Ladle Ghoulash 45,023 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, PartySick said: It becomes just music I like and is no longer "the beautiful soul that created the music" Eh, he spent his entire career giving and doing for others. Buying houses for families, using his global network to find organs for sick kids, gave over half his wealth to charity in his lifetime, entire world tour profits went to charity, and he still managed to live a life of luxury. That's how you do it Eh, still worth $700M adjusted for inflation (which would be both soulless and well out of touch by your standard). Gaga also raised $127M for frontline workers during COVID and has donated and contributed tens of millions to disaster relief and LGBTQ+ causes, not to mention the work she’s done to normalize and center LGBTQ+ people in pop culture. I get that extravagant wealth gives you the ick, but I just kind of feel like you’re tilting the scale in favor of MJ because you have a stronger attachment to him (which I get, but still). Edited January 8 by Ladle Ghoulash We have forgotten our public MANNERS Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladle Ghoulash 45,023 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 10 minutes ago, Bronco said: There's more to being a fan than just listening to the music in this era though - its the merch, the physical copies, the tour tickets etc. Like I'm with you, I'm a grown adult I don't stan for anyone. Not even the ones I did as a teen. But like when it comes to bands and singers I like, their wealth and their actions impact what limits I set myself as a fan. I'd never buy bootleg merch of any of the indie bands I follow, I always preorder their upcoming physicals, go to as many shows as possible (which tbf is for me as well lol), support their side projects etc. Things that actively help them. But with big acts? I will buy bootlegs because its significantly cheaper and often better quality, I'll skip preorders, I'll skip tours (there's some older acts I'll only see if they do hits tours/album anniversary tours) etc. And the logic is purely - I'd rather invest and support the ones who need it to continue vs the ones where i'm an insignificant drop in the very big pond. That’s totally fair, but the argument I was making was more about the implied emotional investment that Party said basically dries up past a certain wealth threshold, not about financial investment. We have forgotten our public MANNERS Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartySick 171,217 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 26 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said: Eh, still worth $700M adjusted for inflation (which would be both soulless and well out of touch by your standard). Also no credible evidence suggesting he gave “half his wealth in charity,” though he was undoubtedly very generous (most estimates I found range from approx $100M- $200M adjusted for inflation). Gaga also raised $127M for frontline workers during COVID and has donated and contributed tens of millions to disaster relief and LGBTQ+ causes, not to mention the work she’s done to normalize and center LGBTQ+ people in pop culture. I get that extravagant wealth gives you the ick, but I just kind of feel like you’re tilting the scale in favor of MJ because you have a stronger attachment to him (which I get, but still). Bruh there's a whole Wiki page about his charity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philanthropy_of_Michael_Jackson Not only do estimates reach half a billion dollars, it doesn't include quiet donations, benefit concerts, charity auction donations, or the myriad of personal gifts and acts he gave to hundreds of families Buddy was literally in the Guinness book of world records for being "the most charitable public figure" Whimsical bitch Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartySick 171,217 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 40 minutes ago, Bronco said: There's more to being a fan than just listening to the music in this era though - its the merch, the physical copies, the tour tickets etc. Like I'm with you, I'm a grown adult I don't stan for anyone. Not even the ones I did as a teen. But like when it comes to bands and singers I like, their wealth and their actions impact what limits I set myself as a fan. I'd never buy bootleg merch of any of the indie bands I follow, I always preorder their upcoming physicals, go to as many shows as possible (which tbf is for me as well lol), support their side projects etc. Things that actively help them. But with big acts? I will buy bootlegs because its significantly cheaper and often better quality, I'll skip preorders, I'll skip tours (there's some older acts I'll only see if they do hits tours/album anniversary tours) etc. And the logic is purely - I'd rather invest and support the ones who need it to continue vs the ones where i'm an insignificant drop in the very big pond. 29 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said: That’s totally fair, but the argument I was making was more about the implied emotional investment that Party said basically dries up past a certain wealth threshold, not about