salty like sodium 2,121 Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 11 hours ago, elijahfan said: Everyone's entitled to their opinions when it comes to art, or anything really, but to question a director's ability to deliver at his job is puzzling. How many films have any of you directed? He's an artist, so is Gaga, and they're both household names in their respective fields. They know what they're doing, and this is what they chose to deliver. Feel free to enjoy it or be disappointed, but questioning their abilities is just disrespectful. If you think you know better than the artist how they should do their art: no you don't, you should take several seats and remind yourself who's the artist and who's the audience. wow someone is taking the internet way too seriously today acting like people aren't even allowed to have expectations and discuss whether they have been met or not is... a choice. no one is saying tim burton is a bad director, the entire discussion isn't about that but whether people had higher expectations than what they received with the video or not. maybe you need to remove the fangirl goggles for a second to reread everything and realise no one is personally attacking tim burton's abilities as an artist... it's alright... everything's going to be ok. ps: people discussing art is precisely them knowing they are the audience... no one is saying burton should have filmed the video here or there and used a fisheye lense instead of a blablabla lense... literally all the comments have been from the pov of audience/consumer, not artist... so your entire point is moot... 11 hours ago, elijahfan said: There's a difference between asking if you enjoyed a video or not, or if you think a director delivered or not. If you fail to see the difference, or pretend to for the sake of having the last word in an argument, then I don't know what to tell you. in both cases you are asking for an opinion, not facts... i can ask you if you think mcdonald's is tasty. you can think (opinion) it tastes great. that doesn't make it good/healthy food... people think things all the time. trying to gatekeep that is just a slippery slope to dictatorship people are allowed to have opinions on whether they think tim burton delivered or not, and if you fail to see that, or pretend to for the sake of having the last word in an argument, then i don't know what to tell you... except that i feel sorry for you maybe. 10 hours ago, elijahfan said: Well I guess we failed to deliver as a fanbase, then Wouldn't be a first. blindly defending everything as a fan and attacking other fans is a common fan failure for sure. pretty sure both gaga and burton welcome all types of interpretations of their work. pretty sure they're also aware that not everyone will always appreciate or agree with whatever vision they had in mind. i'm also quite confident there were budgeting constraints for this project and that both would have liked to do things differently had they had unlimited time and budget. (i mean burton has other projects and gaga has an actual tour going on, it's not like they could have just filmed this non-stop for weeks). but anyway... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elijahfan 26,595 Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 (edited) 2 hours ago, salty like sodium said: wow someone is taking the internet way too seriously today acting like people aren't even allowed to have expectations and discuss whether they have been met or not is... a choice. no one is saying tim burton is a bad director, the entire discussion isn't about that but whether people had higher expectations than what they received with the video or not. maybe you need to remove the fangirl goggles for a second to reread everything and realise no one is personally attacking tim burton's abilities as an artist... it's alright... everything's going to be ok. ps: people discussing art is precisely them knowing they are the audience... no one is saying burton should have filmed the video here or there and used a fisheye lense instead of a blablabla lense... literally all the comments have been from the pov of audience/consumer, not artist... so your entire point is moot... in both cases you are asking for an opinion, not facts... i can ask you if you think mcdonald's is tasty. you can think (opinion) it tastes great. that doesn't make it good/healthy food... people think things all the time. trying to gatekeep that is just a slippery slope to dictatorship people are allowed to have opinions on whether they think tim burton delivered or not, and if you fail to see that, or pretend to for the sake of having the last word in an argument, then i don't know what to tell you... except that i feel sorry for you maybe. blindly defending everything as a fan and attacking other fans is a common fan failure for sure. pretty sure both gaga and burton welcome all types of interpretations of their work. pretty sure they're also aware that not everyone will always appreciate or agree with whatever vision they had in mind. i'm also quite confident there were budgeting constraints for this project and that both would have liked to do things differently had they had unlimited time and budget. (i mean burton has other projects and gaga has an actual tour going on, it's not like they could have just filmed this non-stop for weeks). but anyway... There are no fan goggles on here, I'm the first one to admit Tim Burton has somewhat lost his mojo a long time ago. But the overall fan reaction towards the video on the basis that it's not "Burton" enough is unfair and, frankly, laughable. I mean, did you guys want bats, skeletons and Johnny Depp + Helena Bonham Carter dancing in the background to be satisfied? You're still assuming there has to be some sort of excuse for the video to be the way it is. MAYBE that's just what Burton and Gaga wanted to do and they both delivered exactly what they wanted But add this to the list of total myths we'll be holding against Gaga for the next decade. Edited September 8 by elijahfan Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklev 1,086 Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 Sadly I didn't like the video. Nor the song. