTPOP serves a real purpose in her career arc, but I think a lot of what ended up happening in that era was her more or less purposefully taking her image and sound to somewhat caricature-esque extremes to the end of basically deconstructing that version of her persona to start over. I have complicated feelings about the album and the era because I think that the era was effective, but the album hasn’t really withstood the test of time. IMO, ARTPOP’s branding will always be something of an albatross around it’s neck because it positions the album as sonically groundbreaking and culturally innovate when, more than anything, it’s Gaga sticking the pole of her freak flag in the ground and saying “I’m not going anywhere” (which is valid, but makes the album feel too heavily attached to the context within which it was created and presented as opposed to something that transcends that as a genuine classic). I get that you may not agree with that and I honestly just think that boils down to us interpreting the album differently and having different taste.

Edited April 8 by Ladle Ghoulash

[Ladle Ghoulash 45,542]

15 minutes ago, imogen2133 said:

What about 3 of the best songs of her career Dope, Applause and Gypsy?

Not even top 30-50 in book, tbh. Gypsy is the best song of the three you mentioned (infectious chorus, great vocals, arguably overproduced), Applause is a bottom tier single from her in my book (needlessly dense lyricism that cosplays as high brow but is more or less just a braggadocio “**** the haters” style track in art school drag) and Dope is good, but doesn’t really stand out when compared to many of her other ballads.

Edited April 8 by Ladle Ghoulash

[apollorowling 820]

2 hours ago, imogen2133 said:

Probably her weirdest and darkest song to date. Especially since we don't know the context/meaning behind the lyrics. It gave me this this weird heavy feeling the first time I heard it so I don't really listen to it ever.

Yeah, the lyrics, the sounds and the end of the song. It's like a depressive song.

[apollorowling 820]

2 hours ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

I definitely get the sense it’s about her early career sexual trauma. 

Exactly, I think the same.

[LUST FOR GAGA 94]

killah, aura, swine

[imogen2133 332]

1 hour ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Gaga, when she performed Swine to the first time, said, “it’s really scary when you’re young and you don’t know what it means to be grown up yet [and] you start hanging out with adults and you think, ‘Oh, this must be what adults do.’ But it wasn’t what adults do. It wasn’t normal. But because I let it be normal, before I knew it, I was just a shell of a person…I felt like trash on the inside. I felt empty.”
 

That leads to me believe she normalized the abusive dynamic with her rapist/Fusari, which is why I think it’s still plausible that that’s what the song is about even with Fusari as the producer (assuming he was her abuser). Even if she realized it was abusive in 2009-2010 (which I’d say she clearly did, given that I think Monster alludes to a similar dynamic and the MTN video very likely depicts her after a post-rape abortion), that wouldn’t change how she felt when she wrote Trigger because she wrote that in 06-07 when she was actively involved with Fusari.

42:40

 

That makes a lot of sense and yes I've seen that performance(and the whole thing) many times. When it first came out(and ARTPOP) Swine was always one of my favorites but I never really understood the meaning until later. I think it is plausible that she didn't really process it at first and only did a while later maybe around 2010/11(or when she broke up with Fusari hence why I mentioned it). Also I have never read Monster that way. It reads to me more so as one of Gaga's many "I fell in love with someone who is toxic/bad for me but I can't help it" songs and I know fans have a tendency to reframe her older songs through the lense (and I can see why) but I like to go off strong clues or songs if she has explicitly said they are related to that (Swine, Replay, Trigger) and Monster has never felt like that too me. At the end of the day we can't know for sure if it was him or all the details but some things can definitely be pieced together for sure.

[imogen2133 332]

1 hour ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

I went to the album release party in Brooklyn, I saw her at Roseland, and I saw the tour in Boston 

Oh my god the jealousy I feel right now especially for Roseland which is one of my fav shows of hers. But I did get to see her at ARTrave at least when she came here to Aus (and then didn't for another 11 years).

[imogen2133 332]

1 hour ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

IMO, both GUY and LG have pretty clear structural similarities, both feel also like electro pop Britney Spears pastiches to me. What I mean about edgy/cheesy is that it reads to me like Gaga saw songs like MJH/Donatella/GUY as being legitimately rebellious  when they read a bit like fluff to me and I think make fairly flaccid social commentary.
 

Like the use of power bottoming as a metaphor for weaponizing her sexuality to survive as a woman in the music industry (GUY) is all well and good, but feels fairly been there done than in ways that I think were less on the nose (PF + LG). Same with Donatella: the idea of lampooning the way that the media trivializes strong women and how to remain empowered in light of that is also well and good, but doesn’t feel like new ground relative to the ethos of TF and doesn’t really improve upon the previous iterations of those themes. I think that she felt by expressing the subtext of her previous work in a more direct way, she was confronting the public’s perception of her in a rebellious way, but those efforts feel, to me, instead like she just kind of watered down, overexposed, and somewhat caricatured things she had already done. 
 

Long story short; Generally speaking, I think ARTPOP serves a real purpose in her career arc, but I think a lot of what ended up happening in that era was her more or less purposefully taking her image and sound to somewhat caricature-esque extremes to the end of basically deconstructing that version of her persona to start over. I have complicated feelings about the album and the era because I think that the era was effective, but the album hasn’t really withstood the test of time. IMO, ARTPOP’s branding will always be something of an albatross around it’s neck because it positions the album as sonically groundbreaking and culturally innovate when, more than anything, it’s Gaga sticking the pole of her freak flag in the ground and saying “I’m not going anywhere” (which is valid, but makes the album feel too heavily attached to the context within which it was created and presented as opposed to something that transcends that as a genuine classic). I get that you may not agree with that and I honestly just think that boils down to us interpreting the album differently and having different taste.

Well I guess we just see these things differently because I don't see the similarities between LG/BR and G.U.Y or even to Britney Spears I think they have very different styles overall (except for some more surface level similarities between Blackout and TFM). As for the metaphors and commentary, I don't think G.U.Y was intended as a song about Gaga reclaiming her power as a woman in the music industry like she does in relationships or is about that. It's just about her idea of feminism and how she is in her relationships. When she discussed the song in interviews she never talked about it being connected to her experiences in the industry or any external societal forces. I would say Donatella explored it's themes in a new way as well and it brought on the idea of being a "Donatella" like figure, someone who ignores criticism and is strong regardless, and it being done with campy lyrics is something she hadn't done before either. Also I don't think that MJH was ever supposed to be social commentary it is just about Gaga's alter ego for when she smoked weed in Amsterdam and got high off her ass so I wouldn't read it that way and Gaga never said it should be read that way in interviews (from what I remember). As for the album being "dated" or not withstanding the test of time due to the era/music being heavily rooted in her experiences around that time and the struggles she had(especially with the industry) I don't see that, songs that are specifically about that (ARTPOP, Swine, Donatella, Aura, Applause) are general enough that they avoid that and can easily be read as Gaga explaining/exploring her philosophy about life, art and herself. It might feel dated because she has changed quite a lot since that time but I wouldn't say it is overall. As for it being like a caricature of her up to that point I don't see that either, I look at ARTPOP as a completed or upgraded version of TF and some of it's themes done in a more mature way (even though it can be quite immature in the lyrics at times which Gaga intended).