financial investment. It is also about that lil parasocial thing though I'm a mod on her freaking fansite, I've spent a decade of my life helping to run this place. I'm moving across the country because of friends I made through her. She's undoubtedly made an enormous impact on my life and I'm grateful. But it's lowkey that fact that makes the disgusting wealth less of an "ew" and feel almost like a betrayal. She's not the same woman that acted as a catalyst for those changes in my life anymore and it's disappointing on top of the fact that I already despise the ultra wealthy. She gets a little extra "ew " for that. But, I mean, it's not that serious how I feel about her personally is largely irrelevant to both of our lives. I'll go on living, occasionally bopping to the tracks (especially if Mayhem is a sign of things to come), and she'll go on isolating herself in her Malibu mansion making more money than she'll ever be able to spend while millions starve. It is what it is Whimsical bitch Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladle Ghoulash 45,023 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 6 minutes ago, PartySick said: Bruh there's a whole Wiki page about his charity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philanthropy_of_Michael_Jackson Not only do estimates reach half a billion dollars, it doesn't include quiet donations, benefit concerts, charity auction donations, or the myriad of personal gifts and acts he gave to hundreds of families Buddy was literally in the Guinness book of world records for being "the most charitable public figure" This is why you don’t ask ChatGPT for anything 🪦. I don’t usually and then the one time I do I show my whole ass lmao I stand by everything else, but sheesh We have forgotten our public MANNERS 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartySick 171,217 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Just now, Ladle Ghoulash said: This is why you don’t ask ChatGPT for anything 🪦. I don’t usually and then the one time I do I show my whole ass lmao I stand by everything else, but sheesh It helps that he's been dead for 17 years, I guess He was a huge safe space for me as a kid in a rough home and I've been able to basically deify him since 2009. He can't make mistakes anymore 'cause he's not around anymore If he were still alive, I probably wouldn't be so obsessed and such a staunch apologist about everything Gaga has no such "protection" and I hope she lives a long, happy life despite my disappointment Whimsical bitch 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
highwayunic0rn 304 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) 5 minutes ago, PartySick said: It helps that he's been dead for 17 years, I guess He was a huge safe space for me as a kid in a rough home and I've been able to basically deify him since 2009. He can't make mistakes anymore 'cause he's not around anymore If he were still alive, I probably wouldn't be so obsessed and such a staunch apologist about everything Gaga has no such "protection" and I hope she lives a long, happy life despite my disappointment I’m sorry but why are we using Michael Jackson as an example of a good human being or someone to be looked up to just because he donated to charities? He was a child molester and I’m so tired of people on here doing revisionist history of his legacy. The fact that you even say you’re such “staunch apologist” for him despite the hideous things he does really is just vile and 12 people had come forward about his abuse. You don’t pay millions of dollars when you are innocent, it’s pretty obvious what he did. Edited January 8 by highwayunic0rn 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartySick 171,217 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 6 minutes ago, highwayunic0rn said: I’m sorry but why are we using Michael Jackson as an example of a good human being or someone to be looked up to just because he donated to charities? He was a child molester and I’m so tired of people on here doing revisionist history of his legacy. The fact that you even say you’re such “staunch apologist” for him despite the hideous things he does really is just vile and 12 people had come forward about his abuse. You don’t pay millions of dollars when you are innocent, it’s pretty obvious what he did. He was innocent, babes I won't debate it again Whimsical bitch Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