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DancingInTheShadow 17 Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 I love the start and the first verse where its a still shot with the smoke it reminds me of a horror movie like Leatherface and I love it so much as well as the pre chorus its a really pretty shot of gaga but like until the bridge like nothing really happens, and the choreography part the still shot there is kind of low quality and I wish u could get a better look but I also love the editing at the chorus there. I think Tim Burton did great just the camera shots and quality is a little lacking. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty like sodium 2,121 Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 (edited) 22 hours ago, elijahfan said: There are no fan goggles on here, I'm the first one to admit Tim Burton has somewhat lost his mojo a long time ago. But the overall fan reaction towards the video on the basis that it's not "Burton" enough is unfair and, frankly, laughable. I mean, did you guys want bats, skeletons and Johnny Depp + Helena Bonham Carter dancing in the background to be satisfied? You're still assuming there has to be some sort of excuse for the video to be the way it is. MAYBE that's just what Burton and Gaga wanted to do and they both delivered exactly what they wanted But add this to the list of total myths we'll be holding against Gaga for the next decade. What's 'laughable' is that you think people shouldn't have the right to have expected an artist who made a video like "Born This Way" collaborating with a director who is known for his unique point of view to have brought out the best in one another and really produced an artwork that would have possibly surpassed the quality of their past output. No one said they needed skeletons and Johnny Depp. But they're both creative visionaries capable of creating and shaping worlds through image and sound, and this video doesn't really do a great job at creating a new world, as the majority here seems to agree. It's also cute that you assume artists are ever in a position to do -exactly- what they want when there are is so much evidence of artists being beholden by label politics, executive decisions, budget constraints, etc. David Lynch stopped making movies because of that. Tim Burton's Superman film was killed before it even got a chance. Gaga's entire Artpop era is also another great example. It's actually extremely rare for someone to be able to do EXACTLY what they want. I think at this point in time, only Taylor Swift and Beyoncé really have that kind of authority, and even then, they also are not immune to budget or technical constraints either. They're just a bit freer than most other artists, Taylor due to her massive fanbase and guaranteed revenue giving her near total creative freedom, and Beyoncé because she owns her own record label to have that freedom. Most other artists have to play by their labels' rules. Gaga doesn't even own her music, for example. Edited September 9 by salty like sodium 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elijahfan 26,595 Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 19 hours ago, salty like sodium said: What's 'laughable' is that you think people shouldn't have the right to have expected an artist who made a video like "Born This Way" collaborating with a director who is known for his unique point of view to have brought out the best in one another and really produced an artwork that would have possibly surpassed the quality of their past output. No one said they needed skeletons and Johnny Depp. But they're both creative visionaries capable of creating and shaping worlds through image and sound, and this video doesn't really do a great job at creating a new world, as the majority here seems to agree. It's also cute that you assume artists are ever in a position to do -exactly- what they want when there are is so much evidence of artists being beholden by label politics, executive decisions, budget constraints, etc. David Lynch stopped making movies because of that. Tim Burton's Superman film was killed before it even got a chance. Gaga's entire ARTPOP era is also another great example. It's actually extremely rare for someone to be able to do EXACTLY what they want. I think at this point in time, only Taylor Swift and Beyoncé really have that kind of authority, and even then, they also are not immune to budget or technical constraints either. They're just a bit freer than most other artists, Taylor due to her massive fanbase and guaranteed revenue giving her near total creative freedom, and Beyoncé because she owns her own record label to have that freedom. Most other artists have to play by their labels' rules. Gaga doesn't even own her music, for example. Honey I have a life, we're not agreeing, let's move on. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTV 12,998 Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 visually yes but since its just a mini promo, this can pass Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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