BTW mv in retrospect

[pucihendzap 19]

4 hours ago, Skyana Rava said:

Why wouldn't Madonna feel happy to influence another generation AND be honored for it?

she felt threatened

[Ziggy 12,009]

5 hours ago, Skyana Rava said:

 

When I first saw the teeth gap at the end, I thought it was an homage to Madonna. Gaga recognizing and honoring her linneage 

A few weeks (days? hours? Or maybe she already had? idr) later Madonna herself picks up on the stan war and starts shitting on Gaga and I'm like what the hell? 

The Madonna hate for Gaga always blows my mind because Gaga is so explicit in her honoring of her inspirations and teachers.

Why wouldn't Madonna feel happy to influence another generation AND be honored for it?

I mean I’ll speak knowing how little we know of what gets said in the industry behind the scenes that may have added to it but I think it’s simple: Madonna was threatened by her, Gaga was 1000% cribbing a lot of Madonna’s not so distant history (some of TMB outfits and wigs looked like the sticky and sweet tour just a few years prior). I actually don’t see it necessarily as Madonna feeling outdated. On the contrary, Hard Candy was a big success and that was only just before Gaga came out. I think she probably felt like the industry was trying to usurp her while she was still viable with a younger version of her (for all intents and purposes) that borrowed a lot from her while—frankly—only giving her as much credit as Gaga did her other inspos like Bowie and Grace jones.

from that high level I can understand where she would be miffed. Do I think *Gaga* had to do with these things herself? Not really. I mean, she could have probably mentioned Madonna a bit more but the thing is she more or less pulled from the same references Madonna did in her heyday and less from Madonna herself. But I could see where Madonna—who has been in the game forever and had people coming for her for ages—might carry a different interpretation.

and then when BTW happened it probably felt like the right time to use the chatter to start promoting her Super Bowl (at the time still very much a legends-only affair) that would celebrate her career and launch her new album

 

a lot of people said Madonna was being graceless but I think when you remember that she was riding successes from hard candy and confessions, Madonna was hardly viewing herself as a legacy act. And so Gaga coming in and being a little clumsy from the newness of it all let veteran titan Madonna think she wasn’t as appreciative as she should be and was taking from a current act whose legacy was still in the making. I mean if we’re being honest it’s not like Gaga reached out prior to work with or meet Madonna to the best of our knowledge so again, it’s unfortunate but I could see where the specific circumstances led this to happening. People had wanted Madonna to “pass the crown” but to Madonna it was still very much on her head and there was no reason to be made to feel otherwise.

Edited 12 hours ago by Ziggy

[Gagaism 12,004]

3 hours ago, elsamars said:

Born this way video release -Feb 2011

Madonna’s comments -Jan 2012

almost 1 year later 

Oh yeah, you’re right. I misread it, thinking that were the Madonna’s comparisons in general while you’re referring to her specifically 

my bad 

[elsamars 2,288]

1 hour ago, Ziggy said:

 

from that high level I can understand where she would be miffed. Do I think *Gaga* had to do with these things herself? Not really. I mean, she could have probably mentioned Madonna a bit more but the thing is she more or less pulled from the same references Madonna did in her heyday and less from Madonna herself. But I could see where Madonna—who has been in the game forever and had people coming for her for ages—might carry a different interpretation.

 

I think the ignition point was Alejandro music video which changed her career trajectory in my opinion in a bad way. Up until that point, she was so different and unique in her own way that comparisons were more like in the lane of will she be the next most impactful pop person kind. However, that music video turned everything into copying talk. She should have never worked with Steven Klein, Madonna’s long time collaborator while referencing some of Madonna’s music videos and religious imagery. As you said, we don’t know what happened at the backstage but that might have rubbed her the wrong way.

Edited 10 hours ago by elsamars

[Ziggy 12,009]

45 minutes ago, elsamars said:

I think the ignition point was Alejandro music video which changed her career trajectory in my opinion in a bad way. Up until that point, she was so different and unique in her own way that comparisons were more like in the lane of will she be the next most impactful pop person kind. However, that music video turned everything into copying talk. She should have never worked with Steven Klein, Madonna’s long time collaborator while referencing some of Madonna’s music videos and religious imagery. As you said, we don’t know what happened at the backstage but that might have rubbed her the wrong way.

Totally. And now I adore that video; it’s actually my favorite of hers hands down. However, it definitely is what had the previously small talk references to Madonna become a bigger convo like you said. Idk people always wanna say Madonna should have been bigger and probably to some degree but I can also sympathize bc the world started treating her like she was over the hill or something meanwhile hung up and 4 minutes were not even half a decade old by the time Gaga debuted. And then this chick starts lying saying she reached out and the song is ok? I could see where Madge would be miffed even though most of the issue stemmed from the industry less than Gaga who only did small little things I could see annoying her lmfao

[Xardas 1,601]

21 hours ago, elsamars said:

I will never understand why she has a tooth gap at the end and crying

She was foreshadowing how Madonna's career was going to continue