highwayunic0rn 304 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Just now, PartySick said: He was innocent, babes I won't debate it again No he wasn’t there’s mountains of evidence, stop supporting abusers 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladle Ghoulash 45,023 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) 14 minutes ago, PartySick said: It helps that he's been dead for 17 years, I guess He was a huge safe space for me as a kid in a rough home and I've been able to basically deify him since 2009. He can't make mistakes anymore 'cause he's not around anymore If he were still alive, I probably wouldn't be so obsessed and such a staunch apologist about everything Gaga has no such "protection" and I hope she lives a long, happy life despite my disappointment I totally get that. I feel like with Gaga I sort of deified her as a teenager and then in my early 20s basically took ownership of what I learned from her and grew in my own direction, so I don’t necessarily feel super embedded with her personally atp. I love her work and think she’s an incredibly interesting person, but “Lady Gaga” is essentially a shared fantasy between me, her, and everyone else that enjoys it, so I guess that’s why, although I get where you’re coming from, the comments about feeling “distance” from her don’t fully register because I guess I wouldn’t say so much that I ever felt close to her as much as I identified with what I felt she represented and, imo, that idea remains true regardless of who she is outside of the persona. That’s not to say I don’t think she’s responsible for anything she does irl, it’s just more that she’d have to do something really heinous in order to ruin that fantasy lmao. She’s a person, I extend her a fair amount of grace, don’t excuse everything and try to mitigate my bias as much as possible, while also viewing my relationship to her work is being relatively distinct from who she may or may not be irl (because there’s basically no way for me to know that). Edited January 8 by Ladle Ghoulash We have forgotten our public MANNERS 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah H 4,303 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 5 minutes ago, highwayunic0rn said: No he wasn’t there’s mountains of evidence, stop supporting abusers Yeah, no amount of charity donations can hide that. Jimmy Savile did a lot for charity too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartySick 171,217 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 1 minute ago, highwayunic0rn said: No he wasn’t there’s mountains of evidence, stop supporting abusers 2 minutes ago, PartySick said: I won't debate it again Here's another wiki page for you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_comprehension#:~:text=Reading comprehension is the ability,comprehension is called functional illiteracy. I mean, even Gaga has allegations of misconduct against her that are just as credible as anything thrown at MJ she even has an accused rapist's face tattooed on her side ffs. Tell the powerful lady to stop before you pester me. Now shoo. Whimsical bitch Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartySick 171,217 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 26 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said: I totally get that. I feel like with Gaga I sort of deified her as a teenager and then in my early 20s basically took ownership of what I learned from her and grew in my own direction, so I don’t necessarily feel super embedded with her personally atp. I love her work and think she’s an incredibly interesting person, but “Lady Gaga” is essentially a shared fantasy between me, her, and everyone else that enjoys it, so I guess that’s why, although I get where you’re coming from, the comments about feeling “distance” from her don’t fully register because I guess I wouldn’t say so much that I ever felt close to her as much as I identified with what I felt she represented and, imo, that idea remains true regardless of who she is outside of the persona. That’s not to say I don’t think she’s responsible for anything she does irl, it’s just more that she’d have to do something really heinous in order to ruin that fantasy lmao. She’s a person, I extend her a fair amount of grace, don’t excuse everything and try to mitigate my bias as much as possible, while also viewing my relationship to her work is being relatively distinct from who she may or may not be irl (because there’s basically no way for me to know that). Ayy like I said, we all got different lines in the sand She was once nearly as important to me as MJ, she had much further to fall than the average rich-beyond-reason person. It's really that simple, I think. Whimsical bitch 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
highwayunic0rn 304 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 29 minutes ago, Sarah H said: Yeah, no amount of charity donations can hide that. Jimmy Savile did a lot for charity too. Exactly, it’s all a front to deflect from the trauma they inflicted on minors. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
highwayunic0rn 304 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) 31 minutes ago, PartySick said: Here's another wiki page for you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_comprehension#:~:text=Reading comprehension is the ability,comprehension is called functional illiteracy. I mean, even Gaga has allegations of misconduct against her that are just as credible as anything thrown at MJ she even has an accused rapist's face tattooed on her side ffs. Tell the powerful lady to stop before you pester me. Now shoo. Wow resorting to insulting someone’s intelligence to deflect from your fave being an abuser, it’s because of people like you that they get away with it! Absolute trash! Edited January 8 by highwayunic0rn Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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